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Thread: Imperialism?

  1. #31
    Senior Contributor Samudra's Avatar
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    Tarek

    While it is TRUE that the British did give us Indians a few things like the railways , schools and whatever you think is good or for that matter even if you let it be that anything given by the British is good including the bullets Gen.Dyer gave us , tell me how many were "given" for the well being of the people ?

    The author of the article is so happy with his preoccupation that , nothing worthwhile existed in the later colonies before colonisation.Moghul India was very wealthy but for its navy and overseas trades.It was for the wealth and supplies did the west come here and certainly not "for emancipation of the 'natives' " .

    The question is , do the end results justify the intent ?
    The intent being to suck off all together all the wealth and resources a colony could contain , and the end result being today a few very colonies on their path to over take once their so called 'masters'.

    The anti-western bias is certainly evident , but i for one would be happy if the writers propagating anti-western ideas just point out the original intent and explain how such intent is horrible and a very inhuman instead of the toeing the communist line of 'capitalism' and 'imperialism' with their prejudice against the west.

    Imagine this :

    Would we be better civilised to say that we thank the british for all they gave us , which has put us on a path to one of the worlds leading economies ?

  2. #32

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    Sammy

    You ask a super question of the evil West :"tell me how many were "given" for the well being of the people ?"

    I submit that we may gauge for the well being of the people by a single idea, the idea to provide education to Indians.

    I am very curious that you have not posed the same question of native posterity - why is that? Is it because you expect no answer from them?

    If the Idea of India is for the well beoing of the people, then thank western imperialism for the idea of India, No Shah, No Sultan, No Maharaja ever had the courage of conviction, organization or technology, for that ambition. Western imperialism, did.

    Then you ask:
    "The question is , do the end results justify the intent ?
    The intent being to suck off all together all the wealth and resources a colony could contain , and the end result being today a few very colonies on their path to over take once their so called 'masters'."

    Reality does not support the premises you offer, especially with regard to India - If you will look at trade between India and England, espoecially after the mutiny and till independence, you will find that the English ran deficits - now this does not mean that they did not make more in taxes, but what it does mean is that we not use rhetoric as premise, it will simply generate more errors.

    The "intent" you claim, you have failed to establish - "path of their masters"? Yara, you heard of global economy? Cash crops?

    You add:
    "The anti-western bias is certainly evident , but i for one would be happy if the writers propagating anti-western ideas just point out the original intent and explain how such intent is horrible and a very inhuman instead of the toeing the communist line of 'capitalism' and 'imperialism' with their prejudice against the west.

    Hmmm, What do you think was the "original intent" of the English witgh regard to education in India??


    "Imagine this :

    Would we be better civilised to say that we thank the british for all they gave us , which has put us on a path to one of the worlds leading economies ?"

    I don't know about "better civilized", but certainly we would be acknowledging the complex matrix we are a part of, it would also add a measure of maturity to ourselves and our abilty to deal truthfully with our experience -- in that sense the promise of human liberation will at least be available for more to realize and define for themselves.
    _____________________

    when they make no laws but what they themselves and their posterity must be subject to; when they can give no money, but what they must pay their share of; when they can do no mischief, but what must fall upon their own heads in common with their countrymen; their principals may expect then good laws, little mischief, and much frugality

  3. #33
    Senior Contributor Samudra's Avatar
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    "idea to provide education to Indians."

    The idea behind providing "education" to Indians is to create a pool of 'learned' idiots whose 'services' they could make good use of in the civil administrations.Then there were missionaries out here for 'soul harvesting'.
    They built scores of schools too.Do pay attention to a few voices who are asking for a reform in the current school systems in India.

    "f the Idea of India is for the well beoing of the people, then thank western imperialism for the idea of India, No Shah, No Sultan, No Maharaja ever had the courage of conviction, organization or technology, for that ambition. Western imperialism, did."

    Tarek , if i humbly state that you read more about Indias history rather than indulge in ignorant rants like the above.I can count so many Shahs and Sultans and Maharajas , who truly believed in the well being of the people.
    Do you want examples ?

    If you would say they were exceptions , why wouldnt you attribute the same to the wests good but very few deeds ?

    "you will find that the English ran deficits "

    Again , you only look at what they throw at you.Do we also count the number of men India offered to fight in the wars for the British too ?
    These are the resources a colony can offer.

    There is much more than the "trade" you mention.Last time i checked it was the East India TRADING company that colonised India.

    The name means its a trading company and they did *anything* with utter disregard for the locals,their customs or their livelyhoods for that.

    Care to check how many Indian weavers had their thumbs chopped off ? why did the British had to be so worried about the "swadeshi" movements that asked people to buy local stuff ?

  4. #34

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    "Do you want examples ? "

    Yes, I think you should make a strong case that the Moghuls and Maharajas had plans for the well being of their subject/serfs and that these were at least on a par with what the English offered.

    If Indian education produces "learned idiots", can hopes you will not avail yourself of that education.

    Yes, Please make a coherent, strong case to support the suggestion that the peoples we today know as "Indians" would have been better served by their Moghul overlords and assorted Maharajas - please detail the variety of policy options that had been developed to create a single nation of India, and do detail the variety of policies designed for the "well being" of the subject/serf.

