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Reply With QuoteThis Stone Cold guy is a Pakistani???Originally Posted by Blademaster
Well not in mu state. like I said before India is anything but secular. If india is so darn secular then why do muslims have their own civil code. If india is so darn secular then why do the SECULAR indian government subsidise/pay for the muslim travellers to mecca?Well, Loudspeakers have been banned in most states... but banning religion altogether... that takes away the whole concept of a democratic secular state...
May be you need to see the dictionary what the word "SECULAR" means.
sec•u•lar (sek‚yƒ lƒr)
adj. 1. of worldly or nonreligious things or subjects;
2. not relating to or concerned with religion.
When the government even allows religious procession to take place on government roads that's bending itself to religious sentiments.
A true secular state would only allow religion to dwell on private land and not in public places.
India is a purely religious state doing a balancing act of appeasing the religious sentiments of all the religions in this country. A true secular state should abstain from this behaviour. The recent delay/banning of the release of the film "Davinci code" is proof enough.
India is a multi religious state catering to the religious needs of multiple religious communities residing here.
INDIA IS NOT A SECULAR COUNTRY.
People confuse a multi religious tolerance to being secular, which is exactly what you and the so called secular UPA is doing.
I hope you get it.
Actually animals do rape, animals like dolphins and some birds. But since you can't actually talk to a dolphin and ask whether it has been violated it cannot be proven with a solid ground. But common sense indicates that they do rape.first of all... animals don't go around "raping" the other sex... second of all... yes, we are smart animals, but still animals... we do almost the same things that most animals do... just a "civilized" way... same with eating other flesh, now, we cook, clean and eat in a meat in a MUCH civilized manner that all other animals, thats because we are "smarter" then them... but to say that we DON'T do the same stuff as animals because we are smart is wrong... we still are animals and do the same stuff other animals do, we just do it in a civilized manner... tell me one thing that other species of animals do that homosapien sapiens don't...
Slaughtering animals in this age of modern agricultural techniques is just plain wrong. Even wrong is the fact that animals are killed because of some bull$hit voodoo nonsense. Like it's said in courts, killing does not necessarily equate to crime. The motives behind it is just as or in fact MORE IMPORTANT THAT THE KILLING ITSELF. Here we have Idiots who with their stupid religious mindset are taking a life of some poor animals to to appease an imaginary entity. Where it ends up is not the point, the point is WHAT MOTIVATES THEM TO KILL IN THE FIRST PLACE, And I am damn sure it's not their stomachs.If they had "pity" for the animals, the animals wouldn't be slaughtered in the first place... but at the end everything is alright as long as the animal ends up in peoples stomachs (but after a swift painless death ofcourse...)
To their precious God. Where else? If tey are so darn sure God exists then why don't they kill themselves so so their precious heavens which according to them is flowing with milk and honey (LOL). Plain hypocritical bastards of the lowest order!I agree with you on this.. religion has screwed the world many times over... but then where do you propose to shift these religious fanatics to???
Actually the fact is God does not exist is a more reasonable and mature statement that "God exists".and I realize that you're an atheist and thats kool and all... but I think that you should give this more of a thought... look, if god doesn't exist... that can't be proven... BUT if he DOES exist... well that can't be proved either... so the best stance on such issues is the neutral stance... so, just dun cuss at god but then again... sometimes you just can't help it...
A chief ministers personal fund is a fund funded by my tax money. It is not her money it's the governments money which she has the authority to spend, the same government which is claimed as secular.I hope, you got the key words... this is not the tax money at work...
The practice of wearing dothis is time immemorial too, why do you wear pants and shirts now?I dont worship Ayyanar, but we still do offer goats and hens for our gods. Infact all of my community temples are offered sacrifices. All in all we are close to a million people, so you gonna kick in our groins?? Its our wish to kill the animals, we buy and feed them just for this purpose. We've been doing that from time immemorial and we will keep doing so.
The practice of subjugating lower castes/shudras are time immemorial too, So I guess we should just use them like dirt since it is also part of our tradition.
The practice of hunting wild animals is also time immemorial too, may be we should just go and wipe out the remaining 10's or so wild animals left.
