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About LinkBacksYes, and what's the problem?Originally Posted by HistoricalDavid
Or launch ICBM from siberia. Much simplier
What's the problem to eliminate several Russian specialists if some conflict arose? And then just look to other parts of the monitors.
Please, Gabala is not "useless by any standards". Moreover it's placed just perfect. The only disadvantage is that it isn't allow to track launched missilse, but it's much easier, cheaper and quickly to upgrade this station than to build a new one.
Yes, and what's the problem?
Or launch ICBM from siberia. Much simplier
Last edited by foxhound_nn; 21 Nov 07, at 20:32.
NATO is not the one with the problem, Russia and its pathetic persecution complex is. This missile shield as intended cannot defend against them.
The sheer idiocy is that they want to manufacture their own retaliation (redeployed IRBMs) to something that does not affect them (the shield!)
HD Ready?
So what if that would not be considered equal thing to the one in Poland? US would be going to start war against Russia in that case? Because of Poland?
US likes to make meaningless proposals. Glass bead in exchange of gold, favourite kind of trade. Fortunately we are not Africans or North American Indians.
Of course Iranians want to have a nuclear bomb. And the Americans most of all promote this wish, because if you were Iran constantly getting threats of being bombed by US air force, you would wish a Bomb above all.
25 million Soviet people died in that war that came from the West. I think you can understand why Russia doesn't want to take any chances with any lunatics, or democracy knights, or anybody else. That doesn't matter with whom exactly.
OK - let's speak without politics- just clear tech talk
1 Gabala is 30 years old and is not compatible with American technology
2 Gabala is 60 miles away from Iran's border and can only see the very beginning of the rocket flight if it's is going to-wards Europe and USA
3 Once missile goes over the Gabala radar it cannot turn to the other side to track it anymore - it is strictly 180 degrees of sight radar to-wards the south- South-East of former USSR border - not 360 degrees radar which you need for that and which will be built close to Prague
4 Even if Gabala radar can only track missile for a long time it still cannot intercept the rocket by sending a missile to to shot the rocket down - it is only information radar.
To rebuilt this station will only fix part of the problem and will cost huge amount of money. To have clear line of sight you need radar installation somewhere in central Russia or in Europe - otherwise it is useless.
"We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill
1 USA is not going to start a war with Russia and try to steal Siberia - I was taught this for 10 years in Soviet school and it never happened. So despite what you may think - your neighborers China and all these Muslim middle est countries pose much greater risk to your stability especially when every school book in China shows all Siberia and Central; Asia a Chinese territory. USA and Europe has no intention or desire to do that - you should live here to understand it. For now I am just saying what I learned after 17 years of life experience in USA after Moscow.
2 Why it is meaningless proposal - if your own guys will be there to monitor it and participate in the station. It is joint NATO and Russia operation in fact.
3 Iranians engage in terrorism all over the world and openly threat other states. Provided they have this weapon - I can't imagine the results. So , one thing I can promise you - one way or another they will never be allowed to have one. It is in your interests as well.
4 Unofficial number of casualties in WWII on the Russian side is not 25 but million including missing in action which were never counted as dead and which included my 2 grand uncles. We think that one died somewhere in Stalingrad and another one in Kiev - we can only think since there are no graves and they never until very recently were considered dead. In other words - I know my history very well. And I should remind you that war is over and it is peace for the last 62 years. So it is time for Russia to join everybody else in this peace instead of trying to fight imaginary enemies.
BTW - in American school books it says that Russia had about 70% of the most heavy fighting during WWII and bore the brunt of this war. So don't think that Americans don't know about the sacrifice Soviet people showed during WWII. These books are quite honest and straightforward despite BS Russian propaganda that says otherwise.
"We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill
Or from the Iskander complexes being deployed to Belarus.
Which happens to make it useless. It can't track the missile......
Chinese influence may wax and wane, but U.S. influence has proven to be far more resilient. It tends to stay once it gets somewhere. China may be a tactical geo-political opponent, but America will always be the strategic threat.
Last edited by Feanor; 21 Nov 07, at 23:35.
Only if you want to consider America this strategic threat. Trust me in 10-15 years China will become as big as that can be and it is right on the Russian border and Russian population is going down.
"We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill
If Russian population trends aren't reversed, it won't take China to bring down motherlandwe'll go down on our own.
I prey it never happen, because despite what someone in Russia may think, America wants Russia to stay strong and self supporting. Also Great China (with Siberia and Central Asia ) is not in anybodies interests.If Russian population trends aren't reversed, it won't take China to bring down motherland
"We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill
Given U.S./Iranian relations I doubt it will get to that point...
Facts to a liberal is like Kryptonite to Superman.
-- Larry Elder
By the way, yes. So if the US are already planning an incursion into Iran, that is the point of this missile defense system, which will start to work at its full capacity in at least 5 years (and most probably in >8)? Incursion and missile defense system are interchangeable (взаимозаменяемые, если я неправильно вспомнил слово) measures. So if the main motive to build this system is really Iran, the US should at first make sure, that a war with Iran will not arise, and huge amount of money will not be wasted for nothing.
Yes, have to admit that it sounds reasonably. Good arguments. Really. Especially third. (But instead 4th isn't an argument at all - planned radar in europe cannot intersept rockets too. It's a radar.)
And I have only to add ("thoughts aloud") that it's much easier to intercept missiles on the first stages of its flight. So why not to use Gabala (60 miles from the border, at least as you has said) and allocate missiles either near Gabala or in Israel?
And once again, read the previous post
Last edited by foxhound_nn; 22 Nov 07, at 18:34.
Wouldn't be the first time Americans wasted a butload of money on unnecessary measures. They're capitalists they can afford it. God forbid some of that money goes to help their own lower classes.
What I meant by the #4 is that radar can not only track but also navigate the interceptors to wards the target which Gabala cannot do. Sort of like lasing the target. (Forgive my not very technical explanation)
It is true that on the beginning it is easier to intercept the missile but the amount of time will be very short and where do the interceptors will be?Georgia , Armenia or Russia itself? So , yes, radar is there but you cannot shoot interceptor from Poland all across Russia to intercept these Iranian rockets. Also Russia will be very upset if any debris will fall on it. the best to intercept the missiles is over black sea that is why the radar and interceptors are proposed to build there. All of this is simply technical data - nothing about politics. I was surprised to hear about it on the first place. Of course I understand Russian fears, but you should try and understand ours as well. So if this will be a basis for negotiations - I am positive that the solution will present itself.
"We Shall Never Surrender" Winston Churchill
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