    _____________________

    when they make no laws but what they themselves and their posterity must be subject to; when they can give no money, but what they must pay their share of; when they can do no mischief, but what must fall upon their own heads in common with their countrymen; their principals may expect then good laws, little mischief, and much frugality

  5. #35
    Senior Contributor Samudra's Avatar
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    Tarek
    Please read the edicts of asoka , the reforms of Sher Shah , the number of tanks built by Chola rulers of the south , the ideas of Tipu Sultan and many more.

    You could also read about the edicts of Kharavela , how raja raja chola rebuilt the irrigation canals of the kaveri , how a certain chola avoided customs duties on imports(our economy was indeed sophisticated as that).

    Aurangazeb indeed built himself a chota mosque inside the red fort so as to avoid traffic jams daily when he used to go to pray in the jama masjid.

    Do you want detailed type-outs about how they did have the benefit of their subjects in their hearts ?

    Examples are galore , only you choose not to read them.

  6. #36

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    Sammy

    As I suspected, you are more wind than substance. Citing eddicts and comparing them policies designed to administer the entire subcontinent is simply comparing apples to oranges.

    BUt you don't have to be real, you can choose to cite any variety of edicts, but you cannot demonstrate is that any Shah, Sultan or Maharaja designed policy for the "well being" of subject/serfs that can compare to the scale of that the Imperial English introduced -- in fact that is the reason why even today, the "burden" the English carried, is acknowledged; by those who are more interested in truth.
    _____________________

    when they make no laws but what they themselves and their posterity must be subject to; when they can give no money, but what they must pay their share of; when they can do no mischief, but what must fall upon their own heads in common with their countrymen; their principals may expect then good laws, little mischief, and much frugality

  7. #37
    Senior Contributor Samudra's Avatar
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    Tarek
    What i have , either substance or wind is immaterial.

    So far , i have read a bit on history.What i find is asoka ,harsha,the cholas , sher shah , the moghuls and many are all applauded by historians to have implemented several measures for the well being of their subjects.

    No source i have so far read denied asoka the credit for his policies that were 'implemented' , nor did any source stop short of expressing wonder at how the great Sher Shah had the administrative set up of his kingdom reformed to a great extent.Same stands good for many others too.

    It doesnt matter , nor does it make any difference to events that occured centuries ago ,just because one person or the likes of a kind of a person ,decide that the imperial English is the best of all.

    To say that only the imperial English can lay claim to all the good that has befallen this sub-continent is , in my opinion , racist.

  8. #38

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    Sammy

    The argument is not whether any native potentate had ideas for the betterment of his subject/serfs, the argument is whether any of these ideas rivaled those of the English - after all, do you usually argue with success??

    "To say that only the imperial English can lay claim to all the good that has befallen this sub-continent is , in my opinion , racist"

    Oh boy, first of all no claim to the extent that all good came only with the imperial Englsih has been made by me or Ejaz Haider - its a straw man argument you hope to engage in, it demonstrates the weakness of your position, that you do not even argue from any strength of your position, and instead misrepresent an opposing idea.

    The idea is really simple, namely, that we derived much good from the imperial experience, and especially from the English -- that while the experience of western imperialism had it's negatives, it was overall very positive --- the charge made against the English in India is that they were "racists" - - imagine what sense such a charge makes in the cultural context of the ideas of Zaat/Jaat??

    Yaar, all we have to do is be fair - no one has suggested that the experience was panacea and the best thing since sliced white bread - only saying that the experience allowed us to recreate ourselves, to be more than who and what we were.

    BTW - Is agriculture the selection of certain qualities over others? Is the same true of animal husbandry? Do societies also adopt/choose values as a kind of selection?

    Who forced the Indian to accept the policies and the values inherent in the English system in India? No one, English system and it's value base found acceptance by a majority of Indians, even the independence movement was infused by those values.
    _____________________

    when they make no laws but what they themselves and their posterity must be subject to; when they can give no money, but what they must pay their share of; when they can do no mischief, but what must fall upon their own heads in common with their countrymen; their principals may expect then good laws, little mischief, and much frugality

  9. #39
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    What a crock...

    The affect that imperialism has had is basically the opposite of what Tarek is postulating.

    Colonized countries were taken specifically for resources. The controlling power made SURE that the colonies would not develop to the point where they could make use of their own resources and prosper on their own.

    A good, recent example of this is Iran. Back in the 50s, Iran HAD a progressive democratic government under Prime Minister Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh. He kicked the British out, taking back control of Iran's oil. He then set his sights on building the infrastructure and manufacturing base required to bring Iran into the 20th century and out of third world status. Dr. Mossadegh was a staunch supporter of the USA and wanted to model Iran after the USA.

    Instead of just exporting crude, Iran would be able to use the oil to produce goods for its own use and trade abroad. The USA didn't like this idea one bit. It wanted the crude so IT could produce the goods. So, the USA then backa coup, threw democracy out of Iran and installed a brutal dictator that would go along with its plans - the Shah.

    Of course, today the government, through its cronies in the media, pounds into people's heads that Islam just naturally hates the freedoms of western society and thats why the middle east hates the USA so much. Fact is, The western powers have PLENTY of culpability for the current state of affairs in the middle east. They did everything they could to keep the middle east backwards and impoverished in order to keep power and wealth for themselves.

    If you think Imperialism is such a boon, how about letting Russia take over the USA? According to your (so called) logic, that would be a great thing for America!

    Imperialism is a great and wonderful thing - as long as you're at the butt end of the rifle.