The practice of losing and licking foreigners boots seems to be a habit of ours too, perhasps we should just let pakistani's invade us too.
Want more time immemorial/time tested traditions I have hundreds more...
The fact is when I find people justifying a stupid habit of theirs just because it is time immemorial, I just wonder at their "brilliance". Nothing personal...
Again playing God are we. I mean who gives you the right to just kill animals at will just because they become useful to you. I mean, after slaving/working their entire lives serving people like you the only reward they get is death. Brilliant!Infact I cant understand the fuss in killing a cow, its just an animal and when it gets old, when it cant give milk, when it cant work in the fields, when it cant be used to pull carts, killing is the only way to go.
It's like "You worked for me day and night and helped me to survive in this world, so here is the reward you have been waiting for- a nice painfull horrific death."
Is it just me or does the above sentence dosen't makes sense?
And the funny part of life is that when these religious people do these kind of barbaric acts of cruelty beyond belief, they say stuff like "Ha, I have done good all my life so I will be going to heaven." It just makes reasonable people wonder what kind of character God is. Only a Sadist God would want Sadists by his side.
Rice yields 265 pounds of protein per acre, corn yields 211 pounds of protein per acre, and legumes yield 192 pounds of protein per acre. In contrast, milk production yields only 82 pounds of protein per acre, egg production yields only 78 pounds of protein per acre, and meat production yields only 45 pounds of protein per acre with beef (your favorite) being the most wasteful at only 20 pounds of protein per acre.So killing plants is ok? Plants are also living things, so I suggest you drink water, well water might have some bacterias too, so I think you should not ea, if you dont want to kill living things.
Rice requires 1912 liters and potatoes require 500 liters per kilogram of food produced. In contrast, the production of chicken meat requires 3500 liters of water per kilogram of food and the production of beef requires 100,000 liters of water per kilogram of food.
Here are some of the best estimates (remember best estimates, the worst estimates are, you guessed it, even worse.)
It takes roughly 4.8 pounds of grain, or 16 pounds of grass, to produce a pound of beef on average (Motavalli, McKibben). How much bread could that make?
Or in other words when you are eating beef or any other meat you are not only killing the cow or the chicken but you are also killing 16 pounds of grass/ 4.8 pounds of grain(probably wheat) which could have been consumed directly.
Regarding the bacteria thingy, better start invent some thing to remove the bacteria from my drinks and then accuse me of being a bacteria killer. LOL
The point is you are killing that animal based on superstition. Eating it is secondary. PRIMARY MOTIVE BEHIND KILLING, TO APPEASE THE GODS.I kill to eat them, not for God. Even if I sacrifice to god, still I'm going to eat it, not that god is going to complaint. They dont pillage your home for sacrifice, so I suggest you keep out of their beliefs and rituals.
Oh yeah, if you belief asks of you to run naked on the road then it's of no problem to anyone. The problem comes when your beliefs (or your habits) interferes with this planet's creations.
And BTW I call myself a hindu rather than an atheist. But the difference between myself and others is, I don't let religion take center stage before Logic, Reasoning or any earthly matters. Religion is locked in my mind tight and never ventures out into the real world.
The best way to explain it is, I keep religion locked up in my imagination along with other such imaginary things. You may argue that I am an atheist in spirit and all, but thats another issue alltogether and open for debate in another thread.
This Stone Cold guy is a Pakistani???
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
And what state exactly would that be??? Bihar??? lol... (pssh... you dont live in India...)
no, now that is sooooo wrong.... MUSLIMS HAVING THEIR OWN CIVIL CODE?????????????? where did you get that from??? And the government does not PAY for the muslims to travel to Mecca... if some side organization does then maybe...If india is so darn secular then why do muslims have their own civil code. If india is so darn secular then why do the SECULAR indian government subsidise/pay for the muslim travellers to mecca?
yes, thank you for that definition, you may want to read it over once more though... because that definition states... not relating to or concerned with religion.... and India happens to be a state without an official state religion... and if Indians wish to follow religion it is because we have the freedom to do so; but seems like you are obsessed with tyrants ruling and banning this and that....May be you need to see the dictionary what the word "SECULAR" means.
