Thread: Karzai's rival withdraws from Afghan runoff

Is this your opinion or fact? If fact then please do post legitimate links. If opinion then is definately open to criticism.

kerman,

Didn't like the Iran-Iraq War, but it wasn't Iran's fault. As for an oil economy, when you have oil, you sell it. The Shah used oil money to make himself and his friends rich and to pay the west to do for Iran what he thought was needed, Mullahs have been using the oil money to develop the Iranian industry and as for the international isolation, it has only strengthened Iran.

you're missing my point. what i'm saying is, what economic, political, or military indicators are you using to prove that iranian life is better now than it was before the ayatollahs?

and how does that balance against the more obvious disadvantages?

The Iranian people will not side with America, but if you want war you can have it, only it will not be in your best interests.

again, not the point. in this scenario, the iranian people need not side with america-- they just don't have to side with the mullahs. with ANY government, there is always some level of difference between the voice of the people and the voice of the government, but this is always stronger in an unrepresentative system.

It was the same as all the previous elections.

Disagree, they were stagged elections, their is no possible circumstance that could have brought that about. Zero transparency and an election controlled by the regime and only the regime. All announced by the grand high crackpot long before the votes were even all accounted for. Its quite obvious that the laws of physics dont apply in Iran, just the rest of the world. That fact is undisputable.

I would certainly bet that if each and every Iranian voted one vote only, in safety, without fear of reprisal and absolutely hands off from all officials, militia and henchmen, A-jad would have lost the election hands down. The people have stated he has not lived up to even one election promise he made.

Not one! And that comes from a ranking official, not someone here claiming they were because "I" as in "you" say they were.

If you can show one shed of proof, that those elections were real, that is an undeniable proof with unquestionable sources to substanciate your claim then do so. The problem is that you cant. So making such claims without proof is sensless fodder for fanboys.

Didn't like the Iran-Iraq War, but it wasn't Iran's fault. As for an oil economy, when you have oil, you sell it. The Shah used oil money to make himself and his friends rich and to pay the west to do for Iran what he thought was needed, Mullahs have been using the oil money to develop the Iranian industry and as for the international isolation, it has only strengthened Iran.

Has it really? I can post articles that come from those who know much better, your own countrymen and with the offices they hold they are 10x more credible then what you state. You make statements not prove facts.

Sanctions will hurt a little in short term but on the long term they only strengthen Iran. And Iran is not dependent on the US for anything.

*Theyre going to hurt alot more if these talks dont go well. And if we think about it Iran does depend on America for one primary thing right now as we speak. That is keeping Israel from paying you a visit that you wont soon forget.

*Sanctions are whats keeping the Iranian AF from getting parts for aircraft and airliners. Its been proven time and time again among other materials Iran cant get their hands on. All you can do is buy Russian and North Korean at your own expense.

The Iranian people will not side with America, but if you want war you can have it, only it will not be in your best interests.

We dont want the Iranian people to side with America, we just want them to be able to elect leaders that have their interest at heart free and transparent, not rhetoric, threats or terrorism at heart like you present regime has.

The government didn't control the elections, the regime did and I won't deny the system is undemocratic, but I will deny that the elections were rigged and that Mousavi has the kind of public support you guys think he has.

Utter nonsense, wether Mousavi or another won or lost the point was they were not free and transparent elections, they were rigged elections to keep anyone the Assahola could not control from power pure and simple. Your problem is in the physics of mathematics and the timing of A-jads victory announcement. Try explaining that one. Coupled with the facts that no Western media could cover the events and were ordered indoors and the communications grids shut down so no one could communicate to the outside world. Still didnt stop the people from blowing the whistle and sending videos and updates. Face it, that relic of a terrorist regime cannot keep in pace with modern technology and youth no matter how hard they try to silence the people. They failed.

In how many elections that have passed has the honesty of the Assahola every been questioned or insulted in public? None that I can recall, but many times after this election. Face it they were caught red handed and the rest of the civilized world recognized it for exactly what it was...a SHAM!