  10. #40
    Ray
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    Maccaulay brought English education to India. His reasons are below.

    We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, [COLOR=Red]but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect. [/COLOR]
    From Thomas Babington Macaulay, "Minute of 2 February 1835 on Indian Education," Macaulay, Prose and Poetry, selected by G. M. Young (Cambridge MA: Harvard University Press, 1957), pp-721-24,729.

    The English themselves ridiculed them as WOGs (Westernised Oriental Gentlemen). WOG is a deregatory word like words that you cannot use on this board to describe a race because it is not politically correct.

    It is upto you to decide if being a WOG is emancipation.
    Last edited by Ray; 27 Jan 05, at 17:51.

  11. #41
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    I wonder if Japan could be classified as 'backward' because they have not been colonised and without the 'advantage' of western civilisation.

    Therefore, it is a moot point.

  12. #42
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    Colonial Education

    What is colonial education?

    The process of colonization involves one nation or territory taking control of another nation or territory either through the use of force or by acquisition. As a by-product of colonization, the colonizing nation implements its own form of schooling within their colonies. Two scholars on colonial education, Gail P. Kelly and Philip G. Altbach, help define the process as an attempt "to assist in the consolidation of foreign rule" (Kelly and Altbach 1).

    The purpose of colonial education

    The idea of assimilation is important when dealing with colonial education. Assimilation involves those who are colonized being forced to conform to the cultures and traditions of the colonizers. Gauri Viswanathan points out that "cultural assimilation (is)...the most effective form of political action" (Viswanthan 85). She continues with the argument that "cultural domination works by consent and often precedes conquest by force" (85). Colonizing governments realize that they gain strength not necessarily through physical control, but through mental control. This mental control is implemented through a central intellectual location, the school system. Kelly and Altbach state that "colonial schools,...sought to extend foreign domination and economic exploitation of the colony" (2). They find that "education in...colonies seems directed at absorption into the metropole and not separate and dependent development of the colonized in their own society and culture" (4). The process is an attempt to strip the colonized people away from their indigenous learning structures and draw them toward the structures of the colonizers.

    Much of the reasoning that favors such a learning system comes from supremacist ideas of leader colonizers. Thomas B. Macaulay asserts his viewpoints about a British colony, India, in an early nineteenth century speech. Macaulay insists that he has "never found one among them [Orientalists, an opposing political group] who could deny that a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India and Arabia". He continues stating, "It is, no exaggeration to say, that all the historical information which has been collected from all the books written in Sanscrit language is less valuable than what may be found in the most paltry abridgments used at preparatory schools in England". The ultimate goal of colonial education might be deduced from the following statement by Macaulay: "We must at present do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a class of persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, in morals, and in intellect." While all colonizers may not have shared Macaulay's lack of respect for the existing systems of the colonized, they do share the idea that education is important in facilitating the assimilation process.

    The impact of colonial education

    Often, the implementation of a new education system leaves those who are colonized with a lack of identity and a limited sense of their past. The indigenous history and customs once practiced and observed slowly slip away. The colonized become hybrids of two vastly different cultural systems. Colonial education creates a blurring that makes it difficult to differentiate between the new, enforced ideas of the colonizers and the formerly accepted native practices. Ngugi Wa Thiong'o, a citizen of the once colonized Kenya, displays his anger toward the isolationist feelings colonial education causes. He asserts that the process "annihilate(s) a people¹s belief in their names, in their languages, in their environment, in their heritage of struggle, in their unity, in their capacities and ultimately in themselves. It makes them see their past as one wasteland of non-achievement and it makes them want to distance themselves from that wasteland. It makes them want to identify with that which is furthest removed from themselves" (Decolonising the Mind 3).

    Not only does colonial education eventually create a sense of wanting to disassociate with native heritage, but it affects the individual and the sense of self-confidence. Thiong'o believes that "...education, far from giving people the confidence in their ability and capacities to overcome obstacles or to become masters of the laws governing external nature as human beings tends to make them feel their inadequacies and their ability to do anything about the condition of their lives" (The Global Education Process).

    The decolonization process

    In order to eliminate the harmful, lasting effects of colonial education, post-colonial nations or territories must remove the sense of nothingness that is often present. Thiong'o insists that "To decolonize our minds we must not see our own experiences as little islands that are not connected with other processes" (The Global Education Process). Post-colonial education must reverse the former reality of "education as a means of mystifying knowledge and hence reality" (The Global Education Process). A new education structure boosts the identity of a liberated people and unites previously isolated individuals.

    Case study

    Kelly and Altbach define "classical colonialism" as the process when one separate nation controls another separate nation (3). However, another form of colonization has been present in America for many years. The treatment of the Native Americans falls into the category of "internal colonization," which can be described as the control of an independent group by another independent group of the same nation-state (Kelly and Altbach 3). Although the context of the situation is different, the intent of the "colonizers" is identical. This includes the way in which the educational system is structured. Katherine Jensen indicates that "the organization, curriculum, and language medium of these schools has aimed consistently at Americanizing the American Indian" (Jensen 155). She proceeds and asks, "If education was intended to permit native people mobility into the mainstream, we must ask why in over three centuries it has been so remarkably unsuccessful" (155). In a supporting study of 1990, Census statistics indicate that American Indians have a significantly lower graduation rate at the high school, bachelor, and graduate level than the rest of Americans

    (http://homer.louisville.edu/groups/l.../indians/inded .html Census statistics comparing Native Americans to the rest of the nation).

