My Opinion of Islam - Page 8

Ray · 04-23-2006, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Now, then...are all the infidels and unbelievers to be subjugated, or will we be allowed to live free when the World-Wide Caliphate imposes Shari'a law upon all of Allah's creation?

What gave the right to Moahmmed to declare others as infidels?

If I am infidel as per them, could I exercise the same self given right to call Moslems as .......... (since I don't want to inflame, I leave it for others to judge what one could call them).

I am tired of this holy nonsense of Islam claiming to be a super elixir of life and of every damned Moslem being "pious" and every illiterate, but with an excellent memory who can by rote recite the Koran, a scholar!

Piety and scholarly qualities does seem to veer clear of Islam if one goes by whats going on in the world.

If they were pious, then there would not have been all this mayhem which is duly supported by rooting for it or by silent agreement.

If the rote masters were scholarly, then their scholarship would have prompted them to realise that the world has to move on and without strife. They would have issued the magic that Islam alone possess - the Fatwa and stopped the mayhem.

Hypocrites, they live in a world of self deception!

Hrmph! Infidels!

BS.

OrdinaryGuy · 04-23-2006, 03:49 AM

religion is scripts and books written thousands of years ago to serve the needs of that time. In this day and age, most religions have chosen to ignore certain sections of their scripts which are irrelevant in today's time..

Devout muslims however wish to enforce Islam as it was written thousands of years ago... Even the portions that are irrelevant to our times. They propose Islam to be the perfect way of life, as written back then

That is the biggest pitfall of Islam im my opinion. It has not changed with time. Unless Muslims can wake up and question whats written in their scripts, and revise their interpretations with time... I see a vast majority of them remaining socially backward (womens rights, alcohol, sex issues, etc)

OrdinaryGuy · 04-23-2006, 03:52 AM

For example, islam forbids drinking alcohol. In today's world, alcohol abuse comes second to more serious substance abuse such as marijuana and coke.. Tobacco is very popular in islamic countries.. but alcohol is prohibited..

Muslims haven't revised their interpretation with time. They think what has been written so long ago is holy and perfect.. Either you should be banning tobacco and marijuana, or allow alcohol as well

sparten · 04-23-2006, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrdinaryGuy

religion is scripts and books written thousands of years ago to serve the needs of that time. In this day and age, most religions have chosen to ignore certain sections of their scripts which are irrelevant in today's time..

Devout muslims however wish to enforce Islam as it was written thousands of years ago... Even the portions that are irrelevant to our times. They propose Islam to be the perfect way of life, as written back then

That is the biggest pitfall of Islam im my opinion. It has not changed with time. Unless Muslims can wake up and question whats written in their scripts, and revise their interpretations with time... I see a vast majority of them remaining socially backward (womens rights, alcohol, sex issues, etc)

Drinking alcohol is an example of modernism? Is that what you are saying?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrdinaryGuy

Muslims haven't revised their interpretation with time. They think what has been written so long ago is holy and perfect.. Either you should be banning tobacco and marijuana, or allow alcohol as well

So apparently you somehow know what all muslims think.
FYI lots of things about Islam today are very different from say around 600 years agao. To take your favourite example, drinking alcohol was thought at one time to be permitted, not forbidden, only discourged. The Muslims in Spain, the Mughals in India all used to drink like sailors. Lots of poetry on alochol, Rumi comes to mind, as does Omer Khayyum.

sparten · 04-23-2006, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Now, then...are all the infidels and unbelievers to be subjugated, or will we be allowed to live free when the World-Wide Caliphate imposes Shari'a law upon all of Allah's creation?

Y'all gonna let me do body shots of tequila off the stripper's navel down at the Boom-Boom Room in New Medina (formerly Washington DC)?

Or should I stockpile some IEDs and AK ammo for the fun times we got scheduled for New Fallujah (formerly Tampa)?

Because that's MY vision: if ya'll get your way, my freedoms don't mean squat anymore, and most of 'em will be strictly forbidden. Such is the intolerance of Islam: I can't live the way I want to if it goes against what YOU may happen to believe.