sec•u•lar (sek‚yƒ lƒr)
adj. 1. of worldly or nonreligious things or subjects;
2. not relating to or concerned with religion.
and how often do these "processions happen???" you're talking as if this is an everyday thing... and plus, this also falls under "freedom of speech," If you would like to hold a rally preaching atheism, then you are free to do so, no one will stop you... that is what freedom of speech is...When the government even allows religious procession to take place on government roads that's bending itself to religious sentiments.
so you're saying no nation in this world is secular??? You seems to love tyrannary rule... your ideas are to bring forth; your percieved Secularism; and do away with democracry and freedom of speech???A true secular state would only allow religion to dwell on private land and not in public places.
This is a country where the people rule... If the majority of the people in a certain area feel offended by the film and want it banned, then it will be banned, but ONLY IN THEIR AREA!!! Da Vinci Code is not banned all over India... it is only banned in places where the Christians were in majority and were speaking up against the movie...India is a purely religious state doing a balancing act of appeasing the religious sentiments of all the religions in this country. A true secular state should abstain from this behaviour. The recent delay/banning of the release of the film "Davinci code" is proof enough.
so you say that a secular country is one that keeps it's own people under the boot??? India is a democratic country where the people get what they want... majority rules...India is a multi religious state catering to the religious needs of multiple religious communities residing here.
INDIA IS NOT A SECULAR COUNTRY.
ok, so according to you... true secularism can only be practised wilst keeping the population under the boot and emplacing restrictions and shutting out their voice??? i'm sure no one would want that type of secularism...People confuse a multi religious tolerance to being secular, which is exactly what you and the so called secular UPA is doing.
I don't give a monkeys ass about your opinions... fact is, i'm still going to be eating meat and about sacrifices... well... I have no experience or knowledge about these practises so I will refrain from commenting further... I don't support sacrifice but thats just my opinion, and you seem to have the same but a bit more extreme opinion.. but still it is YOUR opinion... if everything started to happen as you please, then this whole world would probably be under tyrannies...Actually animals do rape, animals like dolphins and some birds. But since you can't actually talk to a dolphin and ask whether it has been violated it cannot be proven with a solid ground. But common sense indicates that they do rape.
Slaughtering animals in this age of modern agricultural techniques is just plain wrong. Even wrong is the fact that animals are killed because of some bull$hit voodoo nonsense. Like it's said in courts, killing does not necessarily equate to crime. The motives behind it is just as or in fact MORE IMPORTANT THAT THE KILLING ITSELF. Here we have Idiots who with their stupid religious mindset are taking a life of some poor animals to to appease an imaginary entity. Where it ends up is not the point, the point is WHAT MOTIVATES THEM TO KILL IN THE FIRST PLACE, And I am damn sure it's not their stomachs.
yawn... I wanna see you try that... go ahead, try sending even one of these people to their god... and i know where you're heading...To their precious God. Where else? If tey are so darn sure God exists then why don't they kill themselves so so their precious heavens which according to them is flowing with milk and honey (LOL). Plain hypocritical bastards of the lowest order!but I still don't get why you're making such a big issue out of this... listen as long as someone elses religion doesn't effect me... why should I care about other people's beliefs???
no it's not... both these statements can be backed up by strong arguments... and our massive lack of knowledge of the unknown makes the "God exists" statement more mature... I don't think you have ever given this a thought... don't be a sheep, actually do some thinking on your own then make sure comments are the reasons for them...Actually the fact is God does not exist is a more reasonable and mature statement that "God exists".
you got any proof of that... The Personal funds (be it the CM's or PM's) are collected by donations NOT taxes...A chief ministers personal fund is a fund funded by my tax money. It is not her money it's the governments money which she has the authority to spend, the same government which is claimed as secular.
personal choice... if you look good in a dothi then wear it... lol...The practice of wearing dothis is time immemorial too, why do you wear pants and shirts now?
since in the present times every person is treated equally (excluding those god-damn unfair Quotas!!!), then it will not be feesible... but then again, this is personal choice, if you wish to look down upon them, you may... but don't complain if they do the same to you...The practice of subjugating lower castes/shudras are time immemorial too, So I guess we should just use them like dirt since it is also part of our tradition.
