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Thread: Reason for Hijab: Womens hair emits dangerous sex rays

  1. #76
    Ray
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    Nissar,

    Maybe the Indian Moslem women share your sentiment.

    A Moslem woman has energised a whole lot of other Moslem women in Hyderabad and arre organising a Mosque with a Woman cleric!

    It has been condemned by the male Clerics.

    Of course, they require money and to built a proper mosque, but given the poltical sensitivity of the 'vote bank', I wonder if they will suceed.

    So, what I wish to state, things are changing and good for that.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisaar
    I know its really kind of silly for me to reply to my own thread but I would like to take that last statement back. Thanks to America muslims will soon have a right to vote and a Democracy. I'd never want to take Saddams part and I felt like I was doing that.
    Nisaar, it never occurred to me that you could be taking Saddam's part. Someone can welcome change brought about by a catalist without embracing the catalist itself. If the US government's actions help bring democracy, that's great. People should have the right to shape their own rules. But it should be, as you implied, a democracy of their own making, not one shaped by the country claiming to liberate them for this very thing.

    The covering the hair bit - I know a young woman in Canada who recently was yelled at in Arabic (sorry, don't know where the man was from) and had a sheet thrown at her, then was told in English - "you will not be a slut in my house!" She works for a painting company and was contracted to do touch ups in his home in Canada. She politely refused to finish the work while he was home. The girl is very modest, no make up, wearing the contractor"s uniform, hair tied back. She was quite shocked and some people suggested she should do as he asked in his home. My feeling is that the Canadian law should override customs such as these when they apply to contactors like this girl. If the law of the country does not apply within individual homes, women and children loose the protection we have fought for for generations.

    I often wonder if laws that restrict women are more meant as a way of controlling them. It must seem frightening to some cultures to see women competing in the workforce, voting, shaping laws, and yes - refusing to cook dinner!

    Interesting and educational thread!

  3. #78

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    Peddling the veil
    Razi Azmi


    Two French hostages still remain in mortal danger in Iraq because of the French government ban on wearing the hijab (or any religious attire) in public schools. While few Muslims support violence to protest the French decision, a very large number of them all over the world, especially the West, are quite agitated over this issue. The hijab and burqa are important to some of them, and the ban is viewed as an act of deliberate discrimination against Muslims.

    After the announcement of the French ban earlier this year, demonstrations were held across cities in Western countries. In at least one such demonstration, leaflets signed by Hizb-ut-Tahrir — containing “an open letter” to the French president and another addressed to the local French diplomatic mission — were distributed. Calling the prohibition “an act of injustice and religious persecution”, it warned that when the Muslims will have “put an end to the western hegemony over the Muslim lands [and] the Khilafah will be re-established, ... that day, the Muslims will bestow goodness upon those that displayed good, and will account those who displayed contempt”. Only time will tell who accounts whom!

    Meanwhile, many educated Pakistani Muslim women, living both in the country and in the West, now wear not just the hijab but the full-length Taliban-style burqa. Some go around writing articles and making statements and speeches about its supposed liberating effect on them.

    Yasmin Ataullah, a press officer for the Muslim Association of Britain, wrote in The Guardian (September 3) that “I feel more confident in my hijab, projecting myself as a progressive Muslim woman who has the courage to be true to her faith while living and working in Britain. ... I now feel an affinity with Muslims in London. ... I merely exercise my rights in a free society by choosing to wear the hijab”. To Mohtarma Yasmin, hijab “is a reflection of a woman’s modesty”.

    Undoubtedly, for every Yasmin Ataullah there are many more Muslim women who feel more confident — and definitely more progressive — without the hijab or burqa. And if the hijab gives her a greater sense of affinity with some Muslims in London, it equally diminishes her affinity with the more numerous non-veiled Muslim women in UK, not to mention the non-Muslim population. It is a pity that in a country that has so much to offer in terms of social, economic, educational, political and other choices, she can find no better way of exercising her rights than by wearing the hijab. It remains, after all, a symbol of religious separatism frowned upon by liberal-minded Muslims, officially discouraged in some Muslim countries and banned in Turkish schools, universities and government offices.