    Works Cited

    Jensen, Katherine. "Civilization and Assimilation in the Colonized Schooling of Native Americans." Education and the Colonial Experience. Ed. Gail P. Kelly and Philip G. Altbach. New Brunswick: Transaction, 1984. 117-36.

    Kelly, Gail P. and Philip G. Altbach. Introduction: "The Four Faces of Colonialism." Education and the Colonial Experience. Ed. Gail P. Kelly and Philip G. Altbach. New Brunswick: Transaction, 1984. 1-5.

    Macaulay, Thomas B. "Minute on Indian Education." http://humanitas.ucsb.edu/users/rale.../macaulay.html

    Ngugi Wa Thiong'o. Decolonising the Mind: The Politics of Language in African Literature. Portsmith, NH: Heinemann, 1981.

    ---."The Global Education Process." 18 par. Online. Internet. nd. Available: http://ultrix. ramapo.edu/global.thiongo.html

    Viswanathan, Gauri. "Currying Favor: The Politics of British Educational and Cultural Policy in India, 1813-1854." The Oxford Literary Review 85-104. (unknown volume and date)

    "American Indians/Native Americans: Education" 1990. npag. Online. Internet. Available: http://homer.louisville.edu/groups/l...ans/inded.html

    Author: John Southard, Fall 1997 (jsoutha@emory.edu

  13. #43
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    SOUTH ASIAN HISTORY

    History of British Rule and Colonization in India

    British Education in India

    As has been noted by numerous scholars of British rule in India, the physical presence of the British in India was not significant. Yet, for almost two centuries, the British were able to rule two-thirds of the subcontinent directly, and exercise considerable leverage over the Princely States that accounted for the remaining one-third. While the strategy of divide and conquer was used most effectively, an important aspect of British rule in India was the psychological indoctrination of an elite layer within Indian society who were artfully tutored into becoming model British subjects. This English-educated layer of Indian society was craftily encouraged in absorbing values and notions about themselves and their land of birth that would be conducive to the British occupation of India, and furthering British goals of looting India's physical wealth and exploiting it's labour.

    In 1835, Thomas Macaulay articulated the goals of British colonial imperialism most succinctly: "We must do our best to form a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern, a class of persons Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, words and intellect." As the architect of Colonial Britain's Educational Policy in India, Thomas Macaulay was to set the tone for what educated Indians were going to learn about themselves, their civilization, and their view of Britain and the world around them. An arch-racist, Thomas Macaulay had nothing but scornful disdain for Indian history and civilization. In his infamous minute of 1835, he wrote that he had "never found one among them (speaking of Orientalists, an opposing political faction) who could deny that a single shelf of a good European library was worth the whole native literature of India and Arabia". "It is, no exaggeration to say, that all the historical information which has been collected from all the books written in Sanskrit language is less valuable than what may be found in the most paltry abridgments used at preparatory schools in England".

    As a contrast to such unabashed contempt for Indian civilization, we find glowing references to India in the writings of pre-colonial Europeans quoted by Swami Vivekananda: "All history points to India as the mother of science and art," wrote William Macintosh. "This country was anciently so renowned for knowledge and wisdom that the philosophers of Greece did not disdain to travel thither for their improvement." Pierre Sonnerat, a French naturalist, concurred: "We find among the Indians the vestiges of the most remote antiquity.... We know that all peoples came there to draw the elements of their knowledge.... India, in her splendour, gave religions and laws to all the other peoples; Egypt and Greece owed to her both their fables and their wisdom

    But colonial exploitation had created a new imperative for the colonial lords. It could no longer be truthfully acknowledged that India had a rich civilization of its own - that its philosophical and scientific contributions may have influenced European scholars - or helped in shaping the European Renaissance. Britain needed a class of intellectuals meek and docile in their attitude towards the British, but full of hatred towards their fellow citizens. (MY comments: how else do you think the British could rule this massive Indian population with a handful of British colonials?) It was thus important to emphasize the negative aspects of the Indian tradition, and obliterate or obscure the positive. Indians were to be taught that they were a deeply conservative and fatalist people - genetically predisposed to irrational superstitions and mystic belief systems. That they had no concept of nation, national feelings or a history. If they had any culture, it had been brought to them by invaders - that they themselves lacked the creative energy to achieve anything by themselves. But the British, on the other hand epitomized modernity - they were the harbingers of all that was rational and scientific in the world. With their unique organizational skills and energetic zeal, they would raise India from the morass of casteism and religious bigotry. These and other such ideas were repeatedly filled in the minds of the young Indians who received instruction in the British schools.

    All manner of conscious (and subconscious) British (and European) agents would henceforth embark on a journey to rape and conquer the Indian mind. Within a matter of years, J.N Farquhar (a contemporary of Macaulay) was to write: "The new educational policy of the Government created during these years the modern educated class of India. These are men who think and speak in English habitually, who are proud of their citizenship in the British Empire, who are devoted to English literature, and whose intellectual life has been almost entirely formed by the thought of the West, large numbers of them enter government services, while the rest practice law, medicine or teaching, or take to journalism or business."

