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Thread: Reason for Hijab: Womens hair emits dangerous sex rays

  1. #136
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    Simply Amazing ...

    this has turned into a most educative and interesting thread ....

    Congratulations to all participants .... I am impressed by the scholarly attitude and the tension-free environment ....

    and a special thank you to Nisaar who has written the facts so beautifully ...

  2. #137
    Jay
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    Tamizhanban Senior Contributor Jay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisaar
    The belief is that he was divinely inspired to tell his followers to write a book that was relevent to all times and nations of mankind. Just a belief.
    I know, if you follow a religion, a God, you need to believe in it/him/her first.
    I dont see anything wrong wih it. But Tarek's theory is better (for the mankind). There is always a context for everyting, like the hindu scriptures Ramayana, Mahabahratha and everything.

    IMHO, I cannot just blindly follow some traditions just bcoz my forefathers followed them.

    No problems, there are two sects of buddhism.One which accepts Buddha as god (hinayana) and other which lives by Buddhas examples and codes of life(mahayana).Hindus worship him as god too....but no temples and kind of things like others.
    Buddha himself said that he is not a God. As usual, the people pontified him.
    Hindus consider Buddha as Krishna's Avatar. Its like, everytime when something really bad happens in the world, Krishna saves the world thro an avtar, i believe.
    Last edited by Jay; 05 Oct 04, at 19:26.

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlymad
    Yes! We need first to understand, so that through our ignorance, we do not cause more harm. Forums like this help a great deal. I hope this thread keeps on and on, so I'll think up many questions!

    I'd love to hear about the Big Bang Theory and the connection to Hinduism, as well.
    I'll be waiting earnestly for your Questions, so hurry up

    BTW, what religion do you follow.Tell me so that I can ask you Questions as well.
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarek
    Nisaar


    "The best thing to do is to read the particular religion in the language it was originally written in"

    It seems you think that language stays in some sort of stasis, and we have to challenege this notion - If it is true that language reflects and creates social reality, then we would have problems justifying the notion that knowledge evolves, changes, that societies eveolve and change and that similarly language cannot possibly be in a Stasis, that we engage in a utopian exercise when we imagine that we can hold a language in a stasis (and therefore society in a stasis) and attempt to recreate a social reality that the language in stasis creates -- this is, it seems to me, the same method that the radical islamists proposes in his "selection" of a literal reading of religous texts. It is a dangerous idea because it seeks to recreate a social reality particular to time, space and geography.

    Could you do me a favour.
    Read my post in its entirety. (sorry for shouting)

    Yes, I was saying that you have to read something in a form that you can understand, but you have to bear in mind that there could be a few errors in translation.
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by visioninthedark
    Simply Amazing ...

    this has turned into a most educative and interesting thread ....

    Congratulations to all participants .... I am impressed by the scholarly attitude and the tension-free environment ....

    and a special thank you to Nisaar who has written the facts so beautifully ...
    Thanks, you made my day.

    BTW, are you a shia?

    If so Please, please please tell me the difference between the shia and sunni forms of Islam. I've heard and read the differences from scholars who were sunni and I felt them picking on the shia sect a little.

    Personally , I don't call myself sunni, just a muslim.
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisaar
    BTW, what religion do you follow.Tell me so that I can ask you Questions as well.
    I was raised Catholic, very, very strict form of catholicism including schools run completely by nuns and priests, and we had frequent home visits from the priest to keep us on the straight and narrow.

    I no longer practice that religion. I know a fair bit about Buddhism, but only the group that does not worship Buddha as god or believe in after life. This came from friends and interest, not from joining any group.

    I will think up some questions, and look forward to yours.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisaar
    I'll be waiting earnestly for your Questions, so hurry up
    Here's the first of many, in two parts, and if you wish, I'd love to hear your belief, if it differes from your religion's traditional one.

    !. Why did god create the universe, and humans, in particular. Christianity has several answers.

    2. What is our purpose here?

    Thanks!

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlymad
    2. What is our purpose here?
    Oooo, the meaning of life. Interesting question/concept.
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlymad
    Here's the first of many, in two parts, and if you wish, I'd love to hear your belief, if it differes from your religion's traditional one.

    !. Why did god create the universe, and humans, in particular. Christianity has several answers.

    2. What is our purpose here?

    Thanks!

    This is a loaded one! How about a new forum for it?
    "And a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your Commander-in-Chief." - George W. Bush - October, 2004.

  10. #145
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    a forum to ask and answer questions about each other's beliefs? I guess that's up to the ones who manage this site, but I'd like it.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by mostlymad
    Here's the first of many, in two parts, and if you wish, I'd love to hear your belief, if it differes from your religion's traditional one.

    !. Why did god create the universe, and humans, in particular. Christianity has several answers.

    2. What is our purpose here?

    Thanks!

