Abolish Belgium?

Ray · 09-12-2007, 14:17 PM

Quote:

Abolish Belgium?

By Paul Belien
September 12, 2007

In the early 1990s, following the fall of Communism, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia fell apart. Today, the federal Kingdom of Belgium, the last of Europe's multinational states, is beginning to unravel.

In 1830-31, the international powers put Belgium together as a political compromise and an experiment in building one state out of two nationalities. The country is home to 6 million Dutch-speakers in Flanders, its northern half bordering the Netherlands, 3 million French-speakers in Wallonia, its southern half bordering France, and 1 million people in its capital Brussels, an enclave within Flanders, which is also the capital of the European Union (EU).

A deliberate "frenchification" policy has succeeded in turning Brussels, originally a Dutch-speaking town, into a predominantly French-speaking city. Even North-African immigrants were used to achieve this aim. The immigrants, coming from former French colonies, were given Belgian citizenship to force the Flemings into a minority position in Brussels.

Six years ago Claude Eerdekens, a leading Walloon Socialist and the chairman of the Naturalization Commission of the Belgian House of Representatives, admitted that his commission was granting citizenship to foreigners without investigating the applicants' backgrounds because most of the immigrants speak French rather than Dutch. "Our commission does more for the frenchification of Brussels than the Flemings can ever do to prevent it," he boasted in a newspaper interview.

All this would not have been possible if Belgium had been a democracy. Belgium's Constitution stipulates, however, that no major decisions can be taken without a majority in both parts of the country and that the government should consist of 50 percent Flemings and 50 percent Walloons.In practice this means that 20 percent of the population (i.e. half of the Walloons) can veto every decision. This has made the Parti Socialiste (PS), the largest party in Wallonia, the power broker in the country.

While capitalist-minded Flanders generates wealth (it accounts for 70 percent of Belgium's GDP and 80 percent of its exports), Wallonia, at the receiving end of a generous welfare system, spends most of the money and vetoes any attempt to reform the system. Every year 6.6 percent of Flanders' GDP is spent on welfare in Wallonia.

Flanders cannot allow this situation to continue. The growing electoral appeal of the secessionist Vlaams Belang (VB), which strives for an independent Flanders, pressured the Flemish Christian Democrats to propose the transformation of Belgium into a confederation of two largely independent states with only the king, foreign policy and defense in common. On June 10, the Flemish Christian Democrat leader Yves Leterme, the son of a Walloon father and a Flemish mother, won the Belgian general elections. The Walloon parties refused to accept Mr. Leterme as prime minister, thus making it impossible to put together a Belgian government. According to the Walloons, Mr. Leterme is a closet Flemish nationalist. King Albert II is not too fond of Mr. Leterme either. Last year, the latter reproached the monarch openly for not speaking Dutch, the language of the majority of his compatriots, well enough.

Today, three months after the elections, Flemish politicians are openly suggesting that one should fill the vacuum left by the absence of a federal government by having the Flemish regional parliament unilaterally declare Flemish sovereignty. Last week, even the Economist wrote that it is "time to abolish Belgium."

The unraveling of Belgium does not bode well for the EU's attempts to transform itself into a multinational state. Belgium is not only the EU's host country but also its model. As early as 1904 the Belgian socialist Leon Hennebicq, a Brussels lawyer, wrote: "Have we [Belgium] not been called the laboratory of Europe? Indeed, we are a nation under construction. The problem of economic expansion is duplicated perfectly here by the problem of constructing a nationality. Two different languages, different classes without cohesion, a parochial mentality, an adherence to local communities that borders on the most harmful egotism, these are all elements of disunion. Luckily they can be reconciled. The solution is [state-controlled] economic expansion, which can make us stronger by uniting us."

His words foreshadowed the Europeanist project of the 1950s, which aimed for political unification through economic integration. Two years ago, Guy Verhofstadt, Belgium's prime minister (maybe its last) called the country "the laboratory of European unification." Today, it seems that what Belgium can teach Europeans is the unfeasibility of the "European project," which attempts to amalgamate various peoples into a single welfare state, the European Union, while at the same time depriving those countries that create the bulk of the EU's wealth of the power to decide how their money is spent.

Paul Belien is editor of the Brussels Journal and an adjunct fellow of the Hudson Institute.

Abolish Belgium?*-*-*The Washington Times, America's Newspaper

One wonders why is there such a divisive tendency creeping and gripping the world!

Next they will divide the diamonds at Antwerp!

JAD_333 · 09-12-2007, 14:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

One wonders why is there such a divisive tendency creeping and gripping the world!

Next they will divide the diamonds at Antwerp!

Ray

Haven't you heard? It's all due to planetary influences.

