India's Babu Raj

bolo121 · 03-14-2008, 04:19 AM

I always knew things were bad but on reading this the sheer scale of the mess hit me again.

India's civil service | Battling the babu raj | Economist.com

Quote:

India's civil service
Battling the babu raj

Mar 6th 2008 | DELHI, JALAUN AND KOCHI
From The Economist print edition
India has some of the hardest-working bureaucrats in the world, but its administration has an abysmal record of serving the public
AFP

RIGZIN SAMPHEL, a 33-year-old civil servant, wakes to the screeching of peacocks outside his bedroom window. Stepping into the gentle sunshine of a north Indian spring morning, he hears the lowing of three brown cows tasked with providing his milk. A scuffling attends him, as armed guards, peons, gardeners and orderlies—tasked with catering to Mr Samphel's other needs—hop to attention.

A four-year veteran of the elite Indian Administrative Service (IAS), Mr Samphel is the district magistrate of Jalaun, in Uttar Pradesh (UP) province. More often called the collector, or district officer, the district magistrate is the senior official of India's key administrative unit, the district. In Jalaun, an expanse of arid plain between the Ganges and Yamuna rivers, Mr Samphel is in charge of 564 villages and 1.4m people.

After a hearty breakfast, he leaves his residence—requisitioned from a local maharajah around 1840—and gets into his car: a white Ambassador, curvaceous clone of the 1948 Morris Oxford, complete with siren and flashing blue light, which has symbolised officialdom in India for six decades. Mr Samphel takes the back seat; a policeman rides machinegun in the front; and in two minutes they arrive at Mr Samphel's main office, the “collectorate”.

There for the next four hours, beneath a portrait of a beaming Mohandas Gandhi, Mr Samphel receives a stream of poor people. A turbaned flunkey regulates the flow, letting in a dozen at a time. Many are old and ragged, or blind. Paraplegics slither to the collector's feet on broken limbs. Most bring a written plea, for the resumption of a widow's pension that has mysteriously dried up; for money for an operation; for a tube-well or a blanket. Many bear complaints against corrupt officials. One supplicant wants permission to erect a statue of a dead politician: a former champion of the Hindu outcastes who comprise nearly half of Jalaun's population.

kuku · 03-14-2008, 06:04 AM

Rural Agricultural sector needs reforms.

This problem will multiply itself as more industrial growth will bring other better economic opportunities around certain areas, the migration within the nation will be massive and hard to manage.

Quote:

No doubt Mr Singh is right: to provide poor Indians with halfway decent public services, the bureaucracy needs, root-and-branch, to be made accountable. But this will not happen soon. Indeed, one of the more hopeful changes will be organic.

The RTI is working, we need more transparency and accountability, that is it, rest of the BS about corrupt panchayats and reservation in IAS etc. etc. does not matter, most of the job the IAS chaps do can be done by anyone in possession of the most basic of human skills.
It is the people who will have to see these reforms through, time to this head on. Otherwise time stop Bit#hing.
magical schemes that will bring about transformation within the decade will not happen.
Hear the ringing bells socialist way will never ever work.

dave lukins · 03-14-2008, 06:41 AM

How ironic, just two Threads down we read;

Quote:

the biggest surprise is the rise of the Indian rich — four of the top eight billionaires in the world are from India. Topping the ranks is steel tycoon Lakshmi Mittal, whose worth Forbes puts at $45 billion. Next up are the Ambani brothers, Mukesh and Anil, with $43 billion and $42 billion repsectively, largely from petrochemicals. Rounding out the list is KP Singh, the real-estate magnate, at $30 billion.

Maybe dear Mr Samphel could remind them of the realities of life

bolo121 · 03-14-2008, 07:11 AM

One main problem is that no motivation exists within the system for reform.
The corrupt politicians and the babus are quite happy with the grip they have on the funds of the govt.
So things continue in the same way.
Kuku i think you underestimate the IAS officers. Many are corrupt true but even so running such vast territories is not easy thing. The quality degradation from reservations is not to be underestimated.

kuku · 03-14-2008, 07:30 AM

Here is the deal, you need leadership skills to do these things, you can be a "never tell a lie", however that gets nothing done. And that can not be judged by answering "who wrote a book some 100 years ago".
The AS officers in my district were famous for the babu sahab attitude, they would not last 10 mins in the real world.
Reservations have not done anything to the quality of the people in the IAS services, our incapable parents generation which gave us this one mess of a socialist system did the damage.
There is a need to scrap this IAS system, too much talent is wasted in it.

