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Thread: Drug Wars & How Best to Tackle Them

  1. #46
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    omg, you still don,t get it do you?
    you kick drug dealers from your block, they occupy next one, but they will still exsict.
    the answer is to remove the sole reason they exsict. you got go after not individual dealer, but after their habitat.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

  2. #47
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    I am fully aware that criminals move on to areas that give them the least trouble, but tell me this. If everyone employed the grass roots "not in my back yard" philosophy where would these terrorists go? I am also fully aware that many areas people will not force the gangs and the drugs out of their neighborhoods. If these people do not want to stand up and fight for their liberties, rights, and way of life, they simply get what they deserve and all the problems that go with it. To say that if the other part of town has gangs and drugs so we may as well do the same is nothing but garbage.

    Dead dealers or gang members do not occupy the next block. Even if I let them live to go somewhere else it is not up to me to clean up every neighborhood in the country. I have done my job by cleaning up my neighborhood as it is everyone else's job to clean up theirs. Is this really a difficult concept for you? To be responsible for your own neighborhood? Lastly, even if we all get stupid and legalize all drugs, the gangs and people who are dealing will still be on the street causing problems. They are not going anywhere by legalizing drugs. To think so is pure fantasy.

  3. #48
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    Go back and read post 13.
    Add mushrooms and I'm happy.


    Shoot gang members on sight. They can be recognized by their uniform.

  4. #49
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    They are not going anywhere by legalizing drugs. To think so is pure fantasy.
    unfortunatly no, i don,t see legalization any time soon, neither i see you or anyone get a killpermit to hunt drug dealers.
    after all they just stay and sell, those who are addicted, come to them. why don,t you just wack users, after all if nobody is buying dealers will dissappear, right?
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

  5. #50
    Senior Contributor chakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    Add mushrooms and I'm happy.
    Damn Hippie...

    Add X to the list too then if we are discussing exceptions. :D

  6. #51
    Senior Contributor chakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    Lastly, even if we all get stupid and legalize all drugs, the gangs and people who are dealing will still be on the street causing problems. They are not going anywhere by legalizing drugs. To think so is pure fantasy.

    The way i would do it was for the government to licence the production of drugs and tax the living shite out of them. Privatelly owned, government accredited weed and coca farms, ecstacy made in factories using pharmaceutical grade equipment, made a lot safer than any product made in someones backyard could possibly be. Sold through drugstores with the whole industry regulated and taxed but with the retail price still lower than what the gangs can compete with.

    Then you introduce laws that make the 'illegal supply of drugs' an offence even though the drugs themselves are legal and put in draconian laws for the offenders. Your basically making the carrot for the dealers a lot smaller and the stick a lot larger. Why sell coke at 10% the profit they used to when getting cought trafficking the stuff would put them away for 25 years? More money can be made driving a cab or being a labourer, slowly you would see the gangs being hurt financially and thats what really gets them.

    But at the same time anyone cought commercially distributing meth and heroin will get either 25yrs in lockup if the information he/she can give is worthwile or the needle if it isnt.

  7. #52
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chakos View Post
    Damn Hippie...

    Add X to the list too then if we are discussing exceptions. :D
    Hmm. Never liked that one. Way too recreational for me.

    But I agree. The quality of the black market pills is disastrous. Some of them contain battery acid, glass and worse.

    Pill testing kits work only for some of the malignant substances, they won't tell you if there's glass dust in your small round sources of party energy.

    And whether it's legal or illegal, people will keep doing it. It's an integral part of youth culture (some of it).
    And you can't distillize culture.

  8. #53
    Senior Contributor chakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    Hmm. Never liked that one. Way too recreational for me.

    But I agree. The quality of the black market pills is disastrous. Some of them contain battery acid, glass and worse.

    Pill testing kits work only for some of the malignant substances, they won't tell you if there's glass dust in your small round sources of party energy.

    And whether it's legal or illegal, people will keep doing it. It's an integral part of youth culture (some of it).
    And you can't distillize culture.
    They tend to be a little bit better here in Australia.. but not much.

    See the guys that make the pills never learned the same lesson as the coke cartels. They realised early on that cocaine was not just a drug it was a brand. People would pay more for a 'good' drug so not only did they market it really well but they actually have quite decent production standards. They realise that the only way they can have the demand and the price they want is to bring a product onto the market that has a fantastic reputation amongst the users.

  9. #54
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chakos View Post
    They tend to be a little bit better here in Australia.. but not much.

    See the guys that make the pills never learned the same lesson as the coke cartels. They realised early on that cocaine was not just a drug it was a brand. People would pay more for a 'good' drug so not only did they market it really well but they actually have quite decent production standards. They realise that the only way they can have the demand and the price they want is to bring a product onto the market that has a fantastic reputation amongst the users.
    Yes, in decent circles the drug traffic takes the form of the free market. But it's not always the case. On big festivals one can print a one-time cargo of bad of simply plain poisonous pills and sell them. Especially to younger people, who do not know a lot about the drug and how to choose the good ones.

