Should a country's leader have dual citizenship or not?

**Asim Aquil** · 02 Jan 07,, 11:10

So you don't trust 1st and 2nd generation immigrants? That's like saying naturalized citizens are 2nd class citizens by default, even when compared to a slimy bum of the third generation?

**ajtigger** · 02 Jan 07,, 19:42

I take ENORMOUS offence to that.

I am a second generation Canadian myself, and I feel, and never have felt, any loyalty to any country other than Canada.

I don't feel that I have any allegiance or responsibility to any other country. If I wanted to run for federal office, should I be punished simply because of the fact that my parents weren't born in Canada?

Look, I have been born and raised here, and I was taught to be Canadian and was taught all about Canada in Canadian schools. I seriously know no other country, and feel that I am as Canadian as any third or fourth generation citizen. I don't feel that they have anything special about themselves that should cause them to recieve special privilages. I am as Canadian as them, thank you very much. What else do you want for me? You want me to make like Michael Jackson and change my skin colour just to prove that I am as Canadian as you?

I hold no other citizenships through parental heritage--all I have, ever have had, ever will have, and ever have known is Canadian citizenship.

There is a inexplicably gigantic danger with issuing citizenships of different classes. It is impossible to measure Canadianess by one's heritage. Only one's spirit and love for this land, and one's contributions to their community and greater society, can accurately measure Canadianess. Categorizing citizenships is borderline apartheid.

Like I said, there are many Canadians that have been here for many generations and are apolitical in nature, the same way that there are many first-generation Canadians that are unquestionably dedicated to no other country, often instigated by the circumstances that they have had to flee.

I apologize if anything I said sounds too harsh, but I truthfully and strongly hold everything I have said here as heartfelt convictions, and have no plans to temper anything that I have said on this posting.

**Jay** · 02 Jan 07,, 20:05

Originally Posted by smilingassassin

Canadians BORN in Canada, without question, and in this day and age in particular. In fact I'd go as far as to say only third generation Canadians need aply for the job.

Ridiculous and highly insulting. The1st and 2nd generation immigrants are naturalized citizens and they have EQUAL rights.

If the number of years and generation counts for jobs, then I guess the natives would step in and boot all the so called nth Gen Candians, after all they came here first.

**ajtigger** · 02 Jan 07,, 20:47

I would just like to clarify that by saying that I am a second generation Canadian, I meant that I have been born and raised in Canada, but my parents are from another country. I would appreciate it if smilingassassin could clarify exactly what he/she meant by "Third Generation Canadians".

**smilingassassin** · 03 Jan 07,, 10:57

I mean Canadians with DEEP roots in this country. Third generation is quite deep. The last thing I want is someone from another country with barely the knowlege of this nations culture and history taking the reins and turning this country into something completely different. Being Canadian isn't simply having a peice of paper stating as much, you have to understand the nation, its culture and its moral compass.

I can safely say that I'm proudly Canadian, with both my parents and grandparents being born and raised in Canada.

Natives have many more rights than other Canadians already.

...and who said anything about jobs? I'm talking about the huge responcibility of running the nation.

**ajtigger** · 03 Jan 07,, 18:08

Originally Posted by smilingassassin

I mean Canadians with DEEP roots in this country. Third generation is quite deep. The last thing I want is someone from another country with barely the knowlege of this nations culture and history taking the reins and turning this country into something completely different. Being Canadian isn't simply having a peice of paper stating as much, you have to understand the nation, its culture and its moral compass.

I can safely say that I'm proudly Canadian, with both my parents and grandparents being born and raised in Canada.

Natives have many more rights than other Canadians already.

...and who said anything about jobs? I'm talking about the huge responcibility of running the nation.

WHAT IN THE HELL DO I HAVE TO DO TO CONVINCE YOU THAT I AM CANADIAN, EVEN THOUGH MY PARENTS WERE BORN OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY??????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????????????????

Want me to list the all the capitals and territories???? here, from east to west...