yea... old habits die hard, and it is time immomerial and hunting still goes on... excluding hunting extinct animals... and I have to say, it is quite fun...The practice of hunting wild animals is also time immemorial too, may be we should just go and wipe out the remaining 10's or so wild animals left.
heh... my forefathers went down fighting the British... and Pakistan... lol, as far as I know they came from the same pre-1947 period as we did... so your, losing to and licking foreigners boots applies to them also... I don't know, maybe your ancestors did the licking.. mines did the kicking..The practice of losing and licking foreigners boots seems to be a habit of ours too, perhasps we should just let pakistani's invade us too.
damn... big post.. all blah blah blah garbage... why are you trying to push your opinion upon others so badly??? everyone has one... and everyone thinks the other guys opinion is a ******... (heh.. I tried to quote someones sig... dun remember whose though...)Want more time immemorial/time tested traditions I have hundreds more...
The fact is when I find people justifying a stupid habit of theirs just because it is time immemorial, I just wonder at their "brilliance". Nothing personal...
Again playing God are we. I mean who gives you the right to just kill animals at will just because they become useful to you. I mean, after slaving/working their entire lives serving people like you the only reward they get is death. Brilliant!
It's like "You worked for me day and night and helped me to survive in this world, so here is the reward you have been waiting for- a nice painfull horrific death."
Is it just me or does the above sentence dosen't makes sense?
And the funny part of life is that when these religious people do these kind of barbaric acts of cruelty beyond belief, they say stuff like "Ha, I have done good all my life so I will be going to heaven." It just makes reasonable people wonder what kind of character God is. Only a Sadist God would want Sadists by his side.
Rice yields 265 pounds of protein per acre, corn yields 211 pounds of protein per acre, and legumes yield 192 pounds of protein per acre. In contrast, milk production yields only 82 pounds of protein per acre, egg production yields only 78 pounds of protein per acre, and meat production yields only 45 pounds of protein per acre with beef (your favorite) being the most wasteful at only 20 pounds of protein per acre.
Rice requires 1912 liters and potatoes require 500 liters per kilogram of food produced. In contrast, the production of chicken meat requires 3500 liters of water per kilogram of food and the production of beef requires 100,000 liters of water per kilogram of food.
Here are some of the best estimates (remember best estimates, the worst estimates are, you guessed it, even worse.)
It takes roughly 4.8 pounds of grain, or 16 pounds of grass, to produce a pound of beef on average (Motavalli, McKibben). How much bread could that make?
Or in other words when you are eating beef or any other meat you are not only killing the cow or the chicken but you are also killing 16 pounds of grass/ 4.8 pounds of grain(probably wheat) which could have been consumed directly.
Regarding the bacteria thingy, better start invent some thing to remove the bacteria from my drinks and then accuse me of being a bacteria killer. LOL
The point is you are killing that animal based on superstition. Eating it is secondary. PRIMARY MOTIVE BEHIND KILLING, TO APPEASE THE GODS.
Oh yeah, if you belief asks of you to run naked on the road then it's of no problem to anyone. The problem comes when your beliefs (or your habits) interferes with this planet's creations.
And BTW I call myself a hindu rather than an atheist. But the difference between myself and others is, I don't let religion take center stage before Logic, Reasoning or any earthly matters. Religion is locked in my mind tight and never ventures out into the real world.
The best way to explain it is, I keep religion locked up in my imagination along with other such imaginary things. You may argue that I am an atheist in spirit and all, but thats another issue alltogether and open for debate in another thread.
Last edited by Tronic; 18 Jun 06, at 15:35.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
Soon it won't be in Gujarat.
I didn't make the comparison first.So, whats the big deal about fresh pigs meat in UAE? Are you suggesting that something terriffic is being done in UAE because they sell pork, fresh, stale or putrifying being immaterial an issue.
It's cut up here? There are these pork butchery sections in every supermarket. It's sold in a separate section (just incase someone picks it up mistakenly).I have not understood this "fresh" categorisation. Are you suggesting stale or putrifying stuff is sold elsewhere?