    Macaulay's strategem could not have yielded greater dividends. Charles E. Trevelyan, brother-in-law of Macaulay, stated: " Familiarly acquainted with us by means of our literature, the Indian youth almost cease to regard us as foreigners. They speak of "great" men with the same enthusiasm as we do. Educated in the same way, interested in the same objects, engaged in the same pursuits with ourselves, they become more English than Hindoos, just as the Roman provincial became more Romans than Gauls or Italians.."

    That this was no benign process, but intimately related to British colonial goals was expressed quite candidly by Charles Trevelyan in his testimony before the Select Committee of the House of Lords on the Government of Indian Territories on 23rd June, 1853: "..... the effect of training in European learning is to give an entirely new turn to the native mind. The young men educated in this way cease to strive after independence according to the original Native model, and aim at, improving the institutions of the country according to the English model, with the ultimate result of establishing constitutional self-government. They cease to regard us as enemies and usurpers, and they look upon us as friends and patrons, and powerful beneficent persons, under whose protection the regeneration of their country will gradually be worked out. ....."

    Much of the indoctrination of the Indian mind actually took place outside the formal classrooms and through the sale of British literature to the English-educated Indian who developed a voracious appetite for the British novel and British writings on a host of popular subjects. In a speech before the Edinburgh Philosophical Society in 1846, Thomas Babington (1800-1859), shortly to become Baron Macaulay, offered a toast: "To the literature of Britain . . . which has exercised an influence wider than that of our commerce and mightier than that of our arms . . .before the light of which impious and cruel superstitions are fast taking flight on the Banks of the Ganges!"

    However, the British were not content to influence Indian thinking just through books written in the English language. Realizing the danger of Indians discovering their real heritage through the medium of Sanskrit, Christian missionaries such as William Carey anticipated the need for British educators to learn Sanskrit and transcribe and interpret Sanskrit texts in a manner compatible with colonial aims. That Carey's aims were thoroughly duplicitous is brought out in this quote cited by Richard Fox Young: "To gain the ear of those who are thus deceived it is necessary for them to believe that the speaker has a superior knowledge of the subject. In these circumstances a knowledge of Sanskrit is valuable. As the person thus misled, perhaps a Brahman, deems this a most important part of knowledge, if the advocate of truth be deficient therein, he labors against the hill; presumption is altogether against him."

    In this manner, India's awareness of it's history and culture was manipulated in the hands of colonial ideologues. Domestic and external views of India were shaped by authors whose attitudes towards all things Indian were shaped either by subconscious prejudice or worse by barely concealed racism. For instance, William Carey (who bemoaned how so few Indians had converted to Christianity in spite of his best efforts) had little respect or sympathy for Indian traditions. In one of his letters, he described Indian music as "disgusting", bringing to mind "practices dishonorable to God". Charles Grant, who exercised tremendous influence in colonial evangelical circles, published his "Observations" in 1797 in which he attacked almost every aspect of Indian society and religion, describing Indians as morally depraved, "lacking in truth, honesty and good faith" (p.103). British Governor General Cornwallis asserted "Every native of Hindostan, I verily believe, is corrupt".

    Victorian writer and important art critic of his time, John Ruskin dismissed all Indian art with ill-concealed contempt: "..the Indian will not draw a form of nature but an amalgamation of monstrous objects". Adding: "To all facts and forms of nature it wilfuly and resolutely opposes itself; it will not draw a man but an eight armed monster, it will not draw a flower but only a spiral or a zig zag". Others such as George Birdwood (who took some interest in Indian decorative art) nevertheless opined: "...painting and sculpture as fine art did not exist in India."

    Several British and European historians attempted to portray India as a society that had made no civilizational progress for several centuries. William Jones asserted that Hindu society had been stationary for so long that "in beholding the Hindus of the present day, we are beholding the Hindus of many ages past". James Mill, author of the three-volume History of British India (1818) essentially concurred with William Jones as did Henry Maine. This view of India, as an essentially unchanging society where there was no intellectual debate, or technological innovation - where a hidebound caste system had existed without challenge or reform - where social mobility or class struggle were unheard of, became especially popular with European scholars and intellectuals of the colonial era.

    It allowed influential philosophers such as Hegel to posit ethnocentric and self-serving justifications of colonization. Arguing that Europe was "absolutely the end of universal history", he saw Asia as only the beginning of history, where history soon came to a standstill. "If we had formerly the satisfaction of believing in the antiquity of the Indian wisdom and holding it in respect, we now have ascertained through being acquainted with the great astronomical works of the Indians, the inaccuracy of all figures quoted. Nothing can be more confused, nothing more imperfect than the chronology of the Indians; no people which attained to culture in astronomy, mathematics, etc., is as incapable for history; in it they have neither stability nor coherence." With such distorted views of India, it was a small step to argue that "The British, or rather the East India Company, are the masters of India because it is the fatal destiny of Asian empires to subject themselves to the Europeans."

    Hegel's racist consciousness comes out most explicitly in his descriptions of Africans: "It is characteristic of the blacks that their consciousness has not yet even arrived at the intuition of any objectivity, as for example, of God or the law, in which humanity relates to the world and intuits its essence. ...He [the black person] is a human being in the rough."