Newfoundland - St. John's
Nova Scotia - Halifax
New Brunswick - Fredricton
PEI - Charlottetown
Quebec - Quebec City
Ontario - Toronto
Manitoba - Winnipeg
Saskatchewan - Regina
Alberta - Edmonton
BC - Victoria

Territories:
Nunavut - Iqaluit (founded 1999--newest territory. Only 8% of Canadians now that, and I do, even though I am the son of an immigrant).
NWT - Yellowknife
Yukon - Whitehorse

Regionalism

Inuits in Northern Canada, number only 20 000, but suffer from severe economic problems, despite the richness of natural resources in the region

Toronto and the rest--Disconnect between the interests of the country's most powerful city and the interests of external Canadians

Quebecois separatism--Although one of the two founding provinces in 1867, they feel that their unique status and cultural needs within Canada haven't been done justice to, and a large separatist movement exists in that country. Two referendums on separation have been held, with the most recent one in 1995, in which the "YES" vote barely eeked over the "NO" vote.

French and English are Canada's two official languages. New Brunswick is the only province in which both French and English our official, because of the francophone Acadian community that have been there for a very long time. In Quebec, it is only French, and in Nunavut, Inuktitut and Innuinqatun are also official. Other provinces also have notable french-speaking communities, such as Ontario and Alberta. There is a French school system in Ontario that caters to Franco-ontarians.

Aboriginal Peoples in Canada have come to demand self-government rights. Efforts for successful aboriginal reserves have backfired for many, but some have done very well, such as the Nisga'a reserve in BC.

Aboriginals suffered immensly during British colonization, having been put into residential schools during the British empire.

The Voyageurs were European fur traders who traversed the country in canoes, trading with the natives.

First Nations' physiology is incompatible with alcohol, so when some early fur traders tried to give them alcohol in exchange for goods, it took an enormous toll on their bodies.

Alberta--massive oil reserves. It used to be the poorest of all provinces, but it worked hard to develop its oil industry and is now the most prosperous. Due to this, it often looks poorly upon other provinces taking away its hard-earned oil money, and votes primarily conservative in Federal elections these days. Historically, it has had a tradition of basically voting against the party in power, but it now looks like it is a solid conservative stronghold.

Maritimes - Fishing industry has been in decline, and unemployment is skyrocketing, particularly in Newfoundland. Many have tried moving to other provinces, most notably Alberta, in search of jobs to send money back home.

Oil in Canada--reserves are sizable in Alberta and Saskatchewan, also Hibernia offshore oil rig off the coast of Newfoundland, and untapped reserves in the North.

Longest Serving PM - William Lyon Mackenzie King. His detractors referred to him as a "ruthless, power hungry man that would do anything to get it".
Shortest Serving PM - Sir Charles Tupper--one of the founding fathers of confederation, and one of Canadian history's most influential and dynamic politicians.
First Female PM - Avril Kim Campbell, Conservative Party, term lasted only a few months.

Let's see, what else can I show you I know about our country:

southern most point - Pelee Island
northern most point - CFB Alert

Disputed territory--Hans Island w/ the Danes

Oh Canada, our home and native land,
True Patriot Love, In all thy sons command,
With glowing hearts we see thee rise
Our true lord strong and free
From far and wide oh Canada,
We stand on gaurd for thee
God keep our land
Glorious and Free
O Canada we stand on guard for thee
O Canada we stand on guard for thee

(unsure about spelling for this part):

Oh Canada terre de nos aieux
Ton front e cinq
De fleurons glorieux
Car ton bras se porte lepee
Il sait portait la croix
Ton histories e tu e popee
De plus brilliants exploits
Et ta valeur
Du fois trempee
Protegera nos foyers et nos dois
Protegera nos foyers et nos dois

I speak French too.

Tu pense que je ne suis pas un "vrais Canadien" parce-que mes parents a né dans Afrique? Oh mon dieux! Tu es tres, tres stupide! Tu ne comprends pas que les etudiants dans les ecoles Canadiens, et les immigrants (pour citoyenneté) a etudié l'histoire et la geographie du Canada. Tu as un comprehension horrible de la patrimoine Canadien.

Je suis un vrais Canadien. Un canadien dévoué. Un Canadien de naissance. Apparemment, tu es moins Canadien parce-que tu n'acceptes pas une doctrine Canadien fondamental--multiculturalisme!

Tu es une disgrâce à Canada!

In short, I am just as worthy to run this country as any third or fourth generation Canadian. As individuals, a third generation Canadian of my age would have lived in Canada for as long as me, and would have learned as much as I did in Canadian schools about Canada. They would also have the same level of allegiance to Canada as I do.