Jay · 03-14-2008, 07:52 AM

The fault is both with the babus and system. IAS officers should never oversee welfare programs. They are already over burdened with 60 govt departments. Most of the dept heads are incompetent either because there is no incentive to perform or corruption, so the colletor can only do so much in a day and most work 16-18 hours a day.

So even the most enthusiastic officer will fizzle out in couple years.

Ray · 03-14-2008, 08:46 AM

And Quiet Flows the Ganges!

dave lukins · 03-14-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

And Quiet Flows the Ganges!

Nor forgetting that it's Milk, not water, flows in the Ganges

Jay · 03-14-2008, 19:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave lukins

Nor forgetting that it's Milk, not water, flows in the Ganges

With dead bodies floating like cherries

dave lukins · 03-14-2008, 21:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

With dead bodies floating like cherries

Quote:

Inadequate cremation procedures result in partially burnt or unburnt corpses floating in the river.

As have gone for millennia, time and times will not change beliefs

Ray · 03-14-2008, 21:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave lukins

As have gone for millennia, time and times will not change beliefs

The ashes are the stuff that is consigned to the waters by the Hindus. The Ganges being the holy river is the best place as per their beliefs.

Half burnt bodies are not to be consigned. It is done by some, the poor, since they cannot afford the wood to completely burn the body.

Crematoriums are the answer, but then villages don't have the same!

bolo121 · 03-15-2008, 05:56 AM

Hats off to those brave people who can manage to bathe in the ganges.
Just seeing the dead bodies on tv is enough to make me queasy

03-14-2008, 07:52 AM	#6 (permalink)
Jay Tamizhanban *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 08-06-03 Location: NJ Posts: 6,820 Country:	The fault is both with the babus and system. IAS officers should never oversee welfare programs. They are already over burdened with 60 govt departments. Most of the dept heads are incompetent either because there is no incentive to perform or corruption, so the colletor can only do so much in a day and most work 16-18 hours a day. So even the most enthusiastic officer will fizzle out in couple years. __________________ A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

03-14-2008, 08:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
Ray Suspended Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 29,172 Country:	And Quiet Flows the Ganges! __________________ "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination." I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to. HAKUNA MATATA

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Indian Economy	Monk	International Politics	750	08-03-2007 00:10 AM
China's foot in India's door	Neo	International Politics	29	07-08-2007 03:31 AM

03-14-2008, 07:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
bolo121 Armchair Worrier *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-19-07 Location: india Posts: 1,377 Country:	One main problem is that no motivation exists within the system for reform. The corrupt politicians and the babus are quite happy with the grip they have on the funds of the govt. So things continue in the same way. Kuku i think you underestimate the IAS officers. Many are corrupt true but even so running such vast territories is not easy thing. The quality degradation from reservations is not to be underestimated.

03-14-2008, 07:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
kuku *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 02-28-08 Location: delhi Posts: 1,292 Country:	Here is the deal, you need leadership skills to do these things, you can be a "never tell a lie", however that gets nothing done. And that can not be judged by answering "who wrote a book some 100 years ago". The AS officers in my district were famous for the babu sahab attitude, they would not last 10 mins in the real world. Reservations have not done anything to the quality of the people in the IAS services, our incapable parents generation which gave us this one mess of a socialist system did the damage. There is a need to scrap this IAS system, too much talent is wasted in it.

03-15-2008, 05:56 AM	#12 (permalink)
bolo121 Armchair Worrier *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-19-07 Location: india Posts: 1,377 Country:	Hats off to those brave people who can manage to bathe in the ganges. Just seeing the dead bodies on tv is enough to make me queasy

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)