Thread: Honour Killing! – Why?

Originally Posted by tarek

The cancer is not huddood laws, it's a particular understanding of Islam itself.

Tarek,

I am not qualified to comment on what is the right or wrong understanding of Islam and flowing directly from that, what is right (just) or wrong (unjust) law per Islam.

I can however concur with Asim's view that it is certainly "cancerous", though I would have a stronger epithet in mind.

Curbing myself, I will simply say that having "just" laws while not sufficient to prevent discrimination, at least in that it constitutes a break down in the law, offers the implicit hope of redressal. In the case of unjust laws like the Hudood/Blasphemy laws enacted in Pakistan, discrimination takes place because of the law. That not only constitutes complete failure on the part of the Nation State but also forecloses all avenues of hope for the victim.

Anyway Khalid Ahmed in his today's Urdu Press Review has devoted a fair bit of space on the Hudood law and minorities :

According to Juhud-e-Haq (November 10, 2004) monthly in its November issue Sindh National Party protested in Shadadpur against the abduction of the Hindus in two months. Kapil Dev was kidnapped from Clifton on August 24, in front of his school and was not found. Dr Nanak Ram was threatened with abduction till he ran away to India. Bhagat Ram and Santosh Kumar too were not recovered. Sindh National Party went on hunger strike for them in Larkana.

Pakistan as an ideological state is mopping up the non-Muslims because they are zimmis and cannot be equal citizens. They are all prospective victims of the Blasphemy Law. Sindh National Party reminds us that we have stubbed our toe twice on misunderstanding national bonding on the basis of language. First in East Pakistan, then in Sindh.

Monthly Juhud-e-Haq (November 10, 2004) recorded in its November 2004 issue that in Mirpur Khas 15 persons of Ahmedi community were hauled up under Section 298-C for writing 786 on their wedding cards. Those put behind bars included three brides and their bridegrooms. The wedding cards also contained such incriminating words as As-Salam-o-Alaikam, Insha Allah and Marhoom. When a welfare organisation visited the affected Ahmedis at their homes it found them completely terrorised and their houses locked.

The Ahmedis thought they could get away with the numerals denoting Bismillah. They could not have claimed salam as a Jewish salutation either. An entire nation is devoted to victimising them and covering itself with their sacrificial blood. The Blasphemy Law is meant to trap them and the reference to religion in the passports is intended to make them wear a kind of Star of David. Other non-Muslims get caught in this trap and suffer needlessly. More candidates are emerging for our national pastime of cleansing the state of unwanted humanity. The Shia and the Ismailis are next.

According to Khabrain (November 14, 2004) journalist Munawwar Mohsin who was under life imprisonment after an insulting email was published inadvertently in The Frontier Post, Peshawar, was freed by Peshawar High Court because it found him not guilty. The offence was reported in 2001 and an emotional sessions judge had given a stiff sentence for an inadvertent act.

It took four years for an innocent man to get off the hook. The sessions judge in Peshawar was not alone in doing what he did. Judges at the lower courts go overboard with their religious passions. One judge in Lahore sentenced Yusuf the False Prophet to death on faulty evidence. The High Court would have let him off but he was killed in prison by a criminal who was also a member of a jihadi militia. One Lahore High Court judge was killed by a fanatic for allowing bail to a Christian pre-adolescent boy who had been condemned to death for blasphemy. But one Lahore High Court judge took the cake. While still serving he would address meetings of citizens and recommend that they kill a blasphemer on their own without registering a case under the infamous law. *

Tarek,

My apologies if my post depressed you. That was not the aim.

Amled wanted to know about Honour Killing and I thought it was the tribal customs and illiteracy that caused it and that is true.

For greater explanation since Amled asked, I asked my Moslem friend who is quite versed on Islamic subjects and he gave me that details of the last post.

IO know it is unfortunate a situation that neither makes me proud too. In India we had two Honour killing and the panchayat is also in jail. Good for the judiciary!