ANYhoo, I'll let you answer as you will: am I equal to you in the eyes of Islamic law?

Whoa, who said anything about Islamic Caliphate?
What exactly do you mean by equal? . You may well accuse me of having a very "legalistic" approach to it, perhaps you are right, but well....

As for your specific questions

Y'all gonna let me do body shots of tequila off the stripper's navel down at the Boom-Boom Room in New Medina (formerly Washington DC)?
Sure, go ahead, enjoy, piece of advice, though don't let your wife find out. Its also not the most hygenic thing either.

Or should I stockpile some IEDs and AK ammo for the fun times we got scheduled for New Fallujah (formerly Tampa)?
Well I would use a G3 myself, but obviously you can keep guns if you want. IEDs may well be a different matter.Maybe I could come down to "New Fallujah" and we could go hunting?

Because that's MY vision:
Okay now, this is getting very contorted here.
First of all there is no "islamic caliphate" nd there has never been one. Either sir, you are ignorant of history, or you disregard it casually when it does not suit your arguement.
The Arabs began to fight amongst themselves about 15 years after Muhammad's death. Looks like rule number 1; unity of a state, is missing for such expansionist tendancies.

Secondly in the unlikely event, that your feared Islamic Caliphate did occur and yiou were subjected to the rule of the "Swarthy ones", well lets look at history again. The Middle east and North Africa was majority non muslim for several hundred years after the arrival of Islam. Don;t believe me, check Bernard Lewis. It was the crusades, and Dicky the Lionhearts thinking that all people there were muslim that actually turned that place majorty muslim. Spain is all muslims is'nt it? And so is East Europe, the Ukraine, Scicily, Southern Italy, Corsica, Sout France, Malta all ruled in some case for hundred of years bu muslims. Apparently their riights did not matter sqat there either and they all became muslim and are now a part of the Islamic world........... hey wait a minute, they are not muslim are they. In fact many muslim country have large ties living in peace for hundred of years, Syria, Lebabnon, Iraq (tariq Aziz), Malaysia, Indonesia. Apparently for some reason there rights did "matter a squat".

Sir, the type of statments that you have put out on these topics for the past few weeks are imbecilic to be kind. Not something that you expect from a person of your calibre. I am sure as a military man and an American citizen, 9-11 and the current Iraq war must be a difficult thing to swallow. But, you don't really serve anything or anyone by making such statements.

Bluesman · 04-23-2006, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparten

Whoa, who said anything about Islamic Caliphate?
What exactly do you mean by equal? . You may well accuse me of having a very "legalistic" approach to it, perhaps you are right, but well....

As for your specific questions

Y'all gonna let me do body shots of tequila off the stripper's navel down at the Boom-Boom Room in New Medina (formerly Washington DC)?
Sure, go ahead, enjoy, piece of advice, though don't let your wife find out. Its also not the most hygenic thing either.

Or should I stockpile some IEDs and AK ammo for the fun times we got scheduled for New Fallujah (formerly Tampa)?
Well I would use a G3 myself, but obviously you can keep guns if you want. IEDs may well be a different matter.Maybe I could come down to "New Fallujah" and we could go hunting?

Because that's MY vision:
Okay now, this is getting very contorted here.
First of all there is no "islamic caliphate" nd there has never been one. Either sir, you are ignorant of history, or you disregard it casually when it does not suit your arguement.
The Arabs began to fight amongst themselves about 15 years after Muhammad's death. Looks like rule number 1; unity of a state, is missing for such expansionist tendancies.