    For Mohtarma Yasmin, “the secularist arguments behind the hijab ban in France amount to nothing more than a denial of freedoms of expression and choice”. Muslims are the greatest votaries of freedom of expression and choice, of multiculturalism and secularism in those countries where they happen to be in a minority, as in the West and in India, but are the champions of Islamic hegemony wherever they are in a majority. Only the most diehard will deny that religious minorities get a very shoddy deal in all Muslim countries, where they are allowed to exist only at the sufferance of the Muslim majority.

    Saudi Arabia, for one, does not even make a pretence of permitting religious freedom. According to a US State Department report: “Saudi Arabia is an Islamic monarchy without legal protection for freedom of religion, and such protection does not exist in practice. Islam is the official religion, and the law requires that all citizens be Muslims. The government prohibits the public practice of non-Muslim religions. The government recognises the right of non-Muslims to worship in private; however, it does not always respect this right in practice.”

    Writing on a respected Pakistani Islamic website (www.tanzeem.org), Ayeza Nadeem goes even further than Yasmin Ataullah: “As a Muslim woman I don’t want to have affairs which could lead to adultery, bastards, divorces. ... The veil gives a big ‘no’ signal to all those people who have any kind of evil in their hearts. Firstly they cannot see me, which keeps them away.”

    Mohtarma Ayeza will surely concede that hundreds of millions of women around the world lead perfectly normal family lives unaided by hijab or burqa, neither committing adultery nor conceiving bastards. Among those who are able to maintain their propriety, modesty and chastity without recourse to the veil are my wife, sisters, sisters-in-law and many nieces, as also the wives and daughters of my numerous Muslim and non-Muslim friends, most of whom are a credit to the female sex in their different ways. Indeed, to suggest that the veil and modesty and morality have any direct relationship is an insult to the vast majority of women — Muslim and non-Muslim — who choose not to veil themselves, as well as to the overwhelming majority of men who are not oglers and rapists.

    Not to veil oneself is not an advertisement for sex nor an invitation to rape, and the hijab or burqa does not guarantee any kind of immunity from immorality. One can even make a case that the converse is true, that the greater the attempt to put women behind the veil, the greater the propensity of males to become peeping Toms, voyeurs or worse. Since Zia’s ‘Islamisation’ took hold in Pakistan, there has been a huge increase in rapes, gang rapes, rapes sanctioned by jirgas, so-called honour killings, stripping of women in public and other acts of violence against women. Almost all of these crimes against women occur in rural areas and small towns, where none of the victims can be accused of dressing themselves ‘immodestly’.

    Much is made of the higher divorce rates in the West compared to Muslim countries. This is due to the economic independence enjoyed by women in the West and the fact that no stigma attaches to a divorced woman in a western society. It should not escape notice that the divorce rate in Pakistan is on the increase as women gain education and jobs, and the resulting relative economic independence and social acceptance of divorce.

    The link between the veil and Islam is tenuous at best, as contended in many articles on these pages and elsewhere. It is not exclusive to Muslims, but can be found in many non-Muslim societies, including India, the countries of the Mediterranean region and Eastern Europe. Rather than extend the independence of women, the veil always was and still remains a vestige of male domination. One understands the protectionist or religious arguments in support of the veil. But to try to ascribe a higher moral value to the veil or to equate it with modesty is a bit disingenuous and to claim that it liberates women is a flight of fantasy.

  4. #79
    Ray
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    Tarek,

    Very true.

    Thank heavens that in India, they (those who wore the saree and mostly Hindus) shed long back the pulling of the saree over the head to cover their heads when an elder entered.

    One of the most foolish things to do so to ensure you can't see where you are going.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray
    Nissar,

    Maybe the Indian Moslem women share your sentiment.

    A Moslem woman has energised a whole lot of other Moslem women in Hyderabad and arre organising a Mosque with a Woman cleric!

    It has been condemned by the male Clerics.

    Of course, they require money and to built a proper mosque, but given the poltical sensitivity of the 'vote bank', I wonder if they will suceed.

