Thread: September 11, 2001 - France is attacked, not the US

Don't worry about what the Colonel does or doesn't do. When this was discussed i asked YOU to behave BR.

You promised you would. Kindly keep your promise.

The colonel just stated he will comply with my request also, so this should be the end of it.

If it happens again, it will be the last time.

TOP HATTER, this is a good topic, there was some over reacting, it's been addressed.

Feel free to continue your discussion.

Snipe,
Thanks for the confirm.

Back to the topic: I think if France was attacked in the future, there would be a lot of "I told you so" on the part of the US. The big question is, would the US (both the population and the Congress) stand by our French allies (that's what they are after all) and send them support and succor?
Also ironically enough, how many French people perished in the European heatwave? Somewhere around 3,000 I think?
It's odd how roughly the same number of people died but it's somehow different because they didnt die all at once in a ball of fire and falling brick.

The European Allies have been at war against terror for over 50 years. The IRA, the Algiers Independence Movement, the Italian Red Brigade, etc, all told, they've suffered more than 20,000 dead.

At times, their response were brutal. Algiers was no testimony of humanity by either side. At times, their response has been to out-terror the terrorists. 21SAS beat the IRA at their own game.

During all these attacks and responses, the US remained aloft. History does not pain a good picture of US support. Even when those Marines died in Beirut, the French went in alone to exact vengence.

Americans don't really have the stomach for "fighting someone else's war". Basically the politicians send in troops, like in Lebanon or Somalia, and for whatever reason the local factions decide to remind them that they in, for intents and purposes, a war zone and bloody their noses for them. American overconfidence or asinine rules of engagement usually plays a big part of this. I've read that the Marines in Beruit had to carry unloaded weapons. Brilliant idea. Oh wait, I have a better idea. Let's deny Task Force Ranger any armored vehicles or heavy air support.
And so, once the body bags start coming home, the politicians (you know, the ones who sent them there in the first place) run for cover, the media splashes horrible images on the covers of magazines (remember CWO Michael Durant on the cover of US News & World Report, Time and Newsweek, all at the same time?) and the public screams for an explanation. Finally, one of the last acts of the drama shows the troops being pulled out.
After Vietnam, the American public will tolerate only 2 kinds of military action: Very quick "wars" such as Grenada and Panama or direct responses to direct attacks on American soil or installations, like Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan. Operation Desert Shield was protested at first but as soon as it became obvious how well Desert Storm and Desert Sabre were going, it became a "quick war" and so acceptable to most Americans. Iraqi Freedom was vigorously protested but once again, after Baghdad fell, the protests subsided. Another "quick war". (Which is still ongoing as more and more troops die trying to rebuild the country).

I think i have the same thots as you guys.
Since its America, it got all the support from the world, the CAR states, Middle Eastern states, Pakistan and even Russia and China. China joined the war on terror coz its facing the same adversary in its northern areas.

I dont think how much of this would be a reality if France is attacked. I guess Pakistan might support them for defence deals, but CAR states, Russia, UK i dont think they would be willing to fight French war.

But i'm pretty sure that USA and Canada will support the French. For some reason i always think UK is not fond of France and vice versa. Also not sure about Germany.

Just my thought!

I hope noone misunderstood my post to be OVERLY disparaging towards the French. (My apologies to the Colonel if you thought that.) I Basically meant what I said, although in a rather flippant manner, I'll admit. Chirac was VERY quick to come to the U.S. to show his support after 9/11.

From what little I've been able to glean about the french, I wouldn't want one of their "Special" teams after me! (I like breathing.)

They seem to do a lot of public hand-wringing and such, but when it comes to real threats, they are nothing if not pragmatic in their approach, and quiet.

The real fact is the U.S. and France have a long history, and I believe when the brown stuff really hits the fan for either one of us, we know we'll be there for each other.

So they didn't support us in OIF, I'm not sure we should have gone in either. (Although once the fur started flyin' Dubya had my unconditional support.) This is just one of a series of arguements over 2 centuries of alliance.

Am I wrong about this Colonel? (Not being confrontational, I just want to know what you think.)

Can't tell you about the French public. The closest I got was Brussels, NATO HQ. I speak French because it's one of those stamping the ticket things (and I grew up in Ottawa where half the girls are French-Canadian - you get the point).

However, the people I served with, the FFL, the para-cmdos, were just as arrogant as any other soldiers. They'll disparage about how bad the Americans, Canadians, Brits, and even each other are (the para-cmdos don't like the FFL and vice versa).

I didn't take your jib seriously. I usually can tell who is joking and who doesn't know the facts. After consistent posts about how bad the French is, there is a certain breaking point, especially when the French saved my ass more than once.

French ops are inherantly clandistine. They don't want their public to know. FREBAT fought with us at Medak pocket and though Ottawa has acknowledged the battle (the largest the Canadians had fought since the Korean War), Paris has not done the same.

Very few people today knows about the FFL destroying the Lybian Army in Chad (one of those Qaddafy's Greater Lybia dreams that went sour).

FREBAT broke the seige at Sarajevo. French para-cmdos made the deepest penetration into Kosovo when the 3JA left. The French division made decisive contact in the hook during the Kuwait War.

However, all these events are not well known. Not even the French willingly acknowlege them.

From what I know about the French. If they want to do something, there is no debate. They just do it. They don't even allow the public to know about it or if they did, it was usually too late for the public to do anything about it. If they don't want to do something, they let the public debate and since the very nature of French society is to argue, they'll argue forever and thus, no action is to be taken.

(and I grew up in Ottawa where half the girls are French-Canadian - you get the point).

Body hair and body odor? :D

Seriously though, how were they?

From what I know about the French. If they want to do something, there is no debate. They just do it. They don't even allow the public to know about it or if they did, it was usually too late for the public to do anything about it. If they don't want to do something, they let the public debate and since the very nature of French society is to argue, they'll argue forever and thus, no action is to be taken.

All French-bashing aside, I have always been envious of the French for just that reason. Compared to most countries, the French are world-class when it comes to decisive action, and the French public understands why this is so.

Originally posted by ironman420
Body hair and body odor? :D

Seriously though, how were they?

Hehehehehehehehehehe

I just love sometimes how people are going to eat their words.

My wife is French-Canadian.

Originally posted by TopHatter
All French-bashing aside, I have always been envious of the French for just that reason. Compared to most countries, the French are world-class when it comes to decisive action, and the French public understands why this is so.

It helps if you don't have to publish a casualty list, the FFL, when the shit hits the fan and you lose people.

Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
Hehehehehehehehehehe

I just love sometimes how people are going to eat their words.

My wife is French-Canadian.

Well I know for a fact that European women in general are less apt to shave their armpits or trim their pubic region as much as American women do.

I can't say I know what French-Canadian women do, but Canadian hygiene habits seem to reflect that of Americans.

(I live about 60 miles north of Duluth, MN, btw)

Yeah, I've heard that's slowly changing though. European women are starting to do the "North American" thing when it comes to body hair. Any Europeans heard this?
(Maybe we should start a poll for body hair preferences on women :D )

Originally posted by TopHatter
Yeah, I've heard that's slowly changing though. European women are starting to do the "North American" thing when it comes to body hair. Any Europeans heard this?
(Maybe we should start a poll for body hair preferences on women :D )

Probably because the US is the largest market for beauty products in the world and all of those European models have to conform to American standards of beauty, thus influencing European women.