There's not much of a market for it in Pakistan, but you get it in Dubai.Do we get pork in Pakistani markets and other Islamic markets?
You mean in a separate section? Surely you're not saying they're selling it hidden from the government.For sure, you don't get it in Malaysia, except in malls and that too tucked away in some obscure corner.
We're talking about going to prison for life for slaughtering a cow.Hell, alcohol is not abvailable in the open market in Paksitan!
You're easily amused.And our good boy Asim pontificates from the Mount!!
What a laugh!
Beef is my birthright!!
It sez so in The Book!!
Gimme gimme gimme.. else you are a intolerant hate-monger.
Last edited by Vaman; 18 Jun 06, at 16:55.
Both of you stop with the personal attacks.Quite an interesting post Blademaster.
You've contributed tons of posts concerning Pakistan in numerous threads yet you give a damn about Pakistan as its 'worth toiletpaper they are printed on
You must have a shyt fetish!
much of a market??? lol... Pork is ILLEGAL in Pakistan, so duh.. there isn't any market for Pork in Pakistan...
dude, people should be thrown into prison for killing any animal... but slaughtering cows (in slaughter houses ofcourse) and selling beef is LEGAL in India, so I don't know who's going to jail...We're talking about going to prison for life for slaughtering a cow.
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
He he. I cook veal in my home every other week. To me its just another meat.Ugghh! I could never eat a veal, knowing that it was a baby cow. Something unholy about that. I do eat beef.
Coz a lot of state govts have hindu endowment boards, which takes care of the temples.
I do wear veshti for festivals and functions, when we sacrifice animals to eat them.The practice of wearing dothis is time immemorial too, why do you wear pants and shirts now?
Not really. It happened during the vedic ages and life in Indian subcontinent is much more older than that. And if you want to subdjcate people, dont complaint if you get beaten or killed by them.The practice of subjugating lower castes/shudras are time immemorial too, So I guess we should just use them like dirt since it is also part of our tradition.
Those days they didnt have meat and chop shops, so people hunted to get their animals. I'm not going to sweat to just get a goat. Infact people like the Colonel do hunt once in a while.The practice of hunting wild animals is also time immemorial too, may be we should just go and wipe out the remaining 10's or so wild animals left.
I dont know whether you came from a family of boot lickers, but the area where I come from lost just to the British.The practice of losing and licking foreigners boots seems to be a habit of ours too, perhasps we should just let pakistani's invade us too.
Go on, flash your stupidity to all.Want more time immemorial/time tested traditions I have hundreds more...
Humans have been eating meat time immeorial, there is nothing wrong in it, we will keep doing so.The fact is when I find people justifying a stupid habit of theirs just because it is time immemorial, I just wonder at their "brilliance". Nothing personal...
So you didnt comfortably respond to the life of the plant.
The same right you had to kill the living plants.Again playing God are we. I mean who gives you the right to just kill animals at will just because they become useful to you. I mean, after slaving/working their entire lives serving people like you the only reward they get is death. Brilliant!
You never made any sense. Cows are not humans. They dont earn money for their retirement nor their calves take care of them after retirement. They dont live in a forest where other wild animals would kill them, remember darwinism?It's like "You worked for me day and night and helped me to survive in this world, so here is the reward you have been waiting for- a nice painfull horrific death."
Is it just me or does the above sentence dosen't makes sense?
After they are done with the shelf lives, its better to kill them.
No one says you will go to heaven for sacrificing a goat. The rituals were to give food to the community.And the funny part of life is that when these religious people do these kind of barbaric acts of cruelty beyond belief, they say stuff like "Ha, I have done good all my life so I will be going to heaven." It just makes reasonable people wonder what kind of character God is. Only a Sadist God would want Sadists by his side.
And who said I eat meat for proteins?Rice yields 265 pounds of protein per acre, corn yields 211 pounds of protein per acre, and legumes yield 192 pounds of protein per acre. In contrast, milk production yields only 82 pounds of protein per acre, egg production yields only 78 pounds of protein per acre, and meat production yields only 45 pounds of protein per acre with beef (your favorite) being the most wasteful at only 20 pounds of protein per acre.
