LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With QuoteThat seems to be the case. Even in school, the nuns used threats of fire and hell to get us to behave.Originally Posted by chandragupta
sure. Gibson is like Disney. Take a classic and change it, especially the ending because it makes a better story.
That seems to be the case. Even in school, the nuns used threats of fire and hell to get us to behave.
oh, I am truly frightened!
(great Leader or president)
Absolutely, that has been one of my most heated arguments. It never made sense to me. Also, unfortunately when I was young I had a step father who was involved with Cavary Baptist Church. I don't know if you've heard of it, but its something of a chain of churches - the McDonalds of religion if you will. I remember the first time I went, the sermon involved nothing more than a slide show disputing and talking down about other religions and forms of worship. Even at a young age I felt that this made no sense. To this day, I still don't understand how we can all believe pretty much the same thing, yet kill each other over minor details.
A serious question: Are there any passages in the religious texts (Bible, Quran, etc.) or even teachings that justify the violence? What laws, teachings or beliefs are used to justify suicide bombers, holy wars, religious persecution, etc.? I ask because I am really curious. You know the whole 72 virgins thing, the plenary indulgences granted Christians who crusade. What in the teachings helps people justify their disregard for the ultimate "Thou shall not kill" clause?
I don't intend to offend. This has been a very informative thread and I thank you all for sharing
"And a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your Commander-in-Chief." - George W. Bush - October, 2004.
The Old Testament has many instances displaying god as a war-like god, encouraging acts of war. A striking example is when he hardens Pharaoh’s heart so that the ruler does not let the Israelites leave. Why? So that he can show his power. After sending several plagues, the Pharaoh weakens, but god hardens his heart again so that he can show his power once more by killing all the first born.
I have included several quotes on war in general, as well. Pretty harsh.
The New Testament is quite different, with forgiveness and peace constantly promoted. I read this is because the Old Testament covered not only religion, but civil law (I suppose that the violence and excessive revenge reflects the times), while the New Testament, by what Jesus taught, was not meant for civil law.
Exodus
7:3-7:4 I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
Psalms ch 18
He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms. Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great....I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed. I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet. For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.
Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me. They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but he answered them not.
Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets. He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man.
(that last bit is pretty telling. It seems it's ok to use violence against violent men)
Psalms, Chapter 144
Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
(my personal belief is that Jesus tried to change the violent aspects of his religion, and succeeded to some degree, but when a group wants to make war, it is convenient to turn to the wrath of god in the Old Testament to justify their actions.)
If thine tongue offends thee, ...you know the rest...
I don't find this desire for truth offensive.
The Old Testament has many instances displaying god as a war-like god, encouraging acts of war. A striking example is when he hardens Pharaoh’s heart so that the ruler does not let the Israelites leave. Why? So that he can show his power. After sending several plagues, the Pharaoh weakens, but god hardens his heart again so that he can show his power once more by killing all the first born.
I have included several quotes on war in general, as well. Pretty harsh.
The New Testament is quite different, with forgiveness and peace constantly promoted. I read this is because the Old Testament covered not only religion, but civil law (I suppose that the violence and excessive revenge reflects the times), while the New Testament, by what Jesus taught, was not meant for civil law.
Exodus
7:3-7:4 I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt. But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
Psalms ch 18
He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms. Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great....I have pursued mine enemies, and overtaken them: neither did I turn again till they were consumed. I have wounded them that they were not able to rise: they are fallen under my feet. For thou hast girded me with strength unto the battle: thou hast subdued under me those that rose up against me.
Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me. They cried, but there was none to save them: even unto the LORD, but he answered them not.
Then did I beat them small as the dust before the wind: I did cast them out as the dirt in the streets. He delivereth me from mine enemies: yea, thou liftest me up above those that rise up against me: thou hast delivered me from the violent man.
(that last bit is pretty telling. It seems it's ok to use violence against violent men)
Psalms, Chapter 144
Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight.
(my personal belief is that Jesus tried to change the violent aspects of his religion, and succeeded to some degree, but when a group wants to make war, it is convenient to turn to the wrath of god in the Old Testament to justify their actions.)
