Thread: Fatwa against singing Vande Mataram

Originally Posted by Tronic

doesn't change anything... they were looser who didn't know how to co-exist with others... (and that might be the reason why Islam is getting it's ass kicked all over the world...)

Jinnah only made a whole new country and was a kick ass accomplished lawyer.

actually... no one touches anyone's feet no more... almost everyone now has amassed their own ego's... but anywayz... I found this link to a Sunni site which says it is ok, to bow down or touch someones feet as long as muslims follow certain laws... infact it even goes so far in kissing someone's feet??????

Ewww kissing, is that included in the "Paoon chuo beti" Process? Err the link states if you avoid a posture of prostration then thats ok, but otherwise its not at all permissible.

Muslims aren't feet phobic or anything, just won't bow to a person. For example while giving a foot massage everyone.

oh please... you just wish to see discontent between muslims in India... won't happen... and this isn't first fatwa issued... many such fatwa's have been issued before and largely ignored by the public... (yes, even the muslim public...)

It's the best thing that could happen to India. Enforcement of good set laws. Equality, Justice and Freedom for all Indians.

The word Allah predates Islam and wasn't used for Moon God. That was Apollo!

Apollo is the Sun God.

Allah is derived from the word illahi. Al (the) Illah (diety). So Allah becomes THE DIETY!

Thats the propaganda you want people to believe in.

Other viewpoints and people representing them have been systematically exterminated anyway.

Incidentally even Arabic bibles refer to God as Allah!

Written after the advent of Islam when calling God by any name other than Allah could lead to beheading.

For rest of the folks: Ila being a Moon God has a more ancient root, earliest being described as the daughter of Manu. A definite feminine connotation.

Yeah, quite similar to Selene the female Moon Goddess.

Jinnah only made a whole new country and was a kick ass accomplished lawyer...

and a mass murderer who incited violence.Recall Direct Action to 'cleanse' the land.

Originally Posted by Confed999

So then the answer is none, as I'm sure people do not sing it all the time. No punishment, no problems.

Only every student, every morning.

That's all you wrote. =P You said Christians do not call God "God" commonly. I've never heard a Christian call God anything but.

Did I say that? I said its a word that's used so often as a common noun rather than a Proper noun. Just the opposite of Allah.

I agree, but a song is not practice, it's a song.

Only forced upon every student, every morning.

Then don't sing it. Problem solved...

That IS the call in the Fatwa!

Originally Posted by Garuda

Since there are lot of Westerner's in this board/forum, they'll be gald to educate you on basic Greek mythology. Apollo stands for Sun.

Apollo moon mission?? Ok thats about all I was basing that on.

And please do some research on the roots of the word Ila, Ela,... Yes, you are right Allah (Al-Lat) predates Islam. But haven't you already scored a self - goal?

Allah by definition has been used by all monotheistic religions in Arabia. THE GOD! That's why the underlying principle in Islam states: LA illaha (no diety), illAllah (but THE DIETY).

Since the word predate Islam, does it not occur to you lot many ancient cultures know its significance? How come Mohammeds ramblings have any special standing in light of already existing mythology?

Judasim and Christianity were known and rejected religions in Pagan Mecca. When he used the monotheistic referrence to God, Allah, they knew he was asking to reject 300 gods for the one true God.

For rest of the folks: Ila being a Moon God has a more ancient root, earliest being described as the daughter of Manu. A definite feminine connotation.

Ila sounds malayalum for "No". Its Ilaah in the Arabic word. Of course Ilaah was used for hundreds of Gods, like Shams-ul-laah (sun god). We can have a Qamar illah too (Moon God), rain god, this god, that god. They would ALL be called something-illah. But only perhaps Christians and Jews would've used Allah.

The dingbat who issued the fatwa against singing Vande Mataram represents the scum of society and should be thrown behind bars for using religion to tarnish and discredit the freedom struggle.

They are an utter disgrace to their own religion and to the concept of co-existence.

Such fools should not be tolerated.

