Thread: Islam could become Europe’s dominant religion

From what I understand, europeans have effectively abandoned religion. Attendance has been sliding for decades. This is a huge opportunity for muslims to take advantage of and it is only a matter of time before they are not only the dominate religion, but the population majority as there is nothing Europe can do, or is willing to do about it. I expect europeans to do what they are best at. Sticking their heads in the ground and hope the problems go away, aurgue relentlessly about what has to be done, but never agree to do anything, and blame other countries for any change that does develope.

The author says that unless christians and muslims learn to compromise there will a "danger of a clash between the two cultures." Hello. That day is here. We have been clashing for centuries and that is not going away untill one or the other religion becomes absolute. One does not compromise when it comes to religion.

Somehow I find this a bit alarmist -- thought I don't doubt that Islam will be the most widely practiced religion in Western Europe in the not-to-distant future, albeit for a relatively brief period, I don't believe Muslims will become a majority.

There is a vast amount of secularization in North Africa, Middle East, Turkey, Iran, etc. Turkey and Iran are right at replacement level. Birth rates are rapidly matching those seen in Western Europe, and I suspect that these trends are even more rapidly being approached by immigrants and their descendants in Europe.

I believe Islam will eventually become something that people self-identify as culturally, much like Catholics in France, but don't practice. As far as younger people (2nd generation) becoming more devout -- I think this may have a bit to do with alienation from the society they live in, which could be broadly reversed by government actions.

One thing is for certain -- European countries are practicing "humanitarian" immigration policies... these policies are easily exploited by those who immigrate with ulterior purposes. Europe needs to decrease its entitlement programs, create an incentive to work, adopt more correct immigration policies, deport first-generation trouble-makers, and dismantle the urban ghettos to mitigate the problems that arise from insularity and feelings of alienations in immigrant communities.

Well one thing that i know a bit,

conversion in germany is the new age of nazism, many neo-nazis are converting as they normally can wage war against their fellow counterparts more easily.

check any neo nazi forum and you'll find a dedicated thread to jihad and stuffs.....




bonehead, about compromise i dont really agree with your extreme philosophy.
PEOPLE HAVE TO COMPROMISE ELSE WORLD IS DOOMED.matter is HOW WILL one make another compromise.but what i see is "when your in rome be a roman", so the one to stay in arab should compromise more for islam the one in europe should compromise more for their national laws.


no one should think a book to be gospel truth and lead life as per that because i can show you every such book[from all religion]to contains hatred or mis-logics.

I sometimes REALLY prefer US over any country for its GOVERNMENT system.

Originally Posted by Ironduke

One thing is for certain -- European countries are practicing "humanitarian" immigration policies... these policies are easily exploited by those who immigrate with ulterior purposes. Europe needs to decrease its entitlement programs, create an incentive to work, adopt more correct immigration policies, deport first-generation trouble-makers, and dismantle the urban ghettos to mitigate the problems that arise from insularity and feelings of alienations in immigrant communities.

Stand for the European elections. You will get a lot of support if you make those points your platform.

There should be absolute nationalistic approach, not 11th century style gathering for ummah irrespective of nations.

The nation your living in, you should die for it irrespective of religion/caste/sex/creed and one should upheld/hail constitutional law of that nation over any religious law.

i see here is where the problem chips in.but this has to be done for the greater interest of humanity.

Reminds of of something pubfather said,

"We need knowledge, not religion".

Originally Posted by joey

Reminds of of something pubfather said,

"We need knowledge, not religion".

I agree with that statement, one of the reasons IMO why attendances in church are falling, real simple in general people are not ruled by fear in western religions,they can make a choice, Islam will continue to flourish the way it is as long as it is fear based.

Originally Posted by glyn

Stand for the European elections. You will get a lot of support if you make those points your platform.

Monsieur Wickett, MEP, EPP-ED?

Originally Posted by joey

bonehead, about compromise i dont really agree with your extreme philosophy.
PEOPLE HAVE TO COMPROMISE ELSE WORLD IS DOOMED.matter is HOW WILL one make another compromise.but what i see is "when your in rome be a roman", so the one to stay in arab should compromise more for islam the one in europe should compromise more for their national laws.


no one should think a book to be gospel truth and lead life as per that because i can show you every such book[from all religion]to contains hatred or mis-logics.

I sometimes REALLY prefer US over any country for its GOVERNMENT system.

People compromise all the time in other parts of their lives(and there is nothing wrong in that), but to be truly devout in your religious beliefs you have to get off the fence and hold on to the faith. Otherwise, why hold a faith at all? That is what religion is about.

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Somehow I find this a bit alarmist -- thought I don't doubt that Islam will be the most widely practiced religion in Western Europe in the not-to-distant future, albeit for a relatively brief period, I don't believe Muslims will become a majority.

There is a vast amount of secularization in North Africa, Middle East, Turkey, Iran, etc. Turkey and Iran are right at replacement level. Birth rates are rapidly matching those seen in Western Europe, and I suspect that these trends are even more rapidly being approached by immigrants and their descendants in Europe.

I believe Islam will eventually become something that people self-identify as culturally, much like Catholics in France, but don't practice. As far as younger people (2nd generation) becoming more devout -- I think this may have a bit to do with alienation from the society they live in, which could be broadly reversed by government actions.