    So, what I wish to state, things are changing and good for that.
    Yes!. Thanks for telling me that, you made my day.
    BTW. Those male clerics can go take a hike, Muslim women are supposed to pray on Friday and have a separate mosque.Back here and in many other places we have it.

    Thanks.
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlymad

    I often wonder if laws that restrict women are more meant as a way of controlling them. It must seem frightening to some cultures to see women competing in the workforce, voting, shaping laws, and yes - refusing to cook dinner!

    Interesting and educational thread!
    Dead on man! I think so too.
    If you really want to insult a Muslim male that believes in oppression of the Female, all you have to do is ask them:

    "Umm, Who was the prohet Muhammeds(s.a.w) First and only BOSS ?"

    Answer:
    HIS WIFE. Lady khadija. Yes, The prophets boss was his 1st wife and he continued to work for her even after he married her.That always gets them.

    Oh, btw, there is a passage in the quraan that says That women are allowed to beautify themselves with makeup. And the restriction on beautification is on MEN and NOT women. Men can't beautify themselves and for some reason it mentions in the Quraan that at most, men can only wear silver jewelry, but women can wear any form of jewelry.Jewlry is for women.

    And that guy has no right to tell that girl that.
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarek
    Two French hostages still remain in mortal danger in Iraq because of the French government ban on wearing the hijab (or any religious attire) in public schools.
    does this ban extend to rings, earrings, necklaces, etc? Would a child wearing a small crucifix in their earlobe be ordered to remove it? How about things like Celtic symbols that at one time were considered religious? Just curious; I could see some people making an issue over details like that.

  8. #83
    Ray
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    Nissar,

    Some of the guys around here would issue a 'fatwa' on you.

    How did Prophet Mohamed work for Khadija?

    Just curious.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray
    Tarek,

    Very true.

    Thank heavens that in India, they (those who wore the saree and mostly Hindus) shed long back the pulling of the saree over the head to cover their heads when an elder entered.

    One of the most foolish things to do so to ensure you can't see where you are going.
    Ray, theres nothing wrong with that. Males are supposed to touch the feet of the elders. What if 10 elderly people enter the room at the same time? Lots of excercise for us, the women have it easy.

    Of course in this age of equality, women should also start touching the feet of the elders, since most of them dont even wear saris anymore. If they want the benefits of being treated the same as men then they should accept the penalties too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray
    Nissar,

    Some of the guys around here would issue a 'fatwa' on you.

    How did Prophet Mohamed work for Khadija?

    Just curious.

    Lady Khadija was originally married to one of the richest and most influential Bazzar owners in Arabia. When her husband died, he left the ownership of the bazaar to his wife lady khadija. The prophet came looking for work and was employed in the bazaar as a salesman. Lady khadija( as the story goes) watched the honesty of the prophet whilst he sold the merchandise of the bazzar and( I'm going to say something that will anger the sexist muslims) LADY KHADIJA asked the prophet for his hand in marriage. She married him. She was the breadwinner of the family.

    The prophet only became a prophet at the age of 40, and he was much younger than khadija when SHE asked HIM for his hand in marriage.

    And that is how the story goes. I don't have a degree in Islam, but I have been studying its' history from the age of 7. Sexist muslims know this story as well. This is what really happened.

    Please tell this to your sexist muslims friends and make sure to tell me what they say.
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

  11. #86
    Ray
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisaar
    Lady Khadija was originally married to one of the richest and most influential Bazzar owners in Arabia. When her husband died, he left the ownership of the bazaar to his wife lady khadija. The prophet came looking for work and was employed in the bazaar as a salesman. Lady khadija( as the story goes) watched the honesty of the prophet whilst he sold the merchandise of the bazzar and( I'm going to say something that will anger the sexist muslims) LADY KHADIJA asked the prophet for his hand in marriage. She married him. She was the breadwinner of the family.

    The prophet only became a prophet at the age of 40, and he was much younger than khadija when SHE asked HIM for his hand in marriage.

    And that is how the story goes. I don't have a degree in Islam, but I have been studying its' history from the age of 7. Sexist muslims know this story as well. This is what really happened.