    Since the prices for pills go about 400% of the average street price on festivals, one can make good money on pressing the dust from your garage into pills and selling it.

  10. #55
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    Add mushrooms and I'm happy.


    Shoot gang members on sight. They can be recognized by their uniform.
    Shrooms are natural and so far has not been a problem in my world so I will think about it. You really should find better uses for your time however. I enjoy life so much better while in an "unaltered state".

    Not all gangs proudly show their colors. Just like any other hunting trip, know your target.

  11. #56
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omon View Post
    unfortunatly no, i don,t see legalization any time soon, neither i see you or anyone get a killpermit to hunt drug dealers.
    after all they just stay and sell, those who are addicted, come to them. why don,t you just wack users, after all if nobody is buying dealers will dissappear, right?
    A dealer will only find something else to peddle if the market for one drug or all drugs fades. Many dealers have the ability to go legit, car salesmen for instance. They just prefer to be terrorists.

    Users quite often have given up their right to choose rationally for themselves as the addiction takes over. In the case of Meth, the brain is permanently altered and the post user is but a shell of his former self. When you do too much meth you do not get to go back to where you begin. You are stuck at wherever the drug left you. Many entered the bonds of drug use willingly, while many did not. Even though I have no sympathy for the trials and tribulations of addicts I know at some point drugs over took their life and many will never fully get back what they have lost. Users bare some responsibility, but one has to ask what would be different if said person never had the ability to do the drugs in the first place? I consider drug addicts like AIDS patients. Once you have it you got it for life so it is much better not to have AIDS in the first place than to try to deal with it after the fact. The same with drugs and addiction.

  12. #57
    Professor (retired) Senior Contributor Merlin's Avatar
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    We are not winning the global war on drugs.

    UN admits 'losing war on drugs'

    Mar 12, 2009 [Aljazeera] The United Nations says it is losing its global war on drugs.

    Anti-drug policies have in fact indirectly created "a criminal market of macro-economic size", said a UN report presented at a global drug conference in Vienna on Wednesday.

    Citing the report, Antonio Maria Costa, the head of the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, said the estimated value of the illicit global drug trade had ballooned to more than $300bn a year.

    "We need law enforcement. But the heart of the matter is to bring back health, prevention, treatment, to the centre of drugs control," he said on the sidelines of the ministerial-level meeting the UN Commission on Narcotic Drugs conference.

    "It's not done in a lot of countries."

    The conference in Vienna was to review the results of a decade-long war on drugs launched by a UN General Assembly session (Ungass).

    A European Commission report published on Tuesday said it had "found no evidence that the global drug problem was reduced during the Ungass period from 1998 to 2007". ...
    To understand better what $300bn means, as a comparison, the annual revenue of Mexico is about $257bn, and the annual expenditure is also $257bn.
    Last edited by Merlin; 12 Mar 09, at 09:52.

  13. #58
    Senior Reader Senior Contributor entropy's Avatar
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    Well, it's all because you can't win this war.

  14. #59
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin View Post
    We are not winning the global war on drugs.

    UN admits 'losing war on drugs'



    To understand better what $300bn means, as a comparison, the annual revenue of Mexico is about $257bn, and the annual expenditure is also $257bn.
    What war has the UN ever won? If anything this only further proves that throwing money at the problem does not work. you need the iron will of the people who are willing to get their hands dirty to get any job done.

  15. #60
    Professor (retired) Senior Contributor Merlin's Avatar
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    This is the situation of the drug war in Mexico and at the border with the US.

    Fears in U.S. drug war will destabilize Mexico

    [QUOTE]Mar 12, 2009 Washington -[SFChronicle] -- Concern about a potential failed state - not Pakistan, not Somalia, but California's neighbor Mexico - is mounting in Washington as an all-out war involving 45,000 Mexican military personnel fails to quell rising drug violence that is spilling from such Mexican cities as Tijuana into the United States.

    An estimated 6,290 drug-related murders occurred in Mexico last year, six times the standard definition of a civil war, said Vanda Felbab-Brown, a leading scholar on the issue at the Brookings Institution.

    Rep. Mike Thompson, D-St. Helena, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, described beheadings of Mexican mayors and police chiefs and said Mexican drug gangs have infiltrated the cannabis fields on both public and private lands in Northern California. He said Mexican villagers are kidnapped and smuggled into the northern coastal forests to grow pot, leaving environmental wreckage in their wake. ...

    The U.S. Joint Forces Command called Mexico and Pakistan the world's two most critical states in danger of failing. While cautioning that Mexico has not reached Pakistan's level of instability, it reported that Mexico's "government, its politicians, police and judicial infrastructure are all under sustained assault and pressure by criminal gangs and drug cartels." ...[/
    QUOTE]

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