    Give me a few of Days, I'll get back to you. I want to use some quotes from the Quraan.( I don't just wanna pul things outta my head.)

    The beleifs we have are very different to those that many muslims share, but anyway, i'll get back to you in a short while.
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

  12. #147
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    The purpose of man:

    I've tried to make this as short as possible , but a little background first. Remember that this is just our Beliefs and it is not something I can proove.This is mostly my opinion ( and my moulanas) as you have asked. It is an assumption made by viewing various parts of the Quraan and haadith.
    Different muslims have differing beliefs.

    Okay, firstly we believe that God has lived forever and always will. He has no equals or no sons, daughters or a wife. In other words he is unchallenged.He is unique and has no partners.He is completely different to us and any other of his creations.

    Here is a verse from the Quraan: (Pg: 106 A. yusuf Ali.)

    Say, He is God
    The one and only,
    God the eternal absolute.
    He Beget not nor is he begotten
    and there is none like unto him.
    (Sura 112)


    As he has never had an equal and never will,we believe that this has led to an arrogance on his part.This has led to him wanting to be worshiped. And originally, he created angels to do two things. One being to worship him. And the other being to create things(Angels being his appendages). We generally believe that when God wants something to exist, it doesnt just magically appear, it has to go through a process of creation. The time that it takes for these things to be created may seem like a few days to him, but it will seem like millions of years relative to us:


    Like example the creation of the Earth, he says :

    "And your lord is God who created the Heavens and the Earth in six Days(Yaum)"
    [Sura 7 : 54]


    The word Yaum is translated as Days here by most, but the word can also mean 'periods'. Any way these days are Days relative to Gods timescale. For us :

    "In a day (yaum), whereof your measure is like 50 000 years."
    [Sura 70 : 4] also [32:5]


    In any case, the numbers 6,7,1000, 50 000 are taken to be the equivalent of the words "very long periods of time" in Arabic. So they don't represent an actual figure.

    Like for example :
    You can say in English," It took me a millions of days to finish my homework".In Arabic,"It took me 7 days to finish my homework".
    So they are numbers that arent really to be taken literally.


    Any way back to the story.
    So Gods supremacy led him to create a class of beings known as angels that would acknowledge hissupremacy and worship him.
    Think about it...
    Whats the worth in having a being designed to worship you just worshipping you.No matter what , it will worship you. An angel is like a computer,it just does what you tell it without questions like why? etc...
    It is assumed that they have some kind of thought but they don't have emotion.


    So God decided to created a second Class of being that he called the JINN race.

    These beings will have a few differences to the angels.

    They will be able to have thought and emotion.
    They will not need to ask for Gods leave for everything they do.
    They will be given the ability to travel vast spans of space at will.
    They can alter and interfere with gods creation to a certain extent and learn things on their own.

    But their restriction is that they MUST worship God.No other option was given to it.
    The advantage of this being is that it will have thought about its creator and worship it. It wont just be like an angel doing what it is told, it will worship and and think about the glory and power of its creator in its past time and this will hounour God even more.

    Now from this point our beliefs differ slightly with some other muslims, but I will use quotes to justify.


    God then chose one of the jinns known as IBLEES (Satan, some assume he is not entirely a Jinn), and thought him the works of many things. Astounded at the way things worked. This new leader of the jinns (Assumption) would go back to the Jinns and try to explain some of the things he learnt. These jinn students once understanding a concept would be so fascinated that they would praise Gods name even more.
    But the jinns wanted to explore their realm and talk amongst themselves and didn't really want to worship God.And God knew this.
    Every time God created something, he invited all of them to watch.


    This time round, God wanted to create a third type of being.Us.
    This time God wanted an even better type of worship.And he wanted this being to worship him without even asking them.

    In the Quraan it says :

    'We created man from a clay that makes sounds('Silsal').From mud moulded into shape.

    And the jinn race we had created BEFORE, from the fire of a scorching wind.'

    [Sura 15 : 26] Pg 642(A.Yusuf Ali).


    Our advantages is that:

    We can do as we please in our realm( Known as Jahanna(heaven), or the 7 th realm) .
    Everything was at our disposal.
    And all of us were thought the nature of 'ALL' things.
    We werent asked by God to do anything but one thing, and that is,"not to eat of the forbidden fruits.." In Islam it is referred to as fruits rather than fruit in Christianity.Some people take this to be an actual fruit, others take this to be 'Sex'. Others take this to be 'Benefits'.My interpretation of the word 'Fruits' is 'benefits'.Though not asked to worship God, many of them marvelled at his creation and did. And then there were also some that didnt.God wanted to proove to mankind ( and those jinns I mentioned earlier) that some of them were not worthy of this special treatment. So the whole Satan thing in Islam is a thing that we believe God knew was going to happen.

    When mankind was being created, The angels and Iblees were called to see.

