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Reply With QuoteTo get laid. From those 70+ Hot virgin chicks. I'm telling you just give them hot chicks and they'd quit this silly business.What do the terrorists want?
I am going to display my ignorance now, but that's ok, because all of you can enlighten me!
I have some ideas on what the terrorists (the Islamic terrorists for this thread) want, but I have only an outsider's perspective and it is very difficult to sift through news from around the world, trying to find the least biased reports.
I'm not even sure if it's one or a few things anymore, there seem to be several offshoots since 2001.
How can this particular group of terrorists be stopped? Is there any hope of talking, coming to an agreement? Have Westerners missed something?
Finally, can anyone tell me roughly what percentage of muslims, world-wide are in support of the extremists?
I'm going to shut up now, and listen carefully.
To get laid. From those 70+ Hot virgin chicks. I'm telling you just give them hot chicks and they'd quit this silly business.What do the terrorists want?
Power, that's what they want - they want ot be able to control the resources of the so called "muslim" world, but more specifically they seek to control and redefine what "Muslim" and "Islam" mean -
they want to do this because the only way they can CONTROL and totalitarian control at that, is by terror and the creation of a cult of victimhood and the constant projection of a "other".
Non-Muslims think that Islamist terrorism is aimed at then, but the truth is that non-Muslims and in particular the West, are merely utilities, tools - the Islamist terrorist seek to to create a massive schism between Muslims and non-Muslims, this is designed not so much to hurt non-Muslims, but to isolate Muslims themselves and thereby make the Muslims more vulnerable to the message of the radical Islamist.
Actually, they want John Kerry to be the president.
The Moslems on this thread will be defensive.
But for an Objective answer from a Moslem standpoint, General Musarraf's address to the UN General Assembly may throw some light.
The enlightened Moslem don't like the terrorists and are fed up bearing the Cross; but they have to be guarded since it will not be well taken by the illiterate majority who are slowly being influence by the Wahabi scum. Notwithstanding, whether it is right or wrong, they are being driven into the corner because of the folly of an idiot, Osama bin Idiot. They feel injustice is being done to them everywhere in the world. Musharraf indirectly alluded to it.
Anger and insecurity finds release in armed protest. Given the isdlamic relgious text and belief that fighting infidels guarantees Paradise adds to the holiness of the protest. Because of obscurantism being rampant and people made to believe or indoctrinated if you wish, such obscurtantism encourages sacrifice for the religion, especially for the illiterate majority.
Lets's also be clear. Money is not a problem for 'encouragement' since most are poor. In fact, the Indians held hostage in Iraq were released because money as ransom changed hands. Therefore, to blame it on misplaced relgious fervour may also be wrong. After all, black sheep are everywhere.
The Moslem world is at a crossroad.
They are in a Catch 22 situation.
It is a most unfortuanate situation to be in. Put your feet in the shoes of the enlightened Moslems.
I have Moslem friends and Moslem jawans (soldiers); the soldiers are high school pass. I can feel their anguish that they have at this dilemma.
I have no answer for them.
The only answer, if I remember correctly, Musharraf in a guarded way, said Islam has to reform.
Sadly, the Mullahs of the Islamic shools of interpretation are not listening!
Last edited by Ray; 22 Sep 04, at 19:29.
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
I'm not sure even they know what they want (which is why the CIA has warned that a civil war could break out in Iraq) but here are some of the things I believe Iraqi's do want....
1) They want the 'Infidels' (Americans) out of their country
2) They want some type of islamic fundamentalist government...I wouldn't be surprised if it's almost exactly the same (and as hostile) as Iran's government because Allawi doesn't stand a chance as president unless the U.S. stays in Iraq for a LONG TIME.
3) They want to control their own oil. Tarek, I agree with you when you say that they WANT POWER. Doesn't every nation on earth want that as well?
I think that Bin Laden and a few hundred others wanted to redefine what Muslim and Islam mean....thanks to the baseless and costly Invasion of Iraq which is rapidly radicalizing the middle east, that number has increased by at least 1000 fold.they want ot be able to control the resources of the so called "muslim" world, but more specifically they seek to control and redefine what "Muslim" and "Islam" mean
I agree somewhat with that....but as a Canadian, I wonder why on earth many Middle eastern's actually WANT that type of islamic government. I think many islamic peoples care more that a woman doesn't wear a mini skirt rather than gain "freedom" from Bush's war in Iraq.they want to do this because the only way they can CONTROL and totalitarian control at that, is by terror and the creation of a cult of victimhood and the constant projection of a "other".
I agree VERY MUCH with this statement. The Radical muslims who are attempting to isolate islamic nations from the west are succeeding.Non-Muslims think that Islamist terrorism is aimed at then, but the truth is that non-Muslims and in particular the West, are merely utilities, tools - the Islamist terrorist seek to to create a massive schism between Muslims and non-Muslims, this is designed not so much to hurt non-Muslims, but to isolate Muslims themselves and thereby make the Muslims more vulnerable to the message of the radical Islamist.
Lastly, mostlymad posted:
If you're talking about the group of terrorists in Iraq, the answer is that they never existed in Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion.How can this particular group of terrorists be stopped? Is there any hope of talking, coming to an agreement? Have Westerners missed something?
"Is there any hope of talking? "
Not really, the insurgency has gotten so bad (and much more sophisticated) and it's only a matter of time before the Islamic world "OUTBLEEDS" the U.S. and then the United States will suffer a terrible political defeat.
The only person who could do SOME talking (in favor of the western world) with the insurgent leaders is Puppet Gov't Allawi BUT, he has lost all his credibility to Muqtada Al Sadr as well as the Grand Ayatollah in Iraq.
I bet the number is staggering and that is very scary to me....Finally, can anyone tell me roughly what percentage of muslims, world-wide are in support of the extremists?
I believe the percentage of muslims world wide that support extremists would be almost equal to the number of people (regardless of religion) that support the so called "War On Terror"....
static
"I agree with you when you say that they WANT POWER. Doesn't every nation on earth want that as well?"
Islamist terrorist are nto a nation, or nationality - they are a totalitarian political ideology whose employ a literalist methodology of interpretation in support of their "social engineering" project.
Mostly
"How can this particular group of terrorists be stopped? Is there any hope of talking, coming to an agreement? Have Westerners missed something? "
They can be stopped only by killing them, they are doing "Gods work", mere reason is a insult to them. In any case the West cannot do anything about this othere than to vigoursly pursue them, make the desimmination of their ideology COSTLY to them and those who consume it and to help rationalize the political economies in which Islamism seeks to root itself.
Only when the role of METHOD becomes the subject of public debate and discussion among Muslims will we begin to see some movement to challenge the ideological and methodology foundations of Islamism and one of it's elements, Jihadism.
IMO Al Qaeda (like the other Muslim terrorist organizations) want either 1 of 2 things:
1) To destroy Israel and takes its land
or
2) To turn the world into a ultra religous Muslim state (like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan under the Taliban)
And they target the US and other nations because we stand in their way of those goals.
what is their motivation for this, if it is true? Control, again? To have nothing that can threaten their beliefs? I somehow don't think they are trying to save infidels.Originally Posted by ChrisF202
All the non-believers are infidels and they have to be eliminated. These infedels are standing between them and their cherished way of life, after which they'll go to heaven to be with 72 virgins.
Infidels are corrupting the Islamic way of life, that they interpreted from Islam. They think that this threatens their way of life and the religion as a whole. They pretty much believe that the moderate muslims are hand in hand with infidels to destruct them.
Finally, they want to create a muslim ummah, a commn nation for all the muslims, that stretches from Turkey to Indonesia.
A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!
Now I get what Asim meant by 70 + virgins. Rather sucks if your a woman.
Threesome, get the next terrorist in line
A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!
First of all, it might be more productive if you simply abandoned the word "terrorist"...as anyone who resists the power of another by violent means is immediately labeled such, "by definition".
In the eyes of the Nazis, the French resistance fighters were "terrorists".
In the eyes of the British, the Jewish resistance fighters were "terrorists".
And in the eyes of the Israelis, the Palestinian resistance fighters are "terrorists".
"Terrorism" is in the eyes of the beholder...particularly the beholder whose power is threatened.
What "terrorism" really means is the use of violence to challenge the existing relationships of power by someone other than a "legitimate government".
"Legitimacy" also residing in the eyes of the beholder, of course.
