A nation's blunt refusal to back down to terror

Ray · 01-15-2007, 03:44 AM

Quote:

A nation's blunt refusal to back down to terror

Australians are sometimes accused of being direct, even blunt. But this way of going about things seems to have worked well enough when dealing with the threat of radical Islamism Down Under. Its approach is worthy of close examination — not least in Britain. And what has been accomplished so far, though controversial, has been done with a high degree of bipartisan co-operation.

Like other predominantly Anglo-Celtic nations, Australia is a tolerant and accepting society — in spite of what some members of the domestic left intelligentsia and the civil liberties lobby proclaim. While not without racial tensions, Australia has a relatively low level of ethnically motivated crime and a relatively high level of inter-marriage between the numerous ethnic groups.

Jamaah Islamiyah’s bombs, which exploded at the Bali tourist resort in Indonesia on October 12, 2002, brought civilian Australians into the front line. Some 20 Australians were murdered on 9/11. The Australian death toll at Bali was 88 — a horrendous toll for a population that is about a third that of Britain.

Australia’s Prime Minister, John Howard, happened to be in Washington on 9/11. Australia immediately committed special forces to the war against the Taleban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, which was under way when Mr Howard’s Liberal-National Party conservative coalition defeated Labor, led by Kim Beazley, at the election in November 2001. Labor supported Australia’s commitment in Afghanistan but opposed Mr Howard’s decision to commit Australia to the “coalition of the willing” in Iraq (in support of the US and Britain) in 2003.

Despite their differences on Iraq, the major parties have been more or less united on the need for a tough-minded approach to national security.

Since 9/11 — and particularly since the Bali bombing — the debate on national security in Australia has been frank. Australia is an immigrant nation and Muslims have been part of the immigrant experience for more than a century. Muslims from Afghanistan, Turkey and South-East Asia, among other places, have settled in well and made a significant contribution to Australian society. Yet, as in other Western democracies, there is a radical Islamist presence in Australia that has been growing in recent years and that owes its allegiance to Wahhabism and the Muslim Brotherhood.

The composition of the Australian Muslim population is significantly different from that of Britain. Radical Muslims — or their parents or grandparents — have come mostly from Lebanon or North Africa, with some from the sub-continent. In addition there are a few home-grown converts to the cause — the best known of whom are David Hicks, who is held at Guantanamo Bay, and Jack Thomas.

The evidence indicates that all radical Islamists in Australia were either born there or entered the country on valid visas. Asylum seekers, who arrived unlawfully, have not comprised a potential threat to national security.

Put briefly, the Australian system takes Islamist ideology seriously. It does not deal with radical Islamists. It confronts extremists’ views, rather than seeking to co-opt “pragmatic” radicals who happen not to be in favour of the use of violence in the here and now for purely tactical reasons. After the bombings of 7/7 in London, Tony Blair declared correctly that “the rules of the game had changed”. In Australia the rules changed dramatically some time earlier. A few recent examples illustrate the point.

After the shock of 7/7 Mr Howard established a Muslim Community Reference Group and said that no radicals would be invited to join. When Sheikh Taj Aldin al-Hilali (the Mufti of Australia) ventured into Holocaust denial, Andrew Robb (the Parliamentary Secretary for Multiculturalism) let it be known that he would not be reappointed to the group. Last February Peter Costello (Mr Howard’s deputy) publicly declared that, if the radical Muslim cleric Abdul Nasser Ben Brika really wanted to live under Sharia law, he might choose voluntary deportation to Iran. The next month the Prime Minister told Reuters TV that Australia could not ignore “that there is a small section of the Islamic population which identifies with some of the more extremist views associated with support of terrorism”.

There remains a significant terror threat in Australia — with some convictions for terrorist-related offences and a number of Muslim men in Sydney and Melbourne awaiting trial on serious charges. However, the tough line on security seems to have worked well and there have been no terrorist attacks.

The Howard Government has let it be known that radical Islamism is also a threat to the overwhelming majority of the Muslim community and reminded its leaders of their responsibilities to resolve potential problems in their own self-interest. This approach has strengthened the position of moderate Muslims.

Meanwhile, the conservatives, with the support of social democrats, have advanced the cause of citizenship tests as a means of emphasising that all who choose to live in Australia are expected to sign-on to our democratic values. Moreover, imams have been advised to preach in English. There is little backing in Australia for the extremist right-wing view that Muslim immigration should be banned. But there is bipartisan support for tackling the real threat posed by radical Islamism in a direct, even blunt, manner.

in full
www.timesonline.co.uk/...33,00.html

Compare this with Britain!