Confed you were talking about punishment? Just by speaking against the assembly singing of Vande Mataram Hindu parties have launched protests to arrest the maulvi.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5...2500030002.htm

ACTIVISTS OF the Adarsh Bharatiya Sangh burnt the effigy of chairman of Sunni Ulema Board Syed Shah Badruddin Kadri for issuing a fatwa against national song ‘Vande Mataram,’ at Varanasi Cantonment Railway Station on Wednesday.

National president of Sangh, Dr Sanjay Chaubey demanded from the government to lodge a case of treason against Badruddin Kadri. He said that the fatwa on ‘Vande Mataram’ was against the spirit of Indian Constitution.

He said that some religious leaders were trying to disturb the peace of the country and that was why they were trying to instigate people of a particular community for their vested interests. The Sangh members demanded from the government to ensure immediate arrest of Badruddin Kadri.

Ramashray Patel, Prakash Patel, Anil Singh, Gopal Patel, Sushil Kumar, Rajkumar Rai, Dinesh Chaurasia, Ajay Gupta, Ravi Shanker Patel, Manoj Kumar, Uma Shanker and Anar Nath Yadav were among others who addressed the dharna.

Sangh members also threatened to launch a massive agitation in case Kadri was not arrested soon. Besides, the Sangh members have also decided to file a public interest litigation in the High Court in support of their demands.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Confed you were talking about punishment? Just by speaking against the assembly singing of Vande Mataram Hindu parties have launched protests to arrest the maulvi.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5...2500030002.htm

The bastard deserves to be shot. He encouraged sedition. He is lucky that he happens to live in India or else.........

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Jinnah only made a whole new country and was a kick ass accomplished lawyer.

whatever he was... he only lasted for 4-5 years... apparently he couldn't do much in that time and Pakistan just went down the drain after him...

Ewww kissing, is that included in the "Paoon chuo beti" Process? Err the link states if you avoid a posture of prostration then thats ok, but otherwise its not at all permissible.

this is what the link states...

Is it permitted to touch the feet of elders? It is common in our culture.
In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

There are few situations here:

1) If one was to touch or kiss the feet of the future parents in-Law in a way that the posture of prostration was avoided, then this has two possibilities:

a) If the person whom one is touching the feet is from the opposite sex and is a non-mahram [someone of one’s immediate family of those whom one cannot marry], then to touch the feet will be impermissible. Therefore, it will not be permissible for the prospective bride to touch the feet of her future father in-Law, as he is regarded a stranger in Shariah before marriage, unless he is a mahram, such as an uncle.

b) If the person whom one is kissing and touching the feet is from the same sex or he/she happens to be a Mahram (unmarriageable kin), then in principle it is permissible to kiss the feet (SeeDurr al-Mukhtar). ( I agree Asim... kissing feet... eww...)

However, if touching or kissing the feet of the future parents in-Laws is regarded as part of the marriage in Islam, and is considered an act of reward, then there is no basis for this in Shariah and should be avoided.

2) If the kissing or touching was practised in the posture of prostration, then this is unlawful (haram) and regarded as one of the major sins.

The prostration of worship (sajda al-ibadah), for other than Allah, is absolutely and undeniably disbelief (kufr). The prostration of respect (sujud al-ta`dhim) or greeting (tahiyya), for other than Allah, is unlawful and a major sin, according to all four Sunni schools of law, and could lead one to kufr.

The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) is reported to have said:

“It is not permissible for one human to prostrate in front of another.” (Sunan Tirmidhi).

Given this and similar texts, the scholars are unanimous on the fact that any type of prostration for any besides Allah is strictly unlawful, and regarded a major sin. If practised out of worship, then it will be disbelief (kufr).

The common situation

Therefore, in your situation, if touching of the feet does not consist of touching the feet of a non-Mahram, and you are able to avoid the prostration posture, then it will be permissible, but normally better to avoid.

However, if the case is otherwise, then it would be obligatory to avoid. In such a case, explain to the elders of the family that this is a un-Islamic practise and must be avoided. Ensure this is done with gentleness, calmness and wisdom.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam al-Kawthari, UK

just explain to me that highlighted part... i got the part that you have to avoid the prostration posture... but, do explain the bolded part...

