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Thread: Bliar in the Dock?

  1. #16
    Ray
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    Bliar is such an idiot that all the good things he may have done would be forgotten since he overplayed his hand of Rule Britannica hanging on to V|Bus's coattails!

    Never thought a British PM to be that stupid - a country that ruled the world by making an ass of all!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    Bliar is such an idiot that all the good things he may have done would be forgotten since he overplayed his hand of Rule Britannica hanging on to V|Bus's coattails!

    Never thought a British PM to be that stupid - a country that ruled the world by making an ass of all!
    I think that is doing him a disservice. I think that in the months after 9/11 Blair's world tour helped to bring mulim nations onside, or at least not openly against. I think that took a problem that could easily have been US Vs Islam (which is what Bin Laden wanted) into US Vs terrorism (which is something that could be fought).

    For Blair to play that hand, a hand that the US was incapable to perform itself (either through political will or public posturing) he had to be part of the coalition.

    Certainly i think that part of his motive was to raise his stature above that of other world leaders, but even so i think he genuinely felt that supporting the US was the right thing to do.

    He has definitely gone the wrong way in this support a few times. It's clear Bush has got more out of Blair than Blair has got out of Bush. For example, the travesty that is the asymmetric anti-terrorism extradition legislation. Not only should this law never have been passed in an asymmetric form, but it has already been abused in the case of the Enron related bankers.

  3. #18
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    Gentlemen, Bliar's place in history is assured. But it will not be for his Administration's good things, as he and many others believe, but for the destruction of Britain and its former fine institutions. The die is cast for the separation of Scotland from England, and England from Scotland as the West Lothian question is resolved. His junketing abroad is seen as being no different from less than august predecessors wishing distraction from tiresome home affairs and incompetent subordinates. He has severly damaged the body politic to the extent that there is increasingly open disregard of, let alone respect for, law and those engaged in its processes. In effect he has placed the nation on an unsustainable course that can only result in further national decline and erosion of its traditional libertarian character. Comparisons with the centralist, control-freakery and dead-hand of the former Soviet Union is actively and openly being discussed.

    His successors will have a humungeous task to undo this huge 10-year demolition job, but finding the right person is the uncertainty right now. And the more extreme alternatives to the 'third' way are recruiting!

  4. #19
    Ray
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    Hear! Hear!

    So sagaciously, incisively put by 'the other Colonel' and that too with alacrity!

    Thank heavens we have him on this board!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciderpress View Post
    Comparisons with the centralist, control-freakery and dead-hand of the former Soviet Union is actively and openly being discussed.
    Oh the hyperbole!

    Have i missed the gulags that cover the South West stuffed full of political prisoners?

    I must also have a broken TV because i can't receive the state controlled media (you know even the state owned media went straight into bat against Blair's government over sexing up, the dodgy dossier etc) pumping out propaganda - i get reality shows. Are those people the idea British Soviet workers?
    I thought Jade Goody on Celebrity Big Brother was just thick what with her not knowing where East "angular" was but your talk of Union of British Socialist Kingdoms explains entirely what she meant by "The modern bourgeois society that has sprouted from the ruins of feudal society has not done away with class antagonisms. It has but established new classes, new conditions of oppression, new forms of struggle in place of the old ones."

    I will ask my friends who have primary school aged children if they are being coerced into become gymnasts, violinists etc, with no chance for them or their parents to allow them to explore their own dreams.

    But, you are right. The shortages are terrible I simply can't find a loaf of half-baked focaccia after 1am in the morning. Won't someone do something?

    Who are these people who are discussing such things - where can i sign up. Do we get a secret handshake?

  6. #21
    Ray
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    What point are you are trying to convey?

    One could understand what Ciderpress conveyed, but I must confess I am a trifle nonplussed with your post!
    Last edited by Ray; 15 Jan 07, at 04:40.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  7. #22
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    Well, Tony Blair is not very well liked even inside Labour right?

    I mean, I read somewhere that one his own MP's described his latest 'Blair doctrine' speech as ' the delusional ramblings of a lame-duck leader '.
    "There is no excellence in all this world that can be separated from right living." - David Star Jordan My Blog

  8. #23
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    regarding blair's popularity,

    oh, blair was quite popular when he was leading labour to stunning wins, on the strength of the moderate positions of new labour. old labour, though- the socialists and the commies- never liked blair, and consider him a capitalist sellout. the antiwar people, too, regarded blair's support of the iraq war as nothing less than a complete denunciation of the previous principles of old labour.

    thus, the charge that blair is not popular within his own party does not hold much weight with me- i personally think those elements of the party whom are anti-blair are NOT exactly the ideological brothers of the conservatives (unless you mean those whom are anti-blair because it is the 'in' thing to do). for the socialists and the commies, those are the people labour can do well without.

    funny how his main ideological opponent, mr david cameron, has called himself the "true heir to blair" in the past! for all the weaknesses of blair, how many would rather have one of the scions of OLD labour leading the UK?
    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."Ě- Isaac Asimov

  9. #24
    Ray
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    Though a trifle dated, the source is impeccable.


    Blair’s popularity hits all time low

    Christopher Adams, Political Correspondent

    Published: July 30 2006 21:11 | Last updated: July 30 2006 21:11

    Public support for Tony Blair, British prime minister, has plunged to its lowest since he became premier, according to a new poll that shows growing disapproval over how he has handled the Middle East crisis.