Callmecur · 01-15-2007, 04:09 AM

No comparison - Britain is scared of upsetting minorities as it does not wish to be seen as being a bully - too much of a hangover from the days of the Empire where we seem to be harbouring a guilt complex (or rather the politician seem to be). I like Australia's stance and approach to the potential threat coming from within; they've always been outspoken and with them a spade is a spade. Oh, how I wish the British could be like them (and wish we could play cricket like them too

)

**Parihaka** · 01-15-2007, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Compare this with Britain!

Good lord Ray, something good about Australia?

Ray · 01-15-2007, 10:29 AM

Nothing wrong with these people actually, except their being a trifle boorish and crass!

A very wild and unpredictable bunch too!

Would prove to be an embarrassment at any English Lord's manor, in a manner of speaking, that is!

Seahorse · 01-15-2007, 10:40 AM

Awesome post, Sir. Credit shud b given where it is due. Aussies deserve credit for taking the bull by the horns (pun intended

).
Though I am still against wht that blunt Aussie Greg Chappel did to our beloved Saurav dada.

can't b forgiven.

Ray · 01-15-2007, 10:53 AM

Chappel is not on my mind and I don't really care much about Ganguli and his antics or for that matter that failed icon , Tendulkar.

However, my comment is in a general manner of speaking about the average chap.

I have met some excellent and cultured Australians too! They and the wives were real decent, nice and kind.

But then I have met some real wild ones in my school too!

I will never forget their baiting the English boys (not Anglo Indians) and thrashing them for no good reason! Wild!

They got along real well with the Indian boys in my school!

Tronic · 01-15-2007, 12:37 PM

sir, just a correction.... not "failed" icon, considering he is "god" to many... "over-aged" would be a better word...

Canmoore · 01-15-2007, 12:54 PM

I agree, the Aussies are doing a stand-up job when it comes to not backing down in the face of Terrorism.

Reminds me of a song done by Tom Petty.

Well I won't back down
No I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won't back down

No I'll stand my ground, won't be turned around
And I'll keep this world from draggin me down
gonna stand my ground
... and I won't back down

I won't back down...
Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
and I won't back down...
hey I will stand my ground
and I won't back down

Well I know what's right, I got just one life
in a world that keeps on pushin me around
but I'll stand my ground
...and I won't back down

I won't back down...
Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
and I won't back down...
hey I will stand my ground
I won't back down
and I won't back down...

I won't back down...
Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
I won't back down
hey I won't back down
and I won't back down
hey baby, there ain't no easy way out
and I won't back down
hey I will stand my ground
and I won't back down
and I won't back down
I won't back down

No I won't back down...

Ray · 01-15-2007, 13:07 PM

Tronic,

I don't like the cricketers.

Over hyped punks who always fail!

I hate perpetual losers and those who put Self Before Service!

Won't play Ranji by reporting sick and yet they are fit to do their commercials and mint money! Or refusing to pay import duty for free cars! as if they have any dearth of money and are starving!

Selfish blokes!

**TopHatter** · 01-15-2007, 14:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canmoore

I agree, the Aussies are doing a stand-up job when it comes to not backing down in the face of Terrorism.

Reminds me of a song done by Tom Petty.

Very appropriate song Canmoore, and one of my favorites from back in the day

Economist · 01-15-2007, 15:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Callmecur

No comparison - Britain is scared of upsetting minorities as it does not wish to be seen as being a bully - too much of a hangover from the days of the Empire where we seem to be harbouring a guilt complex (or rather the politician seem to be). I like Australia's stance and approach to the potential threat coming from within; they've always been outspoken and with them a spade is a spade. Oh, how I wish the British could be like them (and wish we could play cricket like them too

)

Well can't blame anyone. This is one grave the British have dug themselves.

Had they been more pro-active in the early 90s and had paid attention to what the FRENCH had to say about the Algerian dispora in UK and co-operated with DSG, things might have been better.

Bluesman · 01-15-2007, 15:35 PM

As evidenced of my many posts re: Australia's role in the war and who I consider to be America's most dependable ally, I've been beating this drum for awhile now.

Do a search for Bluesman and Australia. I'm on record WAY back thar.

Economist · 01-15-2007, 15:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman

As evidenced of my many posts re: Australia's role in the war and who I consider to be America's most dependable ally, I've been beating this drum for awhile now.

Do a search for Bluesman and Australia. I'm on record WAY back thar.

~}

What about the "SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP"

Bluesman · 01-15-2007, 16:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Economist

~}

What about the "SPECIAL RELATIONSHIP"

Awright, settle ya'sel'. I'm talking about the deep level of commitment throughout the streets of various countries, and frankly, I don't think you're going to get the astonishingly-high level of ignorant anti-Americanism that occasionally fills the streets of Londonistan to overflowing anywhere in Oz, including, incredibly enough, the universities.

