Armenian Genocide Reparations

**TTL** · 06 Oct 08,, 19:36

First of all I want to highlight that this threat is definetly and absolutely not about if the genocide took place or not, so please do not argue about it. What I am interested in is your thoughts about if Turkey and Armenia somehow agree on the matter that the genocide actually took place what kind of reparations the armenians would or should demand?

As a Turkish citizen I personally would never accept any territorial claims but think that economic compansation can be possible.

**Tarek Morgen** · 06 Oct 08,, 19:52

afaik there are no claims of Armenia on Turkish lands (except some nationlist loonies, but there are always some of those). While there are people who demand fomr of ecomonical reparations I would think that a honest apology would be more important (since I doubt there are many survivors left).

**Officer of Engineers** · 06 Oct 08,, 21:14

I want to re-iterate that I do not want to repeat the long repeated arguments about that genocide. However, is there a case before the courts? Either domestically or internationally?

**Walking Dead** · 06 Oct 08,, 23:28

Originally Posted by TTL

First of all I want to highlight that this threat is definetly and absolutely not about if the genocide took place or not, so please do not argue about it. What I am interested in is your thoughts about if Turkey and Armenia somehow agree on the matter that the genocide actually took place what kind of reparations the armenians would or should demand?

As a Turkish citizen I personally would never accept any territorial claims but think that economic compansation can be possible.

Why would you want to pay, no matter how trivial a reparations, for something you do not believe occured? Or am I missing something here?

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

I want to re-iterate that I do not want to repeat the long repeated arguments about that genocide. However, is there a case before the courts? Either domestically or internationally?

Sir, I honestly do not see, based on the verbiage of the question, as to how we can possibly avoid another squabble on whether the genocide took place or not. I am asserting that based on my view that any reparations, including the amount are based (at least on some level) on the events that took place.

**cyppok** · 06 Oct 08,, 23:36

Originally Posted by TTL

First of all I want to highlight that this threat is definetly and absolutely not about if the genocide took place or not, so please do not argue about it. What I am interested in is your thoughts about if Turkey and Armenia somehow agree on the matter that the genocide actually took place what kind of reparations the armenians would or should demand?

As a Turkish citizen I personally would never accept any territorial claims but think that economic compansation can be possible.

Probably some sort of assessment, to the amount of wealth lost with bodily injury and life lost payed out to descendants and republic of Armenia. That would be my guess. You would also have to be willing to actually give back land/property not to the country but to people whom might claim it or at least the actual monetary value of today. This would be a very large settlement because it would have to be an honest one and those are hard. Imagine 1 family that survived had ownership of a block of land/property in central Istanbul hypothetically.

The question you pose is odd if you want to pay reparations it occurred ergo acceptance.

**TTL** · 07 Oct 08,, 05:43

Why would you want to pay, no matter how trivial a reparations, for something you do not believe occured? Or am I missing something here?

I would like to have normal relations between Turkey and Armenia and therefore we should reach an agreement. I believe to be able to do that both sides should give concessions.

I am asserting that based on my view that any reparations, including the amount are based (at least on some level) on the events that took place.

For the sake of argument I accept that Turkey and Armenia agrees on genocide happened (though try to be realistic).

Also how is the amount of compansation should be decided? An international body or between Turkey and Armenia?

**Ray** · 07 Oct 08,, 06:20

This issue is important to the US.

It's resolution will allow a shorter and safer route for Baku Oil!

**~~neyzen~~** · 07 Oct 08,, 06:59

what kind of reparations the armenians would or should demand?

Wrong question. Armenians alone can not demand anything. We define the crimes / compensations. After that we can demand from each other. Question is how will Armenia pay compensation? What can each side do if the compensation are not paid?

**TTL** · 07 Oct 08,, 08:57

This issue is important to the US.

It's resolution will allow a shorter and safer route for Baku Oil!

It is also very important for Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan. There is so much to gain from cooperation between those three instead of conflict that I don't really understand why we so stubbornly hate each other.

**cyppok** · 09 Oct 08,, 04:40

Originally Posted by neyzen

Wrong question. Armenians alone can not demand anything. We define the crimes / compensations. After that we can demand from each other. Question is how will Armenia pay compensation? What can each side do if the compensation are not paid?

confused:
Are you sure your reading what you wrote correctly? Perhaps a dictionary or a google translator tool would be better use?

Armenia doesn't have to demand anything they can give an outline of what they want ergo this, that, and the other. With Turkey either agreeing or accepting the status quo, since it has no leverage on Armenia. (you can disagree as much as you like but its true at this point in time)

**~~neyzen~~** · 09 Oct 08,, 08:15

Armenia doesn't have to demand anything they can give an outline of what they want ergo this, that, and the other. With Turkey either agreeing or accepting the status quo, since it has no leverage on Armenia.

Are you kidding? If the borders are fully opened... It is huge thing for Armenia but Turkey only strengthen her hand for energy lines.

**TTL** · 09 Oct 08,, 08:23

Armenia doesn't have to demand anything they can give an outline of what they want ergo this, that, and the other. With Turkey either agreeing or accepting the status quo, since it has no leverage on Armenia.

Turkey actually has leverage on Armenia since we are their neigbours. Mutual trade will benefit armenians even more than the turks. They won't have to keep worrying about a hostile country on their flank in addition to ongoing war with azeris. And also I don't think that they like russians guarding their borders who knows what Russia may demand in return?

**TTL** · 09 Oct 08,, 08:31

You would also have to be willing to actually give back land/property not to the country but to people whom might claim it or at least the actual monetary value of today.

I think monetary compasation would be much more realistic since after a century it is really impossible to evacuate people from land/property that used to belong armenians.

**cyppok** · 10 Oct 08,, 02:53

Turkey has no leverage, because it has to court Armenia to accept terms of reconciliation not of its own making.

Reconciliation does not mean there will be a pipeline going through Armenia, in fact Turkey could get nothing energy wise. (very likely)

However the re-integration of regional markets would create efficiency and economic benefits for all participants ergo does make sense energy or no energy.

**deli_dumrul** · 10 Oct 08,, 07:11

Originally Posted by cyppok

Turkey has no leverage, because it has to court Armenia to accept terms of reconciliation not of its own making.

Armenia has no leverage, period... Because EU is not going to happen. Not only because of the public referendum requirements regarding the Turkish accession, but also because 60% of the Turkish population is against the EU. I am sure it has increased even more after the recent PKK attacks.

Bloomberg.com: Europe

Politicians who are pushing for this treason have already signed their death penalties. Just wait and see...

Originally Posted by cyppok

Reconciliation does not mean there will be a pipeline going through Armenia, in fact Turkey could get nothing energy wise. (very likely)

Armenia is already eliminated from the energy scene.

Despite the war, Baku-Tbilisi-Kars railroad construction is in full scale and it will be the sole transportation route linking Central Asia, Caucus and Black Sea / Mediterranean Sea.

Feasibility studies have already begun on the Medstream project which will link Turkey and Israel. Even India is part of the plan.

Turkey-Israel agree to start works on pipeline project

Samsun-Ceyhan crude oil pipeline is also under planning to feed the Medstream line, thanks to Russia.

Originally Posted by cyppok

However the re-integration of regional markets would create efficiency and economic benefits for all participants ergo does make sense energy or no energy.

Yes, and Armenia will not be in that market.

Still don't believe me? Watch them acknowledge the situation themselves:

YouTube - Speaks to Armenian Diaspora: Dr. Henry Astarjian PART 1 of 2
YouTube - Part 2 Dr H Astarjian TURKEY TERRIFIED of TREATY OF SEVRES

Let's see what Obama can do for them

)