TEHRAN, Sept. 30 -- As the United States and its allies consider further sanctions against Iran over its nuclear program, opponents of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad fear that such punishment could have unintended consequences, strengthening the government's hand against domestic dissent and triggering an even harsher crackdown on political foes.

On the eve of talks Thursday in Geneva between representatives of Iran and six world powers, Iranian opposition leaders, politicians and analysts warned that new financial or other penalties would hurt ordinary Iranians rather than change the government's behavior.

Opposition leaders have denounced what they view as Ahmadinejad's antagonistic foreign policy, but they are in no position to criticize the previously undisclosed construction near Qom of a second uranium-enrichment plant -- the latest bone of contention between Iran and the West -- for fear of being targeted as traitors to a national cause: the pursuit of nuclear energy and technological advancement.

Although there is general agreement that the opposition is in a tight spot, some analysts argue that tougher sanctions could fuel public discontent over existing economic difficulties, thwarting the government's hopes of unifying people against foreign threats.

Former presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi, Iran's main political opposition leader, called Ahmadinejad's foreign policy "wrong and adventurist" this week but came out against new sanctions, saying he worried that "deprived people" would pay the highest price.

"Sanctions would not affect the government but would impose many hardships upon the people, who suffer enough as a result of the calamity of their insane rulers," Mousavi said in a statement.

Government critics and dissidents, dozens of whom are on trial on charges of fomenting unrest after Ahmadinejad's disputed June 12 reelection, probably would come under more pressure if tougher sanctions were imposed, according to politicians and analysts on both sides.

"The government will say that critics of their policies are doing the foreigners' bidding" and will use sanctions as a pretext to silence opponents, said Ali Shakouri-Rad, a leading member of the opposition Islamic Iran Participation Front.

Amir Mohebbian, an analyst who shares Ahmadinejad's ideology, agreed that "pressure on the opposition and dissidents will greatly increase if the West imposes further sanctions on Iran."

Ahmadinejad insists that as a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran has an "undeniable" right to pursue peaceful nuclear energy and to enrich uranium to guarantee an independent fuel supply for nuclear power plants.

The United States and other Western countries suspect that Iran's uranium-enrichment program is aimed at ultimately producing material for nuclear weapons. The U.N. Security Council has imposed three rounds of sanctions over the program, and last week's revelations about the Qom facility have prompted calls for stronger punishment.

Up to now, the government has been able to count on support for its nuclear stand from even its staunchest domestic critics. Before the June election, Iran's nuclear case was a nationalist rallying point for various political groups, and many Iranians supported the government's defiance of the U.N. sanctions.

Now, however, some analysts said, additional, tougher sanctions might feed unrest in big cities over the government's policies, including a post-election crackdown in which dozens of opposition protesters were killed.

The country's middle and lower classes have already been hurt by a recession that many blame on economic mismanagement. Housing prices have collapsed, banks are low on cash and inflation remains in double digits. U.N. trade sanctions are damaging Iran's small import sector, which has severe problems insuring international transactions. And Iran's tech-savvy youths increasingly resent Internet restrictions.

"The government knows if sanctions do happen, it will be the biggest sign for the opposition to prove Ahmadinejad's bad management and their own righteousness," said Mashallah Shamsolvaezin, a government critic. He said he expects Iranian negotiators to soften their approach to world powers in Thursday's meeting in Geneva.

Those closer to the government disagree. The nuclear case is nonnegotiable, Mohebbian said, and Iran is "dead serious" on the basics of its program. He predicted that Iran would focus the talks on building trust, not on suspending uranium enrichment, the main demand of the world powers.

one more point,

Sanctions will hurt a little in short term but on the long term they only strengthen Iran. And Iran is not dependent on the US for anything.

actually, a strict regimen of sanctions would all but collapse the iranian economy. as you mentioned, it is an oil economy-- and not just for export. given the way iranian oil refineries have been deteriorating, iran is very heavily dependent on oil IMPORTS.