    Please tell this to your sexist muslims friends and make sure to tell me what they say.
    Thanks.

    I knew that the Prophet was much younger than his wife and she was rich, but I didn't know that she was a bazaar owner or that she proposed.

    It means even after marriage he continued to work for her.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray
    Thanks.

    I knew that the Prophet was much younger than his wife and she was rich, but I didn't know that she was a bazaar owner or that she proposed.

    It means even after marriage he continued to work for her.

    I felt it necessary to give some facts and figures so:

    She was 40 years old when she proposed to marry the Prophet when he was 25 years old. After 15years of their marriage he became a prophet. She had been married TWICE before she married Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Her first husband was Aby Haleh Al Tamemy and her second husband was Oteaq Almakzomy. They had both died leaving Khadijah a widower. Khadijah died in 621A.D. This was the same year the Prophet ascended into heaven (Meraj). Or so we beleive.
    The prohet practised monogamy with her for around 25 years. He was something like 50+ when he got married again. He remarried about 11 times in a very short space of time.


    Oh!, BTW, something more interesting.

    After he became a prophet, in a major war that took place, the prophet and one of his wives of that time ( I forgot her name, I'll find it for you if you really want) actually fought TOGETHER, side by side. She even sustained some injuries as the story goes.

    So women in Islam even fought wars. Some of the early campaigns in Islam had women as the leaders of the armies.

    Let me find the names and i'll post them for you.
    All I'm saying is that the mindset of muslims these days is extremely sexist and it was'nt this bad when islam was in its early days.

    Anyway, We should fight these sexist guys.
    Back home where I live , they started (or tried to) this muslim radio channel, but no women were allowed to apply for vacant posts. Unfortunately for them, a muslim women applied for the posts anyways and when she was rejected, complaned to the SABC( South Africas broadcasting commision) and due to the evident sexism, they shut the station down.
    Anyway, a few months later the station reapplied and was reopoened and there seems to be women in the posts now. Glad that happened.

    Anyways I'm still upset because alot of the women don't even mind that they are unequal with men in our society. They should also stand up for their rights.
    Last edited by Nisaar; 22 Sep 04, at 13:58.
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

  13. #88
    Senior Contributor Samudra's Avatar
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    Nisaar

    WHat was the time when the Prophet was living on earth ?
    Plus , is there any place in Quran where it says a man should follow his intution and judge things in the context of things as they exist rather than follow things blindly.

    I have assumed that the failure of reading things in context , and not judging anything by his own self has led to this state of islam.

    for example this hijaab in , arabia , could have simply been an sun screen and a head cover to prevent heat.Imagine what it is today ! huh

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    Quote Originally Posted by chandragupta
    Nisaar

    WHat was the time when the Prophet was living on earth ?
    Umm, About 570 A.D was when he was born. (around 1400 years ago)



    Quote Originally Posted by chandragupta
    Plus , is there any place in Quran where it says a man should follow his intution and judge things in the context of things as they exist rather than follow things blindly.
    Let me check,i'll get back to you, I think there should be something like that. Anyway, I don't accept something without Question myself.

    Maybe with the acception of a gorgeous Girl who tells me she adores me and wants to become the mother of my children a.s.a.p.

    I definetly wouldnt question that.

    just kidding.

    Quote Originally Posted by chandragupta
    I have assumed that the failure of reading things in context , and not judging anything by his own self has led to this state of islam,for example this hijaab in , arabia , could have simply been an sun screen and a head cover to prevent heat.Imagine what it is today ! huh
    I'm also of that assumption. Like if the prophet where born in Africa, does that mean I should wear a bush between my legs and that women should not wear tops.
    (Hey, maybe thats not a bad idea.)
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

  15. #90
    Senior Contributor Samudra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisaar
    I'm also of that assumption. Like if the prophet where born in Africa, does that mean I should wear a bush between my legs and that women should not wear tops.
    (Hey, maybe thats not a bad idea.)
    ha ha ..
    now you being a muslim , sit down and think . Christians have books , hindus have books and guess what ? all have stuff like devil in nose.But why have they moved on and muslims slept over it ? why ? i am unable to find why.

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