Ray · 09-12-2007, 14:55 PM

JAD,

Seriously, how serious is this divide?

Shamus · 09-12-2007, 15:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

One wonders why is there such a divisive tendency creeping and gripping the world!

Next they will divide the diamonds at Antwerp!

Well Ray,obviously the Flemish contingent just wants to "Go Dutch" for real and make the Walloons pay their own way for a change

.

Ray · 09-12-2007, 15:18 PM

Thanks.

That I have understood.

What I want to know is whether this is a serious problem or not.

I liked that one on 'going Dutch'!

JAD_333 · 09-12-2007, 16:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

JAD,

Seriously, how serious is this divide?

Ray, I don't know, but I have a feeling it won't break out into sectarian violence. The parties involved are a bit apathetic.

entropy · 09-12-2007, 17:31 PM

Discussing Belgium, and not inviting me?

The Wallons are depending on the Flamands, and the mere thought of a split is haunting them in their worst nightmares. Many Flamands would want a split, as the smarter realize that dragging Wallony along is like humping a backpack full of sand in the Sahara. The more simple Flamands, stimulated by De Winter's patriotic rants, simply want a Great Flemisch-Ditsch state where they can sit and wish they were Germanic.
The reason that the split of Belgium is being discussed more than before is the defeat of DiRupo's Partie Socialiste, the Wallon socialist party that was a major ruling block in the parliament, and by forming coalitions with other socialist parties, blocked out every possible thought of a split.
The victory of the conservative parties and increasing popularity of the nationalist Vlaams Belang might change the situation, however the pro-split crowd is divided as well. Some of them want the United Netherlands back, others want an Aryan White Flemish State, and so on.

I doubt a split will ever occur. As atoms are held together by the strong nuclear force, Belgium is held together by the strong bureaucratic force.

The biggest problem with the split, and the thing that actually holds the country together, is Brussels. Brussels is in fact a French-speaking town, but it has many neighbouring areas that are Flemish. Splitting it would be a nightmare.

I think my solution will be the best: One gives Flandria to the Netherlands, Wallony to the French, and Brussels to the papacy. I wonder why it isn't done yet, Belgium is a joke.

Amled · 09-12-2007, 18:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by entropy

Discussing Belgium, and not inviting me?

The title of the thread was as good as a written invitation.

Tarek Morgen · 09-12-2007, 21:33 PM

Its three a.m. my stomach hurts and I am on four different kinds of medicines, so I am in a perfect condition to solve problems concerning national and international problems. And the solution for this one is so obvious I am wondering why nobody else did think of it.

To save Belgium, Germany has to invade France. Like in the past we take the shortcut through Belgium hoping to reach the French border without them surrendering to early.

And like in the past this unprovoked act of aggression against Belgium will unite them in their struggle against us like in the last two world wars. And we havent invaded France in over 60 years....we are already late. (And I belive this would help to restore the American-German friendship). Further we Germans havent done anything in the last 60 years to keep our image as a warmongering nation, and maybe we can keep Elsaß-Lothringen this time.

Ray · 09-12-2007, 22:20 PM

Entropy,

Could you explain all the various ethnicity that you mentioned.

It would make things, for me, a bit clear.

**Ironduke** · 09-12-2007, 22:26 PM

If the Flemish wanted to separate, I think they ought to be able to do so. Flanders could join the Netherlands, and Wallonia could join France. Brussels could be made an international EU city, something similar to the District of Columbia.

The 60-40 split and 50-50 representation is somewhat reminiscent of Lebanon (though there's no chance of the sectarian violence).

Expat Canuck · 09-13-2007, 00:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shamus

Well Ray,obviously the Flemish contingent just wants to "Go Dutch" for real and make the Walloons pay their own way for a change

.

Interesting tidbit, in The Netherlands the expression we use "Going Dutch" is called 'Going American'.

The divide is actually quite serious and I'm more than positive if the Flemish do seperate the French will kick up a violent fuss. Nothing upsets the Frenchies more than taking away their free ride. Look at the Paris riots and every other riot the French have.

Expat Canuck · 09-13-2007, 00:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarek Morgen

Its three a.m. my stomach hurts and I am on four different kinds of medicines, so I am in a perfect condition to solve problems concerning national and international problems. And the solution for this one is so obvious I am wondering why nobody else did think of it.

To save Belgium, Germany has to invade France. Like in the past we take the shortcut through Belgium hoping to reach the French border without them surrendering to early.

And like in the past this unprovoked act of aggression against Belgium will unite them in their struggle against us like in the last two world wars. And we havent invaded France in over 60 years....we are already late. (And I belive this would help to restore the American-German friendship). Further we Germans havent done anything in the last 60 years to keep our image as a warmongering nation, and maybe we can keep Elsaß-Lothringen this time.