Secondly in the unlikely event, that your feared Islamic Caliphate did occur and yiou were subjected to the rule of the "Swarthy ones", well lets look at history again. The Middle east and North Africa was majority non muslim for several hundred years after the arrival of Islam. Don;t believe me, check Bernard Lewis. It was the crusades, and Dicky the Lionhearts thinking that all people there were muslim that actually turned that place majorty muslim. Spain is all muslims is'nt it? And so is East Europe, the Ukraine, Scicily, Southern Italy, Corsica, Sout France, Malta all ruled in some case for hundred of years bu muslims. Apparently their riights did not matter sqat there either and they all became muslim and are now a part of the Islamic world........... hey wait a minute, they are not muslim are they. In fact many muslim country have large ties living in peace for hundred of years, Syria, Lebabnon, Iraq (tariq Aziz), Malaysia, Indonesia. Apparently for some reason there rights did "matter a squat".

Sir, the type of statments that you have put out on these topics for the past few weeks are imbecilic to be kind. Not something that you expect from a person of your calibre. I am sure as a military man and an American citizen, 9-11 and the current Iraq war must be a difficult thing to swallow. But, you don't really serve anything or anyone by making such statements.

Well...what a load of crap to just go all the way around NOT answering my question.

Which is really all the answer I need.

Thanks.

Ray · 04-23-2006, 04:44 AM

I saw the BBC Hard talk and a British Moslem jailed in Egypt talks of the Caliphate and he is serious about it.

Make up your mind.

Caliphate or no Caliphate?!

Also, explain what ordained Islam to declare others as infidels?

Could Moslems not be the real infidels?

Actually, Moslems are a confused lot. They know not what they want.

They keep clutching straws!

platinum786 · 04-23-2006, 05:48 AM

You see the truth of it all is that you are all afraid. You think by condemning and altering in your minds the greatest power on earth you might be able to control Islam.

What scares you all is a guy from a desert 1400 years ago came out with a message and people all around believed it like wildfire. You cannot understand what allows a person from Indonesia to feel compelled to fight in Afghanistan against a third country. The love between these people, the unifying force, it scares you.

What scares you is that whilst religion around you falls, and the church has lost all direction and the worlds olddest religion is still shackeled to it's own backward confinements of the Indian subcontinent, Islam has become the guy next door, the house on the corner, your petrol pump assistant, it's near to you, it's powerful and you don't understand it.

No force has been able to make men give the ultimate sacrifice, even for an evil cause, the hijackers of 911 knew what they where doing was pure evil, yet thier faith allowed them to supress the fear and they killed thousands whilst commiting scuicide, your afriad of that power, because all you see is this day and night.

So feel free to condemn what you like, call Islam whatever you like, spread this hate into your children, you'll need to in order to save them from Islam. It's evident that none of you people wish to learn but instead wish to condemnso go right ahead.

platinum786 · 04-23-2006, 05:53 AM

If Islam is the greatest evil to have ever beseiged the earth, then why did a high class, independent rich woman journalist convert to islam after seeing Taliban Afghanistan?

Tell me why did Yvonne Ridley do what she did?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/3673730.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yvonne_Ridley

http://www.islamchannel.tv/ProgramDe...date=4/23/2006

Hari_Om · 04-23-2006, 07:15 AM

Stockholm Syndrome.

platinum786 · 04-23-2006, 08:11 AM

she converted after she came back
a free woman

**Shek** · 04-23-2006, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinum786

she converted after she came back
a free woman

Stockholm Syndrome can still apply after you have been released from captivity.

Ray · 04-23-2006, 09:46 AM

Because she was a high class idiot and a high class woman with a weak mind.

That's why.

There are a lot of high class rich women who commit suicide, but then does it mean that suicide is a terrific thing and all should commit suicide?

Actually no one is afraid to face the truth.

Islam is what is afraid. It was afraid of Salman Rushdie and his Satanic Verse and so it decided to shut his mouth before he spilled the beans totally!

The guy from the desert did not spread Islam like wild fire. His followers were wild and they spread it with the sword and repressive laws like the jezia.

BTW why did such a rich and famous person like Richard Gere converted to Buddhism?

Doesn't the logic of being rich and conversion to justify the greatness of A or B appear totally stupid and juvenile?