But of course, you're absolutely correct: the one enduring closer-than-all-the-rest tie we have is to Dear Old Mum. I wouldn't change that for anything...but some of your countrymen are all to eager to do exactly that.

Economist · 01-15-2007, 16:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Awright, settle ya'sel'. I'm talking about the deep level of commitment throughout the streets of various countries, and frankly, I don't think you're going to get the astonishingly-high level of ignorant anti-Americanism that occasionally fills the streets of Londonistan to overflowing anywhere in Oz, including, incredibly enough, the universities.

But of course, you're absolutely correct: the one enduring closer-than-all-the-rest tie we have is to Dear Old Mum. I wouldn't change that for anything...but some of your countrymen are all to eager to do exactly that.

Anti-Americanism is something a part of the British society and it is here to stay.

Good part is the leadership thinks otherwise and this is what matters.

No matter who leads UK, they will know that the only way forward is by siding with the US.

01-15-2007, 10:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
Seahorse Regular Join Date: 12-22-06 Posts: 28 Country:	Awesome post, Sir. Credit shud b given where it is due. Aussies deserve credit for taking the bull by the horns (pun intended ). Though I am still against wht that blunt Aussie Greg Chappel did to our beloved Saurav dada. can't b forgiven. __________________ *Shano Varuna*

01-15-2007, 12:37 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tronic Navajo Code Talker *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 12-27-04 Location: Patiala, India Posts: 5,433 Country:	sir, just a correction.... not "failed" icon, considering he is "god" to many... "over-aged" would be a better word... __________________ *Nabha Sparasham Deeptam* *-Touch The Sky With Glory*

01-15-2007, 15:35 PM	#12 (permalink)
Bluesman WAB Bartender *Defense Professional* *Military Professional* Join Date: 11-24-04 Location: Vacaville, CA. Posts: 7,514 Country:	As evidenced of my many posts re: Australia's role in the war and who I consider to be America's most dependable ally, I've been beating this drum for awhile now. Do a search for Bluesman and Australia. I'm on record WAY back thar. __________________ "The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory." - George Orwell

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01-15-2007, 04:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Callmecur *Military Professional* Join Date: 01-09-07 Location: Eastern England Posts: 228 Country:	No comparison - Britain is scared of upsetting minorities as it does not wish to be seen as being a bully - too much of a hangover from the days of the Empire where we seem to be harbouring a guilt complex (or rather the politician seem to be). I like Australia's stance and approach to the potential threat coming from within; they've always been outspoken and with them a spade is a spade. Oh, how I wish the British could be like them (and wish we could play cricket like them too )

01-15-2007, 10:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,236 Country:	Nothing wrong with these people actually, except their being a trifle boorish and crass! A very wild and unpredictable bunch too! Would prove to be an embarrassment at any English Lord's manor, in a manner of speaking, that is!

01-15-2007, 10:53 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,236 Country:	Chappel is not on my mind and I don't really care much about Ganguli and his antics or for that matter that failed icon , Tendulkar. However, my comment is in a general manner of speaking about the average chap. I have met some excellent and cultured Australians too! They and the wives were real decent, nice and kind. But then I have met some real wild ones in my school too! I will never forget their baiting the English boys (not Anglo Indians) and thrashing them for no good reason! Wild! They got along real well with the Indian boys in my school!

01-15-2007, 12:54 PM	#8 (permalink)
Canmoore *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 05-18-06 Location: Canada Posts: 1,359 Country:	I agree, the Aussies are doing a stand-up job when it comes to not backing down in the face of Terrorism. Reminds me of a song done by Tom Petty. Well I won't back down No I won't back down You can stand me up at the gates of hell But I won't back down No I'll stand my ground, won't be turned around And I'll keep this world from draggin me down gonna stand my ground ... and I won't back down I won't back down... Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out and I won't back down... hey I will stand my ground and I won't back down Well I know what's right, I got just one life in a world that keeps on pushin me around but I'll stand my ground ...and I won't back down I won't back down... Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out and I won't back down... hey I will stand my ground I won't back down and I won't back down... I won't back down... Hey baby, there ain't no easy way out I won't back down hey I won't back down and I won't back down hey baby, there ain't no easy way out and I won't back down hey I will stand my ground and I won't back down and I won't back down I won't back down No I won't back down...

01-15-2007, 13:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 28,236 Country:	Tronic, I don't like the cricketers. Over hyped punks who always fail! I hate perpetual losers and those who put Self Before Service! Won't play Ranji by reporting sick and yet they are fit to do their commercials and mint money! Or refusing to pay import duty for free cars! as if they have any dearth of money and are starving! Selfish blokes!

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