    Such ideas also shaped the views of later German authors such Max Weber famous for his "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism," (1930) who in his descriptions of Indian religion and philosophy focused exclusively on "material renunciation" and the "world denying character" of Indian philosophical systems, ignoring completely the rich heritage of scientific realism and rational analysis that had in fact imbued much of Indian thought. Weber discounted the existence of any rational doctrines in the East, insisting that: "Neither scientific, artistic, governmental, nor economic evolution has led to the modes of rationalization proper to the Occident." Whether it was ignorance or prejudice that determined his views, such views were not uninfluential, and exemplified the euro-centric undercurrent that pervaded most British and European scholarship of that time.

    Naturally, British-educated Indians absorbed and internalized such characterizations of themselves and their past. Amongst those most affected by such diminution of the Indian character was the young Gandhi, who when in South Africa, wished to meet General Smuts and offer the cooperation of the South African Indian population for the Boer war effort. In a conversation with the General, Gandhi appears as just the sort of colonized sycophant the British education system had hoped to create: "General Smuts, sir we Indians would like to strengthen the hands of the government in the war. However, our efforts have been rebuffed. Could you inform us about our vices so we would reform and be better citizens of this land?" to which Gen.Smuts replied: "Mr. Gandhi, we are not afraid of your vices, We are afraid of your virtues". (Although Gandhi eventually went through a slow and very gradual nationalist transformation, in 1914 he campaigned for the British war efforts in World War I, and was one of the last of the national leaders to call for complete independence from British rule.)

    British-educated Indians grew up learning about Pythagoras, Archimedes, Galileo and Newton without ever learning about Panini, Aryabhatta, Bhaskar or Bhaskaracharya. The logic and epistemology of the Nyaya Sutras, the rationality of the early Buddhists or the intriguing philosophical systems of the Jains were generally unknown to the them. Neither was there any awareness of the numerous examples of dialectics in nature that are to be found in Indian texts. [B]They may have read Homer or Dickens but not the Panchatantra, the Jataka tales or anything from the Indian epics. Schooled in the aesthetic and literary theories of the West, many felt embarrassed in acknowledging Indian contributions in the arts and literature. What was important to Western civilization was deemed universal, but everything Indian was dismissed as either backward and anachronistic, or at best tolerated as idiosyncratic oddity. Little did the Westernized Indian know what debt "Western Science and Civilization" owed (directly or indirectly) to Indian scientific discoveries and scholarly texts. [/B]

    Dilip K. Chakrabarti (Colonial Indology) thus summarized the situation: "The model of the Indian past...was foisted on Indians by the hegemonic books written by Western Indologists concerned with language, literature and philosophy who were and perhaps have always been paternalistic at their best and racists at their worst.."

    Elaborating on the phenomenon of cultural colonization, Priya Joshi (Culture and Consumption: Fiction, the Reading Public, and the British Novel in Colonial India) writes: "Often, the implementation of a new education system leaves those who are colonized with a lack of identity and a limited sense of their past. The indigenous history and customs once practiced and observed slowly slip away. The colonized become hybrids of two vastly different cultural systems. Colonial education creates a blurring that makes it difficult to differentiate between the new, enforced ideas of the colonizers and the formerly accepted native practices."

    Ngugi Wa Thiong'o, (Kenya, Decolonising the Mind), displaying anger toward the isolationist feelings colonial education causes, asserted that the process "...annihilates a peoples belief in their names, in their languages, in their environment, in their heritage of struggle, in their unity, in their capacities and ultimately in themselves. It makes them see their past as one wasteland of non-achievement and it makes them want to distance themselves from that wasteland. It makes them want to identify with that which is furthest removed from themselves".

    Strong traces of such thinking continue to infect young Indians, especially those that migrate to the West. Elements of such mental insecurity and alienation also had an impact on the consciousness of the British-educated Indians who participated in the freedom struggle.

    In contemporary academic circles, various false theories continue to percolate. While some write as if Indian civilization has made no substantial progress since the Vedic period, for others the clock stopped with Ashoka, or with the "classical age" of the Guptas. Some Islamic scholars have attempted to construct a more positive view of the Islamic reigns in India, but continue to concur with colonial scholars in seeing pre-Islamic India as socially and culturally moribund and technologically backward. A range of scholars persist in basing their studies on views of Indian history that not only concentrate exclusively on its negative traits, but also fail to situate the negative aspects of Indian history in historical context. Few have attempted to make serious and objective comparisons of Indian social institutions and cultural attributes with those of other nations. Often the Indian historical record is unfavorably compared with European achievements that in fact took place many centuries later.

    Unable to rise above the colonial paradigms, many post-independence scholars of Indian history and civilization continue to fumble with colonially inspired doctrines that run counter to the emerging historical record. Others more conscious of British distortions and frustrated by the hyper-critical assessment of some Indian scholars, go to the other extreme of presenting the Indian historical record without any critical analysis whatsoever. Some have even attempted to construct artificially hyped views of Indian history where there is little attempt to distinguish myth from fact. Strong communal biases continue to prevail, as do xenophobic rejections of even potentially useful and valid Western constructs, even as Western-imposed hegemonic economic systems and exploitative economic models continue to dominate the Indian economic landscape and often find unquestioning acceptance.

    Thus, one of the most difficult tasks facing the Indian subcontinent is to free all scholarship concerning its development and its relationship to the world from the biased formulations and distortions of colonially-influenced authors. At the same time, Indian authors also need to study the West and other civilizations with dispassionate objectivity - eschewing both craven and uncritical admiration and xenophobic skepticism and distrust of the scientific and cultural achievements made by others.