It's the best thing that could happen to India. Enforcement of good set laws. Equality, Justice and Freedom for all Indians.

lol... ofcourse, you mean that discontent among Indians will be the best thing to happen to Pakistan... and for your "Equality, Justice and Freedom "... well... all I can say is, get your own beloved Pakistan alligned up among those lines, India still happens to be MUCH further ahead of Pakistan in "Equality, Justice and Freedom "...

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Only every student, every morning.

I don't see where every student is punished every morning. I don't see where any student was ever punished.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Did I say that? I said its a word that's used so often as a common noun rather than a Proper noun. Just the opposite of Allah.

Again, not with Christians.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Only forced upon every student, every morning.

Again, I do not see where there is a punishment for not singing. Provide that information and you have a point, without it you're just blowing smoke.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

That IS the call in the Fatwa!

Not from the story provided, maybe you should read it again.
"...Muslims not to admit their children in schools where Vande Mataram is sung every morning. Children who are already studying in such institutions must be immediately shifted to other schools, the fatwa ordered."

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Confed you were talking about punishment? Just by speaking against the assembly singing of Vande Mataram Hindu parties have launched protests to arrest the maulvi.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5...2500030002.htm

Like I already said:

Originally Posted by Confed999

No fatwas, no complaints, no arguments, just ignore what you don't like, and accept that it is the belief of others. Failing to do that and you will find your own religion under attack, for the same reasons others have been attacked.

I love it when I'm right.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

The first time Jinnah spoke against Gandhi was in a joint address to the public. Gandhi came up on stage and stated that the only way towards freedom is through civil disobedience of the British and they have to apply the principles of Ahimsa and Sachagra (both Hindu concepts). Next was Jinnah's turn to speak and he came up on stage and said that he'd beg to differ from the proposed path of Mr. Gandhi.:

What do you call ahimsa and sachagara in islam???

So Jinnah had an problem with the term...ahimsa and not non violence....????So then why did he say he didnt agree with the proposed "path".

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Just with that he was booed and it created a violent stir amongst the Hindu crowd. Each time he called Gandhi Mr. Gandhi he was booed again since they wanted him to call him Mahatma!:

He is called Mahatma..by the world...but Jinnah wasnt ready to address him so and was booed by the crowd.usual and understandable.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Till that point he was said to be (even by Gandhi) the greatest Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity. And this was precisely the reason he went on to say in that adress that "You're calling forth a flood", "Don't bring religion into politics". But the Hindus of British India didn't listen.:

If Hindus wanted to bring relegion into politics they wud have demanded an Hindustan and could have easily got it.But they didnt.

Jinnah didnt like the hindu factor in national movement and went on to create a land for the muslims,while the relgious mahatma gandhi went on to make a land for all relegions!!!

Wierd isnt it.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

You can't make them change their religion just to appease Hindu sentiments. They can always switch to a more secular patriotic song for national unity. This is divisive, instead.:

Would u become a Hindu if u sing vante mataram.....are u so weak...is ur faith so feeble....what sort of a relegion is this ,if it changes colour at the slightest move of a finger...

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Ha! You mean live under subjugation? I always knew I'd beat out these words from one of you, the inner thoughts. Never figured, it'd be you!:

U used the word subjudication..not me..i said "understanding the feelings of majority".

Im least bothered abt what u or others think abt me..i say whats my opinion.

If u feel understanding is subjudication,then thats an issue with u and not me.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

You know the last time when Hindus said that to the Muslims of India? A Pakistan was formed. :

Why didnt they say 'hindus of India' and created an Hindustan.

U blame Gandhi of being a hindu leader,but he had the heart to not call for a hindstan,instead he created a secular state and what did ur famed Jinnah do ???Created a land for muslims.

So who is relegious and divisive?

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Maulvis preach Islam. Mind you there's a difference between the slang term Mullah and the urdu word Maulvi. :

U havnt answered my question..why are these relegious scholars silent abt other evils in society.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

You're now saying Islam = poison?

I didnt say anything like that,but u r trying to prove it is.

This Pakistani's a phsycho... I have hummed Vande Matram thousands of times... and i'm a sikh... but maybe Islam just aint that strong of a religion that a NATIONALISTIC song is seen as a threat to it... lol...

Great!

So the Hindu children should not sing Christian hymns in piblic school chapels!