If thine tongue offends thee, ...you know the rest...
I don't find this desire for truth offensive.
Wow! I guess what I find so terribly offensive about religious ideals as they pertain to war is the general concept that God would prefer one people over another. In my book, it belittles the notion of the God that we are to revere; the just God; the forgiving God. A comedian once said that it's amusing when athletes attribute their performace to the grace of god, but never the opposite. "I would have scored a touchdown if God didn't make me fumble!!"
"And a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your Commander-in-Chief." - George W. Bush - October, 2004.
go ahead...laugh it up, El President. Here's one:
After a great deal of thought, this guy Terry asks god if he can be changed into a woman. God considers Terry's reasons and says, "sure, but I must warn you - the physical change isn't a big deal, but in fairness I had better tell you that in order to make you into a woman, I have to remove 3/4 of your brain."
Terry smiles and says, "that,s just fine, Lord. After watching men and women for some time, I've come to the conclusion that it only takes a woman 1/4 of a brain to do what it takes a man a whole brain to do."
(BTW, I am one of those "nisa" and could just as easily visit you. I won't bring a gift, but think about these two words as you go to sleep tonight: Lorena Bobbit see - lorena .)
As i have said earlier , a few thousand years ago priests found it easier to control men by scaring him with verses like that...Strange that humans are still reading and memorising them....
May be thats why , i have some strange affection for nature worship in India like Bhumi Pooja , surya , chandra , and all the prayers and festivals they devote to the life giving rivers...Atleast you thank some one/thing which provides you for your daily life....Gee , i would be afraid , very afraid of a god who hardens the heart of a King so that he can show his power....look very carefully you will see somewhere Priests using those verses to frighten people...
The secret code of the religious problems has been broken ladies and gentlemen , its the Priests and their misinterpretations.All thanks to mostlymad for typing in "priests".
He does'nt argue much with me. The point is a person should live as justly as he/she can. Mistakes will be committed.."but to err is human". For people who quote the holy books too much just ponder. ...When God made the world, on the first day he said let there be light. Then on the fourth day he made the sun, moon and stars....My question is the sun was made on the fourth day, how did we get light on the first day.
All holy books should be taken as spiritual guides, and we should not get fanatical about them These books were after all written by men, so there are bound to be some mistakes.
There is not much of a difference in the Old Testament and the Koran, yet these two great religions are at logger heads. Because of priests.
Moses is considered a prophet by the Jews, Christains and the Muslims. If we believe the same things, then why are we fighting.
Last edited by lemontree; 25 Oct 04, at 06:34.
Cheers!...on the rocks!!
Actually, on a serious note, The belief in islam is that women are smarter than Men. And I think so too.
BTW, when I get married, I'm definitely gonna only have takeout at my house, woudn't want any knives or anything in my ladys hand
"It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]
Spiritual is what seems to get lost in the rituals and doctrine.
Chandragupta, I also feel drawn to the nature worship of Native North Americans, probably for the same reasons. I don't believe in it, but it just feels nice! I'm part native, though, somaybe it stems from that. Their ceremonies and art are very beautiful.
Why then the clear bias against women? (not with you, but Islam in general)
Up until fairly recently, women were treated badly in the Catholic church as well. The New Testament states women should not speak in church, and if they have something to say about religion, they should first run it by their husband, so that he can set them straight.
IMHO it is all about power and control. First at the family level, then the church, then humanity in general.
"And a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your Commander-in-Chief." - George W. Bush - October, 2004.
Yeah, I guess its all about control. But as a Muslim , I guess I should try and change that . Which is why I always show muslim women with bullet proof masks that verse in the Quraan.
Your part native American!!!!
Wow, you have to tell me more.....
You arent related to Geronimo or something are you?
"It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]
No, different tribe. Algonquin/Ojibwa, pretty peaceful. Much further North.You arent related to Geronimo or something are you?
(good idea about the cooking/ordering out/knives, BTW
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Share this thread with friends: