Declaration from Turkish General Staff against anti-secularists

**Big K** · 28 Apr 07,, 09:33

Did anyone can find or see anything about it on the western press?

i have it in Turkish but it is a little bit long to translate.. :(

brief :

secularism is not a issue to discussion. it is a vital element that we all sworn to protect it!

as you know theres a islamic party which have now PM, president of the assembly, and finally the strongest candidate for presidency.

**Amled** · 28 Apr 07,, 14:33

Originally Posted by Big K

Did anyone can find or see anything about it on the western press?

There was some in the Danish Press about the General Staff being uneasy about the ongoing presidential election.
Also an article about the EU-Commission voicing concern about their (General Staff) becoming involved in the political process.

**Ray** · 28 Apr 07,, 20:10

Big K,

Here it is how the the Turk govt has reacted:

BBC NEWS | Europe | Turkish ruling party warns army

**snc128** · 28 Apr 07,, 20:33

EU and US warned Turkish general staff against a possible interference by soldiers.
i hope democracy will win at all costs

**Ray** · 28 Apr 07,, 21:30

I just hope secularism wins and not the Islamists even if they are politicians and are a part of the democratic institutions.

Of course, there should be no coups.

There should be a peoples revolution against the Islamists, like the recent Demonstration that stopped the Islamists from hijacking the country back to fundamentalism.

Mecca and religion has its own place and secular democracy has its own place.

**snc128** · 28 Apr 07,, 22:09

r u against all types of Islamic life style even though they reflect humanist fractions?
r u against ppl's choice?
r u against freewill?
let ppl be free!
and dont become a real fundamentalist against Islam?
most probably,fundemantalism develops roots not only by religious ppl,but also by anti religious ones...

everyone have to check him/herself out whether they behave as an extremist or not!

**Amled** · 28 Apr 07,, 22:34

Regarding the EU question, it may become moot.
If the Islamist wins power in Turkey, it will certainly heighten the already existing scepticism inside the Union against Turkish membership.
The same will be the case if the armed forces again stage a coup.

**Amled** · 28 Apr 07,, 22:39

Originally Posted by snc128

i hope democracy will win at all costs

Can democracy exist within the framework of an non-secular Islamic state?
Are not the two mutually incompatible?

**snc128** · 28 Apr 07,, 23:21

who makes up that the current gov. is not a secular one?
but,i m afraid they dont exaggerate being secular and advise us to respect ppl's religious beliefs.

**Amled** · 28 Apr 07,, 23:56

Originally Posted by snc128

who makes up that the current gov. is not a secular one?

Yes, the present government is secular, but problem we are discussing is that it is in danger of heading towards non-secular.

**snc128** · 29 Apr 07,, 00:30

Originally Posted by Amled

Yes, the present government is secular, but problem we are discussing is that it is in danger of heading towards non-secular.

i think,it is oasis of some. Gov. style of Turkiye cannot be attacked since we r a member of modern world and cooperate with almost all European democracies.criticizing Turkiye in terms of democracy and secularism cannot prevent world to witness accomplishments of current Gov. ,also means to attack almost every trusted secular Gov. in Europe.

Gov. represents public and vice versa.

also,we have to understand that becoming tightly wedged into drawn lines does never make us profit.
maybe,ur understanding of secularism is so exaggrated that prevents u see modern secularism understanding.
freedom is a more important term for me than secularism.i m not comfortable in a country that i cannot govern it freely.therefore,secularim is only a component of numerous components of democracy.

**Ray** · 29 Apr 07,, 05:13

Originally Posted by snc128

r u against all types of Islamic life style even though they reflect humanist fractions?
r u against ppl's choice?
r u against freewill?
let ppl be free!
and dont become a real fundamentalist against Islam?
most probably,fundemantalism develops roots not only by religious ppl,but also by anti religious ones...

everyone have to check him/herself out whether they behave as an extremist or not!

No, I am not against Islamic lifestyle. There are many issues that I have read about Islamic edicts on personal hygiene that I follow and tell others to follow too. Very scientific and very logical especially in hot countries (hot = temperature and not sex!)

I am against all fundamentalism, religious or otherwise and in any country including my own country.

I believe that all can follow whatever religion they want or do not want, but they should not impose their religion on others and instead use religion upon themselves to become better people - any religion! I also believe the clergy, be they padres, temple priest or mullahs or maulavis, they should not use religion as a political tool or use to to ensure that their power is not lost. They should confine themselves to religion and religion alone.

I believe that religion has no place to decide the political course of a country.

Yes, I am an anti religion fundamentalist if you wish because I want my mind to be free of dictates by anyone or any ideology that cannot be proved on ground!

It is not Islam alone that upsets me. All religions do! Especially when it is used as a political tool to impose a religious dictatorship over the people.

**Ray** · 29 Apr 07,, 05:20

Originally Posted by snc128

i think,it is oasis of some. Gov. style of Turkiye cannot be attacked since we r a member of modern world and cooperate with almost all European democracies.criticizing Turkiye in terms of democracy and secularism cannot prevent world to witness accomplishments of current Gov. ,also means to attack almost every trusted secular Gov. in Europe.

Gov. represents public and vice versa.

also,we have to understand that becoming tightly wedged into drawn lines does never make us profit.
maybe,ur understanding of secularism is so exaggrated that prevents u see modern secularism understanding.
freedom is a more important term for me than secularism.i m not comfortable in a country that i cannot govern it freely.therefore,secularim is only a component of numerous components of democracy.

You talk of freedom of the mind. Very correct, if I may say. Yes, the mind should be free.

Like the Church or the Imam can influence thoughts, so does the govt. Therefore, a govt that is Islamic in mindset can cleverly and subtly nudge the population into a religion oriented mindset.

Take the case of smoking in public. The western govt has slowly changed the mindset into believing that it is harmful. But have they shown the same alacrity and dedication towards pollution? Both smoking and pollution are harmful and the latter is more. But then the govt can't exist without industries to run the economy. Thus, selective indoctrination to suit its purpose. Likewise, a religion oriented govt can selectively change the mindset and impinge upon the freedom of the mind that you talk about!

Let the govt govern but let them not set your lifestyle.

Let the govt not force someone not to perform his five prayers if he is a Moslem, but at the same time not subtly suggest that wearing a headscarf is what Allah desires by making the PM's wife flaunt it as the height of religious obedience and loyalty. Who is she to suggest indirectly anyone's lifestyle?

**~~AlpErTunga~~** · 29 Apr 07,, 15:14

I am full against to any expression about Islam in politics. Secularism is the base of all freedoms.

Turkey is the only Muslim country that has democracy, freedom of speech and an international lifestyle and that is not a coincidence. It's because of Ataturk's ideas and the Turkish army's care and attention.

Religion does not belong to states, groups or any other thing about world affairs. The religion grows in hearts individually. Then religion is clean and most valuable. In otherwise religion is an equipment to trick, drive people in order to service to temporary emotions of some groups.

This declaration should not be understood as a attempt to threat democrasy. Just oppositely; it is the guarantee of that Turkiye will never excuse ideas of medieval ages and will never be an Iran or any other teocratic, unrealist country. We made the first anti-imperialist and the first secularist national revolution in 1922 and will never let anyone to destroy this Renaisance of Eastern World.

Military declaration is nothing,also, th emost important one is that over 1,5 million Turks protesting anti-secularists in the Caglayan Square/ Istanbul. Real civillian power and the expression of democracy is that. THANKS TO ATATURK AND HIS GENERATION!

**Big K** · 29 Apr 07,, 18:55

I was there, at Caglayan Square, and we were thousands, even millions over there.

we are the children of ATATURK!

we are all moslem and secular at the same time!

and

it was a fully democratic move and they (govn) should see that people dont want them any more!