This is a destestable custom and I think that it is all this macho crap that some communties thing they possess and have the right to flaunt like a rapist flaunting a condom as a flag of immense victory.

To me, it is no victory. It is a the lowest form of cowardice!

Ray

Ur post was mmuch appreciated - I suppose whats so depressing to me is the fact that in all these years we have been UNWILLING to break these customs and traditions, we have been UNWILLING to not make these profitable, to be punitive towards these customs and traditions.

Far from creating a ethical society, we are hell bent on creating a tribal society based on superstitions, mysogyny and hate - I would like Pakistanis to take note about what has happened to us ever since we were "Islamized" - how much more can we take??

todays Daily Times
Madadgaar report: Abduction of women and children on the rise

By Aayan Ali

LAHORE: The incidence of children and women abductions is on the rise as the media reported 2,906 cases in 2004, DailyTimes learnt from a report on Madadgaar organisation’s research.

There were 1,398 cases of woman kidnappings, 981 of girl kidnappings and 527 of boy kidnappings throughout Pakistan. The research report pointed out that out of the 2,906 kidnapping cases, 301 were reported in January, 184 in February, 198 in March, 219 in April, 266 in May, 323 in June, 275 in July, 306 in August, 240 in September, 194 in October, 208 in November and 192 cases in December 2004.

In some prominent cases the kidnaper was found to be an Amil (peer/faqir) or spiritual healer who lured the child with the promise to heal away the effects of black magic. In other cases the kidnappers were clerics, landlords, dacoits, husbands, shopkeepers, pimps and drug and human traffickers.

Muhammad Ali, the in charge of the Missing Children Desk at Madadgaar, said that kidnapping trends had changed. Although hundreds of children were kidnapped, they were in fact reported missing, he said, adding that recent newspaper reports showed that in most cases children between the ages of 1 to 10 were kidnapped and physically or sexually assaulted because of old enmity or sexual gratification. He said that young people were more inclined to force themselves on children because of easy access to pornographic material on the Internet. “They use children as objects for sexual gratification,” he said.

Earlier, the city administration launched a campaign to wipe out pornography in Internet cafes. Sadar Ullah Khan, the inspector general of police for Punjab, had also issued orders that cubicles in Internet cafes be made transparent.

The research also showed that during 2004, 1,721 cases of children and women kidnappings were reported in Punjab, 982 in Sindh, 125 in NWFP and 78 in Balochistan. Moreover, 444 kidnapping cases were reported in Karachi, 351 in Lahore, 153 in Multan, 121 in Hyderabad, 90 in Gujranwala, 77 in Rawalpindi, 72 in Sheikhupura, 66 in Sukkur, 46 in Vehari, 53 in Peshawar, 57 in Ferozewala, 44 in Bahawalpur, 31 in Quetta, 35 in Sialkot, 33 in Sahiwal, 38 in Sargodha, 27 in Faisalabad, 24 in Dharki, 24 in Khanewal, 21 in Dadu, 47 in Khairpur, 26 in Hafizabad and 58 in Islamabad.

The report also shows that 981 girl’s kidnappings were reported in the local press during 2004. Fifty-four abduction cases were reported in January, 34 in February, 38 in March, 49 in April, 69 in May, 123 in June, 134 in July, 127 in August, 104 in September, 82 in October, 86 in November and 81 cases in December.

The research also pointed out that during the same period, 527 boy’s kidnappings were reported. Sixty-nine cases were reported in January, 40 in February, 32 in March, 26 in April, 56 in May, 67 in June, 26 in July, 49 in August, 38 in September, 47 in October, 38 in November and 39 in December.

Madadgaar said that child abductions were increasing at an alarming rate throughout the country. The report concluded that the recovery of kidnapped women and children was a serious problem. Only 317 people (100 boys, 119 girls and 98 women) were recovered out of the 2,906 cases abduction cased reported in 2004.