    The survey by Ipsos MORI, carried out this month as the US and Britain blocked international calls for an immediate ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon, found Mr Blair’s personal popularity at an all-time low.

    The prime minister, who is facing unease in the British cabinet over his closeness to George W. Bush, appears to have lost more public support for his backing of the US president’s strategy than he did over Britain’s involvement in the Iraq war three years ago.

    The survey findings, which one senior British minister on Sunday gloomily conceded were “unsurprising”, could stoke calls within the Labour party for Mr Blair to use September’s party conference to announce a timetable for his departure.

    Ipsos MORI found 67 per cent of respondents were dissatisfied with the way Mr Blair was doing his job, while only 23 per cent were satisfied.

    The negative balance of 44 was his lowest recorded rating and sharply down on June.

    Among Labour supporters, fewer than half said they were satisfied with the prime minister.

    Further evidence of dissent in Mr Blair’s cabinet over his handling of the crisis emerged at the weekend when Jack Straw, former foreign secretary, reflected the concern of several ministers by describing Israel’s bombing of Lebanon as “disproportionate”.

    Some senior colleagues and a large number of Mr Blair’s Labour party MPs want the prime minister to break ranks with Mr Bush and demand an immediate halt to the fighting.

    One British cabinet minster told the Financial Times that there was unhappiness at the apparent failure to stop the “wanton destruction” in Lebanon.

    Mr Straw, leader of the House of Commons, warned that a continuation of Israeli military action in Lebanon “could further destabilise the already fragile Lebanese nation”.

    Mr Blair defended his stance and denied reports of cabinet divisions.

    He said a ceasefire could be achieved within days if the international community acted with urgency. Downing Street neither endorsed nor criticised Mr Straw’s remarks.

    The survey showed support for Labour among people certain to vote in a general election dipped from June’s 33 per cent to 32 per cent, while the main opposition Conservative party remained steady at 36 per cent.

    The opposition Liberal Democrats, whose leader Sir Menzies Campbell has called for an immediate halt to fighting, saw its rating rise from 21 to 24 per cent.

    As during the Iraq war, the importance of foreign affairs and defence has risen in voters’ minds. Thirty-six per cent identified this issue as among the most important facing Britain, placing it ahead of health and just behind immigration and crime in first and second place.

    Despite the unhappiness with Mr Blair, the survey findings also make disappointing reading for David Cameron, Conservative leader.

    Far from benefiting from the prime minster’s diminishing popularity, Mr Cameron’s approval ratings have fallen, the first real evidence that his honeymoon as party leader is over. For the first time, more people are dissatisfied than satisfied with his performance.

    MORI polled 2019 British adults between 20 and 24 July.

    Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2006

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/46dff968-1fe...0779e2340.html
    His popularity is worse right now as one knows if one has been following the British news.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    What point are you are trying to convey?

    One could understand what Ciderpress conveyed, but I must confess I am a trifle nonplussed with your post!
    It is pretty clear. It is a satirical comment on the idea you can compare Tony Blair and New Labour to Stalin's Soviet Union.

  11. #26
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    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  12. #27
    Ray
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    Troops on Web warpath over Blair military remark
    Reuters Tuesday January 16, 03:27 PM



    LONDON (Reuters) - Soldiers have responded angrily to a remark by Prime Minister Tony Blair in which he said those in the military must accept that they may be called on to face danger.

    In a speech last Friday on defence policy, Blair said: "On the part of the military, they need to accept that, in a volunteer armed force, conflict and therefore casualty may be part of what they are called upon to face."

    Dozens of serving and former soldiers began posting angry responses on Monday to this part of Blair's speech on an online forum hosted by the Army Rumour Service ARRSE - British Army Rumour Service. THE Unofficial British Army Community Site, an unofficial Web site for military personnel.

    "Having never served, HOW...DARE YOU make a comment like that," one forum user wrote under the pen name "RFUK", prompting a string of supportive replies.

    "The finest, brightest, strongest, bravest young men and women...signed on the dotted line in selfless service of their country and you BETRAYED them by sending them into unsound conflict without adequate support," RFUK said.

    The Defence Ministry had no immediate comment.

    Another user, "RECMEC", said RFUK's views echoed those of "the vast majority of our brave soldiers who are asked to lay their lives on the line for a foreign policy that is misconceived and poorly thought out".

    Blair's support for the U.S.-led war in Iraq has become increasingly unpopular at home, opinion polls show, but criticism from within the ranks of the military has been muted.

    Blair paid tribute to the bravery of British troops in Afghanistan at a news conference on Tuesday.

    "The troops there are doing the most incredible job and its worth just realising that some of them are in circumstances of extraordinary danger and yet fighting the Taliban with a bravery that we should be very, very proud of as a country," he said.

    Several of those on the online military forum complained that they had inadequate equipment when serving abroad and insufficient support when they came home.

    "Soldiers returning from active service do not get the care they deserve, especially those with traumatic stress issues (PTSD)," wrote REMEC, adding that a friend decorated for bravery in Iraq had committed suicide.

    Some were more supportive of the prime minister, who has said he will step down this year.

    "It's ok to sit thousands of miles away and criticise the government. But when you see what really happened in Iraq under Saddam you may change your opinion slightly," wrote "paveway_3", who described taking part in the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and unearthing mass graves of Iraqis killed under Saddam.
    Troops on Web warpath over Blair military remark - Yahoo! News UK


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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