    God asked them all to bow down to the supremacy of "Adam".Adam is taken to be a single persons name in christianity. The belief is also assumed in Islam to a certain extent. the word "Adam" or "Adami" can actually mean 'Man' in Arabic. So some assume that he is reffering to mankind as a whole and not just a single human being.
    Iblees didn't bow down to Adam as he believed that he was better then him.
    And this is assumed to be the first time a creature disobeyed God.

    God had immediately got angered with Satan and sought a way of punishment.
    Ibless's Goal was to try and show God that mankind was not worthy of the extra priveleges that he had given them.
    Iblees made a deal with God. You may punish me, but give me a chance and I will show you that I can persuade man to do the one thing you have forbidden them to do(The forbidden fruits/ benefits).
    If I am right, Then punish them by putting them in a world like that of the jinns. Put them in a world where they have to aquire knowledge and we will see how unintelligent they are.
    God then granted to Satan that if he could make mankind partake of the forbidden Fruits, then he will throw them all out of heaven. But this is what he will do.
    He will place them on the first heaven (on Earth) for a period.He will give them Limitations even more severe in some cases then that of the jinns. He will place a veil on them that will limit their intelligence. He will make them unaware of their past(except by religion). And all knowledge they gain will have to be aquired.
    God said that even then, mankind will develop and rise beyond satans expectations prooving to him that they are better, even with limitations.Those that don't contribute will be again punished, and those that contribute will return to heaven.
    Satan then asked if he could be the one who would lead mens hearts astray on the Earth and this was granted.

    God also took jinns and wiped their memories clean and placed them 'in the lower heavens' Of the jinns those that hear the message of the existence of a God ( via listening in on humans) and accept him will be given heaven. Those that don't shall be sent to a 'spiritual school' known as Hell.The Jinns however will be able to tnasgress onto the plane of Earth and will keep their ability to travel vast spans of space.However they must hear the 'The Criterion' (All the revelations by god in this realm) by listening and watching man.Only we will get prophets.


    So far the biggest assumption made is that we existed before and initially lived in heaven:

    In the Quraan it says:

    "We said: 'Oh Adam(Can be translated as Man?), dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as you will.But approach not this tree or ye run into harm and transgression.'

    Then did Satan make them slip from the Garden and get them out of the state of felicity on which they had been in.
    We said.'Get ye down ALL YE PEOPLE(more than two humans?)' ....."


    So why are we here and what was the purpose of man?

    Our conclusions are this:

    For God to proove to Iblees that even in our current state of limited intelligence, mankind will advance to a point where he will be able to accomplish more than a Jinn even though the Jinns were not as limited as us and given a headstart in this realm. God says that we will overtake them, and proove to satan that man is a better creation.

    To separate those who are deserving of the 7 th realm or heaven from those who are not.
    Those who are not will be punished in 'Jahannam' or hell. They will be spiritually cleansed.

    It is a test for mankind and ultimately a bet with Satan.
    In the new realm after 'youmoul Qayyamah' (Day of judgement) Both good humans( not only muslims) and good jinns will be permitted to the 7 th heaven.

    Forgive me for any spelling errors.
    BTW, We also believe in the comming of Christ.

    Last edited by Nisaar; 18 Oct 04, at 13:41. Reason: error
    "It is a little knowledge of science that makes you an Atheist, and it is an in-depth study of science that makes you a believer in God Almighty". [Sir Francis]

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nisaar
    Those who are not will be punished in 'Jahannam' or hell. They will be spiritually cleansed.
    Thanks for that beautifully written summary, Nisaar. By spiritually cleansed, do you mean that there is even a chance to leave hell eventually? I always thought the christian concept of hell was very cruel and pointless, to make people suffer for eternity. If they cannot be redeemed, why not just obliterate them?

    Thanks again. I'll wait a bit before my next big question.

  14. #149
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    And this stuff comes from the cradle of civilization? You gotta be kidding me!!

  15. #150
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    [QUOTE=tarek]Peddling the veil
    Razi Azmi


    Two French hostages still remain in mortal danger in Iraq because of the French government ban on wearing the hijab (or any religious attire) in public schools. While few Muslims support violence to protest the French decision, a very large number of them all over the world, especially the West, are quite agitated over this issue. The hijab and burqa are important to some of them, and the ban is viewed as an act of deliberate discrimination against Muslims.....QUOTE]

    It is funny that the muslims feels that the French law is discriminating against them, then what about the Saudi law of not allowing any expat visitor from carrying or wearing his/her religious symbol in that country. Should people of other religions start kidnapping muslims and ask for revoking that Saudi law.

    If they dont like the French law then why the hell are they living there, they should go to Iran or Saudi Arabia where their views are accepted. If the Saudis can make their laws then so can the French, nothing wrong in it.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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