What do you think, you are impressing village folks of Pakistan with such stories where the actions of the 'rich and famous" seem to be the be all and end all of all debate?

It works in the Pakistani villages but not in other parts of the world!

Tronic · 04-23-2006, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparten

Secondly in the unlikely event, that your feared Islamic Caliphate did occur and yiou were subjected to the rule of the "Swarthy ones", well lets look at history again. The Middle east and North Africa was majority non muslim for several hundred years after the arrival of Islam. Don;t believe me, check Bernard Lewis. It was the crusades, and Dicky the Lionhearts thinking that all people there were muslim that actually turned that place majorty muslim. Spain is all muslims is'nt it? And so is East Europe, the Ukraine, Scicily, Southern Italy, Corsica, Sout France, Malta all ruled in some case for hundred of years bu muslims. Apparently their riights did not matter sqat there either and they all became muslim and are now a part of the Islamic world........... hey wait a minute, they are not muslim are they.

errmm... actually, Spain has a pretty large Muslim poplulation, Eastern Europe (Ukraine included), Scicily, Southern Italy, these were never ruled by any muslims. The furthest the muslims got was at the walls of Vienna. And it shouldn't even be said "muslims" especially since it was the Ottoman Empire, your refering to. The Ottomans were quite secular and they cared more about their Empire then their religion. The Ottomans probably would have traded in their religion if they were promised world conquest... maybe thats why, Turkey still manages to stay secular and there is no great muslim uprising against the government in that country... unlike all the other muslim countries...

Quote:

In fact many muslim country have large ties living in peace for hundred of years, Syria, Lebabnon, Iraq (tariq Aziz), Malaysia, Indonesia. Apparently for some reason there rights did "matter a squat".

yea sure they have large ties with each other since they all happen to be muslim. In Indonesia Islamic extremists are already trying to establish an Islamic Republic there...

Quote:

Sir, the type of statments that you have put out on these topics for the past few weeks are imbecilic to be kind. Not something that you expect from a person of your calibre. I am sure as a military man and an American citizen, 9-11 and the current Iraq war must be a difficult thing to swallow. But, you don't really serve anything or anyone by making such statements.

What he is saying is the truth... I'm sortta against the bombardment of Islam aswell but if you think about it, Islamic terrorists supported by Islamic governments bring down their own image of Islam... trust me, when the New Delhi Diwali bomb blasts happened, it really got me fired up against Islam and against Islamic views.

Amled · 04-23-2006, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinum786
No force has been able to make men give the ultimate sacrifice, even for an evil cause, the hijackers of 911 knew what they where doing was pure evil, yet their faith allowed them to suppress the fear and they killed thousands whilst committing suicide, your afraid of that power, because all you see is this day and night.

What a compendium of dreck!
History is filled with people who have given their lives for their fellow man, their families, their countries, their faith.
Police officers, members of fire and rescue units and military personnel risk it daily.
During WWII hundreds of young Japanese went to their death in so-called “kamikaze” attacks, and thousands more were lining up to join them when the war ended.
On one notable occasion 300 Spartans faced down an army a thousands times greater in number, knowing that they would die.
Their actions are and were noble, whereas the actions of the 9/11 perpetrators can only be described as cowardly and perverted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by platinum786
Tell me why did Yvonne Ridley do what she did?

Who knows!
Maybe she thought that Islam was better then AA!

04-23-2006, 09:46 AM	#118 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,144 Country:	Because she was a high class idiot and a high class woman with a weak mind. That's why. There are a lot of high class rich women who commit suicide, but then does it mean that suicide is a terrific thing and all should commit suicide? Actually no one is afraid to face the truth. Islam is what is afraid. It was afraid of Salman Rushdie and his Satanic Verse and so it decided to shut his mouth before he spilled the beans totally! The guy from the desert did not spread Islam like wild fire. His followers were wild and they spread it with the sword and repressive laws like the jezia. BTW why did such a rich and famous person like Richard Gere converted to Buddhism? Doesn't the logic of being rich and conversion to justify the greatness of A or B appear totally stupid and juvenile? What do you think, you are impressing village folks of Pakistan with such stories where the actions of the 'rich and famous" seem to be the be all and end all of all debate? It works in the Pakistani villages but not in other parts of the world! Last edited by Ray : 04-23-2006 at 09:54 AM.