Ray, Hari and tarek, - thanks for the amount of material you have provided, it’s taken awhile to read and digest It’s one thing reading or hearing about the abuses women in these societies are subjected, it’s another thing to be made aware that in most cases its core cause is simply financial, with a healthy dollop of judicial and political corruption and/or indifference mixed in.

Hari Omm - Women as commodity? Actually the truth is that in Pakistan even today, woman is the nig..er of the world. No apologies for the word, it's the truth.

This statement of Haris’ epitomizes everything I have read so far in this posting. In some ways it is even more repugnant then the treatment accorded to the black slaves on pre-Civil War southern plantations. Why? Because in these tribal societies it is their own mothers, sisters, wives and cousins; their own flesh and blood who are being bartered like cattle. Who are being kept in a state of illiteracy and ignorance and degradation. Who daily runs the risk being beaten, tortured in ways that would turn the stomach of a Marquise de Sade, and ultimately being slaughtered like a beast of burden.
Yet one question persists. That is why this condition continues. The dichotomy of a society that on one hand is trying to join the 21st. Century, yet still hasn’t been able to shed customs and mores from a more bloodthirsty past. Is it really as simple as:

Awareness-one of the reasons:
More women are now aware of their rights. This credit largely goes to the awareness raising work women's rights groups but also to the media and mobility of women. Women's refusal to comply with the decision or traditions to violate their newly discovered rights has led to backlash from men apprehending loss from control, involving violence, killings and other such threats. "There is a fear of change (viewed as westernization) and the repercussions of this fear/reactions are borne by women. This reactionary trend results in a great number of honour killings in urban areas where women are more mobile and there is a bigger chance that their activities will be seen as suspect".

That there are men in all levels of society who are afraid of loosing their dominant role in society, who then ally themselves with reactionary elements in the Islamic community. Elements who also are fiercely interested in preserving the status quo and thereby their own status in society.
It worked in Europe during the Dark Age, where the Catholic Church kept the masses content with simple homilies. Where they were told that it was by Divine Will that they serve their betters, and they would be rewarded in the hereafter, but also with promises of Hellfire and Damnation if they set themselves against Gods Will! It took the Reformation and centuries of bloodshed and war before that bond was broken.
Hopefully Pakistan will fare better!

"Hopefully Pakistan will fare better!"

Gentle Amled, history records that all freedom has had to be won, at the altar of sacrifice - there may come a time when Pakistani women just won't put up with it, when will that time come? Who can say, we can only say that in the at least 5000 years of history, it's coming has been anticipated, and the altars of sacrifice are not apparently, yet satisfied.

Asim

Maybe it's time to ask who cares what is and is not "islamic" - "Islamic" has made into a kind of rubber - Political parties on the left now let us what is and is not "islamic", the mad mullahs can be forgiven, the right are as clueless as the left - in the meantime, the thing that is the net loser is the idea of islam as Just -- no ideology, nor adversary and no enemy could have done this kind of dammage to Pakistan, than what we have done to ourselves by pretending that Quran was "little red book" of everything or that religious duties and obligations ought to replace civil rights and responsibilties.

Really, what matters most? "Islamic" or Just?? Since the two are obviously not the same, we have to consider -- back to the old quandry, opt for the asharite argument that one does not have natural reason and that good and bad are not qualities we may know by reason but by relation alone -- OR reject the asharite position and step in to the light of reason -- Seems to me we are more and more desperate, lets hope the baby won't be thrown out with the bath water, or at least lets hope people can still distinguish between the baby and the bath water.

That's a mind set of cowardly idol worshippers. An answer for everything from verses quoted out of contecxt - as if yeaterday was today,a s if the 6th century arabia was the same as Pakistan of today.

TO my thinking, the problem is in the ethics or lack thereof, that we impart in our education - it gbegins from there.

The repeating of verses makes of these into magic spells - instead of the revolutionary modernizing Islam, we have Islam as superstition