    References:

    William Carey: On encouraging the cultivation of Sanskrit among the natives of India, 1822 F.I. Quarterly 2-131-37

    Thomas Babington (1800-1859),shortly to become Baron Macaulay: Speech before the Edinburgh Philosophical Society in 1846

    Edward Said, Culture and Imperialism (New York: Vintage Books, 1993), p. 168.

    Hegel, Samtliche Werke. J. Hoffmeister and F. Meiner, eds. (Hamburg, 1955), appendix 2, p. 243; op cit. Enrique Dussel, The Invention of the Americas (New York: Continuum, 1995), p. 20.

    Hegel, Lectures on the Philosophy of World History, Introduction: Reason in History, trans. H. B. Nisbet (Cambridge University Press, 1975), p.138.

    From Hegel's Einleitung in die Geschichte der Philosophie (J. Hoffmeister, ed., Hamburg: F. Meiner, 1962), op. cit. Roger-Pol Droit, L'Oubli de L'Inde, Une Amnésie Philosophique, Presses Universitaires de France, 1989, p. 189.

    Max Weber, "Soziologie, weltgeschichtliche Analyzen, Politik (Stuttgart: Kroner, 1956), p.340.

    Dilip K. Chakrabarti (Cambridge University, England): Colonial Indology - Sociopolitics of the Ancient Indian Past, Munshiram Manoharlal, Delhi, 2000.

    Priya Joshi: Culture and Consumption: Fiction, the Reading Public, and the British Novel in Colonial India

    Ngugi Wa Thiong'o (Kenya): Decolonising the Mind

    M. Abel, (Former Vice-Chancellor, SKD University, Anantapur): Indianisation of Education: Problems and Prospects

    Notes:

    1. The following extracts from a paper submitted to the Parliamentary Committee of 1853 on Indian territories titled "The Political Tendency of the Different Systems of Education in use in India" by Sir Charles E. Trevelyan, brother-in-law of Macaulay, speaks volumes about the intentions in introducing the English system of education in India:-.

    "..... The spirit of English literature, on the other hand, cannot but be favorable to the English connection. Familiarly acquainted with us by means of our literature, the Indian youth almost cease to regard us as foreigners. They speak of great men with the same enthusiasm as we do. Educated in the same way, interested in the same objects engaged in the same pursuits with ourselves, they become more English than Hindoos, just as the Roman provincial became more Romans than Gauls or Italians... Every community has its ideas of securing the universal principal, in some shape or other, is in a state of constant activity; and if it be not enlisted on our side, it must be arrayed against us. As long as the natives are left to brood over their former independence, their sole specific for improving their condition is, the immediate and total expulsion of the English.....' It is only by the infusion of European ideas, that a new direction can be given to the national views. The young men, brought up at our seminaries, turn with contempt from the barbarous despotism under which their ancestors groaned, to the prospect of improving their national institutions on the English model...... The existing connection between two such distant countries as England and India, cannot, in the nature of things, be permanent; no effort of policy can prevent the natives from ultimately regaining their independence. But there are two ways of arriving at this point. One of these is, through the medium of revolution; the other, through that of reform. In one, the forward movement is sudden and violent, in the other, it is gradual and peaceable. One must end in a complete alienation of mind and separation of interest between ourselves and the natives; the other in a permanent alliance, founded on mutual benefits and goodwill.... The only means at our disposal for preventing the one and securing the other class of result is, to set the natives on a process of European improvement, to which they ate already sufficiently inclined. They will then cease to desire and aim at independence on the old Indian footing. A sudden change will then be impossible and a long continuance of our present connection with India will even be assured to us.... The natives will not rise against us, because we shall stoop to raise them; there will be no reaction, because there will be no pressure; the national activity will be fully and harmlessly employed in acquiring and diffusing European knowledge, and naturalizing European institutions. The educated classes, knowing that the elevation of their country on these principles can only be worked out under protection, will naturally cling to us. They even now do so..... and it will then be necessary to modify the political institutions to suit the increased intelligence of the people, and their capacity for self-government.... In following this course we should be buying no new experiment. The Romans at once civilized the nations of Europe, and attached them to their rule by Romancing them; or, in other words, by educating them in the Roman literature and arts and teaching them to emulate their conquerors instead of opposing them. Acquisitions made by superiority in war, were consolidated by superiority in the arts of peace; and the remembrance of the original violence was lost in that of the benefits which resulted from it. The provincials of Italy, Spain, Africa and Gaul, having no ambition except to imitate the Romans, and to share their privileges with them, remained to the last faithful subjects of the Empire;...... The Indian will, I hope soon stand in the same position towards us in which we once stood towards the Romans. Tacitus informs us, that it was the policy of Julius Agricola to instruct the sons of the leading men among the Britons in the literature and science of Rome and to give them a taste for the refinements of Roman civilization. We all know how well this plan answered. From being obstinate enemies, the Britons soon became attached and confiding friends; and they made more strenuous efforts to retain the Romans, than their ancestors had done to resist their invasion. It will be a shame to us if, with our greatly superior advantages, we also do not make our premature departure be dreaded as a calamity......"

    2. Excerpts from Margaret Cameron's: The Impact of the British Empire on the Culture of Publishing at the Turn of the Century, (from The Culture of Publishing, Internet journal by students of publishing at Oxford Brookes University).