As to what Islamic fundamentalists want, that's pretty obvious. They are clerical fascists...thus they want a theocratic fascist state that will become a "world power".
Like Iran, only more so!
They are not "nice people".
In my opinion, the United States is capable of killing them...perhaps in substantial numbers. What it is not capable of doing is defeating them...ever.
At least not on their "turf".
So, what to do?
The strongest weapon in the capitalist arsenal is not military, it's the money.
The American ruling class should bribe the ruling circles in Islamic countries to secularize their societies. This will be especially effective in Islamic countries that have no oil.
Having become secular societies, these countries should then be bribed to attack the traditional Muslim societies (who have the oil) and annex them.
Eventually, there will result a small number of large secular states with which a western capitalist "can do business" without worrying about a bomb in his car, a mortar attack on his hotel, or literally "losing his head".
Why is such an obvious solution not immediately implemented?
The ruling class "looks ahead" and tries to anticipate "problems".
One problem is that large secular republics in the Muslim world would develop their own capitalist class...who might drive a very hard bargain (and who would have the military strength to give the U.S. a very difficult time).
Yet another problem: secularization would put an end to the appeal of Islamic fundamentalism...but risk the re-birth of communism.
And who wants that?
The real key to thoroughly undermining the appeal of any religion (and accordingly its violent followers) is a direct attack on its "holiest" places...the ones that symbolize its "divine strengths" and "eternal values".
For example, if an Italian government should someday repudiate Mussolini's "treaty" with the Vatican, occupy Vatican City, and totally demolish its buildings...that would be a crushing blow to Catholicism, one from which it might never recover.
Were a future Israeli government to demolish the "Dome of the Rock", that would be a severe blow to Islam.
But the real weakness of Islam is the "holy meteorite" in Mecca...if American forces hauled it away and installed it in some famous museum in the U.S. for "infidels" to see and touch, I think it would fatally weaken Islam.
Question: How could Allah permit this outrage?
Answer: Allah doesn't exist.
Still...religion is so very useful to capitalism (and profitable on its own account), that they seem very reluctant to directly do anything to weaken it...certainly nothing as overt as seizing the "holy meteorite" or anything like that.
And there is so much money to be made in a "war on terrorism" that will never end...I can only conclude that there will be a more or less endless series of U.S. aggressions, occupations, guerrilla wars, perhaps occasional withdrawals, etc. for the remaining life of American capitalism.
It will be like the "war on drugs"...only more so.
The Redstar2000 Papers
A site about communist ideas
"All the non-believers are infidels and they have to be eliminated. These infedels are standing between them and their cherished way of life, after which they'll go to heaven to be with 72 virgins.
Infidels are corrupting the Islamic way of life, that they interpreted from Islam. "
Actually not just "infidels", but anybody, ANYBODY, who dares to challenge the authority and method and judgement of the radical Islamist, makes themselves a "enemy of God" and ofcourse eligible for being murdered.
For instance, readers may be interested to know that Mr. Musharraf of Pakistan is referred to by Pakistan's Islamists, as "Munafiq", a hypocrite - historically, when such a label is attached to a person by the religious establishment, that person's murder has gained religious sanction.
Israel, the West, these are just tools -- unfortunately, most in Israel or the West seem not to realize that they too have a role to play by refusing to be a pawn in the schemes of the radical Islamists. Consider, who were the taliban fighting? Other Muslims they had declared a Jihad on - Who are the Islamists of Pakistan fighting? Ofocurse other Muslims Pakistanis who do not share the Islamists ideology and objective - Who are the greatest enemy of the Iranian Islamist regime? Israel? America? No, their enemy is the so called Mujahideen, in Palestine, who does Hamas hate, Israel or PA, whom does it seek to depose? Ofcourse Hamas is fightinmg PA - however, note that in each case, the Islamists claims that he is fighting Israel and/or America, but more and more, this claim rings hollow. As long as the Islamist can make the case that he bears no responsibility, that the Muslim is a "VICTIM", that the "Muslim" as they define him or her, is "entitled", they will project a powerful message that appeals to emotion.
Dude, its pronounced, Muslim, not Moslem :D I read this post and it just kept feeling weirdish... Rightly said, btw.
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