One thing is for certain -- European countries are practicing "humanitarian" immigration policies... these policies are easily exploited by those who immigrate with ulterior purposes. Europe needs to decrease its entitlement programs, create an incentive to work, adopt more correct immigration policies, deport first-generation trouble-makers, and dismantle the urban ghettos to mitigate the problems that arise from insularity and feelings of alienations in immigrant communities.

The muslims I have known have more unity and identify with their faith much more than french Catholics. Muslims play the, "the whole world is against us muslims" card very well. Though they have rather animated political discussions, they always seem to vote as one block.(as long as there are no sunni vs shea issues, then all bets are off) If/when they do capture voting majorities in europe, the political landscape of europe will change overnight. Then guess who will decide the issues in europe?

This storm is still a long way away, but it is approaching.

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Somehow I find this a bit alarmist -- thought I don't doubt that Islam will be the most widely practiced religion in Western Europe in the not-to-distant future, albeit for a relatively brief period, I don't believe Muslims will become a majority.

There is a vast amount of secularization in North Africa, Middle East, Turkey, Iran, etc. Turkey and Iran are right at replacement level. Birth rates are rapidly matching those seen in Western Europe, and I suspect that these trends are even more rapidly being approached by immigrants and their descendants in Europe.

I believe Islam will eventually become something that people self-identify as culturally, much like Catholics in France, but don't practice. As far as younger people (2nd generation) becoming more devout -- I think this may have a bit to do with alienation from the society they live in, which could be broadly reversed by government actions.

One thing is for certain -- European countries are practicing "humanitarian" immigration policies... these policies are easily exploited by those who immigrate with ulterior purposes. Europe needs to decrease its entitlement programs, create an incentive to work, adopt more correct immigration policies, deport first-generation trouble-makers, and dismantle the urban ghettos to mitigate the problems that arise from insularity and feelings of alienations in immigrant communities.

The muslims I have known have more unity and identify with their faith much more than french Catholics. Muslims play the, "the whole world is against us muslims" card very well. Though they have rather animated political discussions, they always seem to vote as one block.(as long as there are no sunni vs shea issues, then all bets are off) If/when they do capture voting majorities in europe, the political landscape of europe will change overnight. Then guess who will decide the issues in europe?

This storm is still a long way away, but it is approaching.

bonehead,

People compromise all the time in other parts of their lives(and there is nothing wrong in that), but to be truly devout in your religious beliefs you have to get off the fence and hold on to the faith. Otherwise, why hold a faith at all? That is what religion is about.

are you telling me that the widely held christian beliefs- either protestant or catholic- are the same as those that were held during the time of the Reformation, or the Crusades, or Pre-Nicaean Council, or the Roman era?

do christians still believe in spreading christianity by the sword? forced mass conversions? burning heretics at the stake? do we still hold inquisitions? when was the last time you heard a cardinal utter, "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset" ("Kill them all, God will know his own")? hell, some of the early christians were absolutely begging the roman empire to martyr them for the cause.

compromise and change have been a fundamental part of religion, same as any other facet of human life.

Originally Posted by astralis

bonehead,



are you telling me that the widely held christian beliefs- either protestant or catholic- are the same as those that were held during the time of the Reformation, or the Crusades, or Pre-Nicaean Council, or the Roman era?

do christians still believe in spreading christianity by the sword? forced mass conversions? burning heretics at the stake? do we still hold inquisitions? when was the last time you heard a cardinal utter, "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset" ("Kill them all, God will know his own")? hell, some of the early christians were absolutely begging the roman empire to martyr them for the cause.

compromise and change have been a fundamental part of religion, same as any other facet of human life.

Some people NEVER believed in pursuing the atrocracies you mentioned and that has not changed. What the catholic church had done in those times are worse than what the nazis did in the last century. Those were sins of the pope and did not reflect the message of true christianity. Secondly, if you followed the child molestation cases of the catholic church, you would see they have changed little over time as they still think they can get away with things we all know are not right. God only knows what the Catholic church would be today if it still held the power it once held.

I was origionally refering to religion mostly in a personal term and less in a general term when it comes to compromising.

Many of the core beliefs in the protestant/catholic religions have been found to be universal over time. The lack of manuscripts/books of early religion combined with translation errors had made the exact meaning of the messages rather difficult. Then as with any history, whomever writes it/ translated it can alter newer versions. Even simple typos can lead to problems. Interpretation has always been the source of debate for religion.

Protestants left the catholic church then later splintered into many of the denominations mainly because of different interpretation of beliefs and not because the core beliefs have changed.

If you are looking at Islam and Christianity suddenly bridging the gulf between them and having the great compromise, you are quite the optimist. Neither side has any true leader for such negotiations except God himself. The pope may be the leader of his little world, but he simply does not lead or speak for christianity as a whole. Islam sunnis and sheas would have to settle their own differences before recognizing any single leader of islam. These two groups have been at each other's throats for how long?

I see the animosity between Christians and Muslims have changed little over the centuries, and it has gotten far worse over the last decade. Some mighty big changes have to happen before that compromise is made so I am not holding my breath.