Tell me this--if you had to choose between a first generation Canadian who was enthusiastic about Canada and was dedicated to serving it in the political realm, and knows all about it after living here for 40 years, or a 5th generation Canadian who doesnt care about politics anyway and wouldn't do his job properly--except with the prerequisite that he would be in "power"?

Remember, one's dedication to Canada cannot be measured in their heritage, but in their raw dedication to the country! I hold no other citizenships, and will never hold any other citizenship, because I strongly believe in Canadian values and love my country. Smilingassassin, I was born here just like you, and I went to the same schools as you and grew up learning the same things as you and in the same damn country as you. Its time that your sorry ass opened up its eyes to the reality of some parts of the country these days--the multicultural reality--and the fact that Canadianess is not measured in skin colour or generational links--I thought we were done with the age of nobility.

I know its difficult for you to understand because of your heritage, but it is important for you to realize your racism and embrace people who are dedicated Canadians but weren't born in the country or their parents weren't. Our own governor-general (Queen's representative, or ceremonial head-of-state, for all those of you who are not from Canada) was born in Haiti at a very young age and was raised in Canada.

**Officer of Engineers** · 03 Jan 07,, 18:21

Ease up. You're Canadian as that Maple Tree in my yard. My parents were borned in China. I was borned here. My regiment and I and all those who wore the uniform say you're Canadian. That's good enough.

As to who's worthy, the vote decides that. And there's no one here that's worthy of enough votes to get into Parliament, let alone the leader of a party.

**ajtigger** · 03 Jan 07,, 18:25

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

As to who's worthy, the vote decides that. And there's no one here that's worthy of enough votes to get into Parliament, let alone the leader of a party.

What I meant to say was that my heritage shouldn't stand between me and running for public office. That is like apartheid.

**Officer of Engineers** · 03 Jan 07,, 18:28

Well, like it or not, it is an issue. People are people and you want their votes and your heritage is there for them to decide. You may not get a vote simply because you may play soccer instead of hockey. Not fair, but that person has the right to decide his vote the way he wants to decide his vote.

**ajtigger** · 03 Jan 07,, 18:31

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Well, like it or not, it is an issue. People are people and you want their votes and your heritage is there for them to decide. You may not get a vote simply because you may play soccer instead of hockey. Not fair, but that person has the right to decide his vote the way he wants to decide his vote.

Which is definately true. I don't think it should restrict someone from being able to run, though.

**Officer of Engineers** · 03 Jan 07,, 18:32

There's only two restrictions - money and votes. You don't get enough of either, you don't get to run.

**ajtigger** · 03 Jan 07,, 18:36

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

There's only two restrictions - money and votes. You don't get enough of either, you don't get to run.

Wait a sec--I never said that I wanted to run lol

I was just trying to make a point.

**Canmoore** · 03 Jan 07,, 18:49

Originally Posted by smilingassassin

I mean Canadians with DEEP roots in this country. Third generation is quite deep. The last thing I want is someone from another country with barely the knowlege of this nations culture and history taking the reins and turning this country into something completely different. Being Canadian isn't simply having a peice of paper stating as much, you have to understand the nation, its culture and its moral compass.

Michaëlle Jean was born in Haïti. That doesnt even make her a first generation Canadian, yet she is doing a dam fine job in Representing this Country as our GG accross the world.

She dropped her duel citizenship without even being asked to when she was appointed GG of Canada.

I do not agree with you that a second or first generation Canadian is not allowed to be a politician. I think that as long as you were born in Canada then you can become the PM or Premier of a Province.

**Officer of Engineers** · 04 Jan 07,, 02:46

Well, there are some rules. In order to be PM or even a close cabinet position, you have to have NATO Top Secret and some even Eyes Only. For those, the clearance requires years of search. They'll talk to everyone in your life and your parents' life. They'll even travel to the home country to interview people. If they cannot find any, then, that's a strike against you. Being that many generations in Canada is a hell of alot easier.

**execrable** · 26 Apr 07,, 09:43

Originally Posted by ajtigger

I was just trying to make a point.

You made a very strong point. At least for me, a Nation that chooses to disbar a whole swathe of people who might be brilliant at any job only causes itself problems. Isn't there a saying (and even a powerpoint joke) that a Nation gets the leaders it deserves?

(I've got a copy of the powerpoint joke on my PC - it's about GWBush Jr)