So?? Still rice cannot taste ike beef can it?Rice requires 1912 liters and potatoes require 500 liters per kilogram of food produced. In contrast, the production of chicken meat requires 3500 liters of water per kilogram of food and the production of beef requires 100,000 liters of water per kilogram of food.
I dont know and I dont care. If you dont eat at all, you dont need even that bread. Why dont you fast 4 days in a week??It takes roughly 4.8 pounds of grain, or 16 pounds of grass, to produce a pound of beef on average (Motavalli, McKibben). How much bread could that make?
And that still does not taste like beef.Or in other words when you are eating beef or any other meat you are not only killing the cow or the chicken but you are also killing 16 pounds of grass/ 4.8 pounds of grain(probably wheat) which could have been consumed directly.
Every breath you take has many more bacterias, so stop being an idiot.Regarding the bacteria thingy, better start invent some thing to remove the bacteria from my drinks and then accuse me of being a bacteria killer. LOL
Dont force yor answer on me, I kill animals to eat. I kill animals in our temple, not to go to heaven, but to have a decent mouth watering meal in the noon.The point is you are killing that animal based on superstition. Eating it is secondary. PRIMARY MOTIVE BEHIND KILLING, TO APPEASE THE GODS.
Not killing cows will interfere with the planet.Oh yeah, if you belief asks of you to run naked on the road then it's of no problem to anyone. The problem comes when your beliefs (or your habits) interferes with this planet's creations.
Eating cows or animals has nothing to do with religion or being hindu. The god didnt ask us to eat animals, we eat coz its available in abundance.And BTW I call myself a hindu rather than an atheist. But the difference between myself and others is, I don't let religion take center stage before Logic, Reasoning or any earthly matters. Religion is locked in my mind tight and never ventures out into the real world.
If you dont meat its your choice, you have no effing rights to call other meat eaters as barbaric. In the same case, I'll just call you a grazing animal, like a cow.
Last edited by Jay; 18 Jun 06, at 19:05.
A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!
For god's sakes man read the original post at least. BJP is moving to change state laws, hence prompting all the comotion from the government, hence this thread popped up.
Alcohol on the other hand has a higher market and is made in Pakistan. Not that I think its anything to be proud of, just pointing out Market differences. Some Muslims who do go drinking still abstain from eating pork. Go figure. But these are still not even a large minority.
Last edited by Asim Aquil; 18 Jun 06, at 21:05.
No I was not referring to him. Just others. Besides cannot comment on it anymore since the mods asked me to stop.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
BJP should team up with Pam Anderson against India's leather industry where thousands of cows get slaughtered everyday.
If at first you don't succeed, call it v1.0!
lol... quit on it Asim... this is India, and BJP cannot just simply pass or repel laws without the approval of Parliament... maybe you don't know how democracies work... A BJP proposal does not mean Law...
eating pork??? you mean getting pork illegaly and then consuming it??? and also, Alcohol is also suppose to be illegal in Pakistan...Alcohol on the other hand has a higher market and is made in Pakistan. Not that I think its anything to be proud of, just pointing out Market differences. Some Muslims who do go drinking still abstain from eating pork. Go figure. But these are still not even a large minority.
and here is something about the Customs of Pakistan I found on Pakistan Travel Guide:
Pakistan is a strict Muslim state and therefore alcohol and pork products are forbidden by law. Homosexuality is illegal. Women in particular are expected to dress and behave decorously in public; even in the large cities shoulders and legs should be covered, and men should not wear shorts. Westerners should expect to be stared at - this is not considered rude in Pakistan, and is purely because you are new and different. Religious customs should be respected, particularly during the month of Ramadan when eating, drinking and smoking during daylight hours should be discreet as it is forbidden by the Muslim culture.
http://www.cheapflights.co.uk/travel...tan/Index.html
The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands but seeing with new eyes.
If God didn't want us to eat animals, She wouldn't have made them out of meat...
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry
Are you certain god's a SHE?
If at first you don't succeed, call it v1.0!
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