    Not only was New Imperialist literature successful from a financial point of view, it also helped "sell" the Empire to a significant proportion of the population, who were sceptical about its purpose and aims. The notion that the colonies needed the paternalistic approach offered by a superior white race, coincided with the fashionable views of Darwin, who concluded that some species are more fitted to rule, than others. The direct appeal of these adventure stories where the white Englishman always triumphed and always behaved impeccably, instilled middle-class values in countless public schoolboys, who would always "play the white man". For the working classes, the escapism could be imaginary, or real; between 1890 and 1914, 7 million people emigrated to the colonies from England and Ireland. (Tannenbaum pg 19) Although was probably due as much to social disturbance, as to the effect of publishing, the end result was the same; the crucial populating of the Empire with trustworthy Englishmen.

    Lawrence James goes one step further and claims that imperial propaganda was deliberately taught to all classes, through the medium of education. For example. thousands of Henty's books were donated to state and Sunday schools as class prizes. The geography syllabus for state schools in 1896 was dominated by lists of colonies, their products and inhabitants.

    "(A Man) ... could read about the Empire and feel that he was important, not just an unrecognized toiler on the industrial anthill, but an Englishman, one of the lords of the world". (Roebuck pg80)

    3. Examples of cultural racism in the writings of Hegel

    Hegel is quoted by David Grey in an article: On the Misportrayal of India as saying:

    "On the whole, the diffusion of Indian culture is only a dumb, deedless expansion; that is, it presents no political action. The people of India have achieved no foreign conquests, but have been on every occasion vanquished themselves."

    David Grey rightly describes such writings as "ethnocentric justifications of European colonialism", adding that: "The colonial perspective lingers on today in what might be termed the "invasion theory" of Indian history. This narrative assumes (usually implicitly) Hegel's idea that India is an intrinsically static, passive civilization, incapable on its own of having a history." He goes on to counter the notion that India "has only undergone historical change when motivated by outside forces, namely active aggressors."

    4. Comments on Indian Education:

    Gandhi wrote in the "Harijan" that Indian education made Indian students foreigners in their own country. The Radhakrishnan Commission said in their Report (1950); "one of the serious complaints against the system of education which has prevailed in this country for over a century is that it neglected India's past, that it did not provide the Indian students with a knowledge of their own culture. It had produced in some cases the feeling that we are without roots, and what is worse, that our roots bind us to a world very different from that which surrounds us".

    Related articles:

    From Trade to Colonization - Historic Dynamics of the East India Companies

    Loyalist Agents in the Indian Aristocracy and the Early Congress

    "Moderates" versus "Extremists" in the battle for "Swaraj" and "Swadeshi" (Also see Assessing Tilaks's Record)

    The Colonial Legacy

    The 2-Nation Theory and Partition

    Also see topics in Indian History for essays in Science and Technology in India, and articles on the Indian Freedom Movement

    Back to main index for South Asian History

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    Last updated: Sep 28, 2001
    Last edited by Ray; 27 Jan 05, at 18:20.

  14. #44
    Ray
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    I hope you all have the patience to read the above posts.

    I know reading is boring, But reading gives knowledge. Opinions from hearsay are at best shallow.

    I have given sources also.

    There is good and the bad.

    Do read.

    The Indian, Paksitani, Bangladeshi, Sri Lankan education is English education. We know nothing of our culture. It is but a 'bastarised view' that we modern Indian Sub Continentals have. To be awed by colonialism is not surprising given the facts in the above post (if you have had the time to read them)

    Do I know anything of my country's ancient culture, history or scientific, cultural, social and other contributions other than the British contributions? NO.

    Do I know about British culture and history? Yes. Is it the be all and end all? Maybe.
    Last edited by Ray; 27 Jan 05, at 18:24.

  15. #45

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    Ray

    You say: "We know nothing of our culture"

    WHat exactly does that mean? How can we know "nothing" and what exactly is this "our culture"? Since when was that a single thing and since when was it static?

    India have multiple cultures and heritages, including Western cultures and heritages ,- it's plain dangerous to go the route of "authentic" equals native equals good and right, because it's certainly not authentic, nor good or correct because it is either native or not.

    You alos great great offence at the term "WOG" and suggest that if English intended this as a slur, that we too should value it similarly - but what's so offensive about WOG? It's the same necessity as "Indian in color..." - we should take care not to give new life to worn out ideas by infusing in them our own ethnocentric and racist ideas -- If "Indian in color.." did not mean dark complexioned and if dark complexions were not under valued, what possible offence would be there to take??

    Lord Macaulay's intention and indeed the motivation of his religious ideas, was not to belittle Indians, but to do right by them.

    Denying these realities is to continue to hold on to the "victim" idea, to the "acted upon" idea, that so many in the turd world seem determined to hold on to -- by owning the imperial experience, by acknowledging that which we judge is good and by reviewing honestly the positives and negatives of the experience, we could have freed ourselves from playing the victim, the "done me wrong" self righteous victim.

    Whatever the future, we are creating with lens crafted by the English, but yielded by Indians, it's best that we acknowledge our heritage, good and bad, so we may own our present and future. And so that we can put to rest this sillyness about "authentic" and native.
    _____________________

    when they make no laws but what they themselves and their posterity must be subject to; when they can give no money, but what they must pay their share of; when they can do no mischief, but what must fall upon their own heads in common with their countrymen; their principals may expect then good laws, little mischief, and much frugality

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