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04-23-2006, 03:49 AM	#107 (permalink)
OrdinaryGuy Contributor Join Date: 09-24-05 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 361 Country:	religion is scripts and books written thousands of years ago to serve the needs of that time. In this day and age, most religions have chosen to ignore certain sections of their scripts which are irrelevant in today's time.. Devout muslims however wish to enforce Islam as it was written thousands of years ago... Even the portions that are irrelevant to our times. They propose Islam to be the perfect way of life, as written back then That is the biggest pitfall of Islam im my opinion. It has not changed with time. Unless Muslims can wake up and question whats written in their scripts, and revise their interpretations with time... I see a vast majority of them remaining socially backward (womens rights, alcohol, sex issues, etc)

04-23-2006, 03:52 AM	#108 (permalink)
OrdinaryGuy Contributor Join Date: 09-24-05 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 361 Country:	For example, islam forbids drinking alcohol. In today's world, alcohol abuse comes second to more serious substance abuse such as marijuana and coke.. Tobacco is very popular in islamic countries.. but alcohol is prohibited.. Muslims haven't revised their interpretation with time. They think what has been written so long ago is holy and perfect.. Either you should be banning tobacco and marijuana, or allow alcohol as well

04-23-2006, 04:44 AM	#112 (permalink)
Ray Postmaster General *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 26,144 Country:	I saw the BBC Hard talk and a British Moslem jailed in Egypt talks of the Caliphate and he is serious about it. Make up your mind. Caliphate or no Caliphate?! Also, explain what ordained Islam to declare others as infidels? Could Moslems not be the real infidels? Actually, Moslems are a confused lot. They know not what they want. They keep clutching straws!

04-23-2006, 05:48 AM	#113 (permalink)
platinum786 Banished Join Date: 06-14-04 Posts: 1,986	You see the truth of it all is that you are all afraid. You think by condemning and altering in your minds the greatest power on earth you might be able to control Islam. What scares you all is a guy from a desert 1400 years ago came out with a message and people all around believed it like wildfire. You cannot understand what allows a person from Indonesia to feel compelled to fight in Afghanistan against a third country. The love between these people, the unifying force, it scares you. What scares you is that whilst religion around you falls, and the church has lost all direction and the worlds olddest religion is still shackeled to it's own backward confinements of the Indian subcontinent, Islam has become the guy next door, the house on the corner, your petrol pump assistant, it's near to you, it's powerful and you don't understand it. No force has been able to make men give the ultimate sacrifice, even for an evil cause, the hijackers of 911 knew what they where doing was pure evil, yet thier faith allowed them to supress the fear and they killed thousands whilst commiting scuicide, your afriad of that power, because all you see is this day and night. So feel free to condemn what you like, call Islam whatever you like, spread this hate into your children, you'll need to in order to save them from Islam. It's evident that none of you people wish to learn but instead wish to condemnso go right ahead.

04-23-2006, 05:53 AM	#114 (permalink)
platinum786 Banished Join Date: 06-14-04 Posts: 1,986	If Islam is the greatest evil to have ever beseiged the earth, then why did a high class, independent rich woman journalist convert to islam after seeing Taliban Afghanistan? Tell me why did Yvonne Ridley do what she did? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/3673730.stm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yvonne_Ridley http://www.islamchannel.tv/ProgramDe...date=4/23/2006

04-23-2006, 07:15 AM	#115 (permalink)
Hari_Om Banished Join Date: 09-30-04 Posts: 1,049 Country:	Stockholm Syndrome.

04-23-2006, 08:11 AM	#116 (permalink)
platinum786 Banished Join Date: 06-14-04 Posts: 1,986	she converted after she came back a free woman

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