Oh **** that's great!

clap clap clap clap! Oh please do it, we're running out of fresh war movies and the war on terror is getting boring.

crooks · 09-13-2007, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

If the Flemish wanted to separate, I think they ought to be able to do so. Flanders could join the Netherlands, and Wallonia could join France. Brussels could be made an international EU city, something similar to the District of Columbia.

I was under the Impression the Flemish prefer independence to actually rejoining the Netherlands (they'd be a very powerful economic force without the Dutch, and they have many differences with them as well).

Wallonia would certainly join France, it's too weak economically to survive - if the French want them, which is another matter all together.

Brussels should be a city-state, ya.

soutie · 09-13-2007, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarek Morgen

Its three a.m. my stomach hurts and I am on four different kinds of medicines, so I am in a perfect condition to solve problems concerning national and international problems. And the solution for this one is so obvious I am wondering why nobody else did think of it.

To save Belgium, Germany has to invade France. Like in the past we take the shortcut through Belgium hoping to reach the French border without them surrendering to early.

And like in the past this unprovoked act of aggression against Belgium will unite them in their struggle against us like in the last two world wars. And we havent invaded France in over 60 years....we are already late. (And I belive this would help to restore the American-German friendship). Further we Germans havent done anything in the last 60 years to keep our image as a warmongering nation, and maybe we can keep Elsaß-Lothringen this time.

ha ha

you made my day on your way through Belgium pick up some chocies for me

09-12-2007, 17:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
entropy Senior Reader *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 03-19-07 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,628 Country:	Discussing Belgium, and not inviting me? The Wallons are depending on the Flamands, and the mere thought of a split is haunting them in their worst nightmares. Many Flamands would want a split, as the smarter realize that dragging Wallony along is like humping a backpack full of sand in the Sahara. The more simple Flamands, stimulated by De Winter's patriotic rants, simply want a Great Flemisch-Ditsch state where they can sit and wish they were Germanic. The reason that the split of Belgium is being discussed more than before is the defeat of DiRupo's Partie Socialiste, the Wallon socialist party that was a major ruling block in the parliament, and by forming coalitions with other socialist parties, blocked out every possible thought of a split. The victory of the conservative parties and increasing popularity of the nationalist Vlaams Belang might change the situation, however the pro-split crowd is divided as well. Some of them want the United Netherlands back, others want an Aryan White Flemish State, and so on. I doubt a split will ever occur. As atoms are held together by the strong nuclear force, Belgium is held together by the strong bureaucratic force. The biggest problem with the split, and the thing that actually holds the country together, is Brussels. Brussels is in fact a French-speaking town, but it has many neighbouring areas that are Flemish. Splitting it would be a nightmare. I think my solution will be the best: One gives Flandria to the Netherlands, Wallony to the French, and Brussels to the papacy. I wonder why it isn't done yet, Belgium is a joke. __________________ If memory serves...

09-12-2007, 22:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ironduke Burgomaster Join Date: 08-02-03 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 6,991 Country:	If the Flemish wanted to separate, I think they ought to be able to do so. Flanders could join the Netherlands, and Wallonia could join France. Brussels could be made an international EU city, something similar to the District of Columbia. The 60-40 split and 50-50 representation is somewhat reminiscent of Lebanon (though there's no chance of the sectarian violence). __________________ The Buck Stops Here

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09-12-2007, 14:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,382 Country:	JAD, Seriously, how serious is this divide?

09-12-2007, 15:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,382 Country:	Thanks. That I have understood. What I want to know is whether this is a serious problem or not. I liked that one on 'going Dutch'!

09-12-2007, 21:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
Tarek Morgen *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 02-08-07 Location: Kassel Posts: 932 Country:	Its three a.m. my stomach hurts and I am on four different kinds of medicines, so I am in a perfect condition to solve problems concerning national and international problems. And the solution for this one is so obvious I am wondering why nobody else did think of it. To save Belgium, Germany has to invade France. Like in the past we take the shortcut through Belgium hoping to reach the French border without them surrendering to early. And like in the past this unprovoked act of aggression against Belgium will unite them in their struggle against us like in the last two world wars. And we havent invaded France in over 60 years....we are already late. (And I belive this would help to restore the American-German friendship). Further we Germans havent done anything in the last 60 years to keep our image as a warmongering nation, and maybe we can keep Elsaß-Lothringen this time.

09-12-2007, 22:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,382 Country:	Entropy, Could you explain all the various ethnicity that you mentioned. It would make things, for me, a bit clear.

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