Anon

LOL, the twilight zone stomped this thread but good...

ZFBoxcar

I merged this thread with the other one of the same name. Your posts should be in here somewhere.

Parihaka

For one who professes the importance of accuracy, perhaps you might like to know that those quotes come poorly quoted from the OLD testament, which is of course a poorly quoted and edited version of the Torah, and is therefore the word of Allah or God rather than the word of Jesus, which is of course contained within the NEW Testament.

sparten

Sir,
The Qur'an does not say much as it is on inheritance, except that it is supposed to be equitable. That is the starting point.

Now the Hanfi schools law of inheritance is as you apparently know full well, very complicated, but the basic proposition is something like this

If a man dies leaving behind a wife and two children, a son and a daughter than the division of lthe estate is something like, 50 % son, 30% Daughter 20% wife, with the wife usually retaining a right to occupy her marital home till death.
If the daughter is unmarried, then depending on her age, and size of the estate the share is different, usually at the expense of the son.

Now to understand the reasoning for thr above, you need an understanding of hanfi property law. In it a mans property is not regarded as his absolutly, depending on circumstance, others may well have rights over them. A womens property is regareded as hers alone. Reasoning for that is the maintainece duty set out in the Quran and Hadith.
So Hanfi was of the opinion that since the sons property will be bound by encumberences and the daughter will inherit from (and has rights to)her husband's estates as well while the son will not inherit from his wife, so it was fair that the son gets a larger share.

IMO, he only made it complocated as hell.

The other schools divert from it as well. Hanbal does (but the man changed his mind several times, so its not really known what he believed) Maliks division can bring such a result but can also bring the opposite as well.

__________________
"Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

sparten

Insomniac,
Heres the full Quran. Stop quoting it out of context.


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Asim Aquil

I know. Later on in my following posts somewhere I think I acknowledged something like that. I was just giving him a taste of his own medicine.

Poor and selective quoting can make things look really ugly for one side, don't you think?

Ray

__________________

Parihaka,

The weasel at work.

Slippery as an eel.

A Testament to expert weasling!

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

2DREZQ

I couldn't agree more. I'm in a position that is a classic set-up for bigotry; I have suspicions about Islam as a whole, but every Muslim I've ever met or worked with has been a stand-up guy. (Best church-lady voice Hmmmm, Could it be The Media!?

__________________
USS North Dakota

platinum786

God declared before a battle to the prophet that encourage your people to fight, for if they are firm in thier beleif, if they are mentally prepared, if they think they can do it, they will beat heavy odds against an enemy unwilling and undetermined to fight. Ask anyone who's been to battle, see wether god was wrong, if the playing field is around aboout the same, those who want it more will get it.

Check out the other translations first, alll three of respectable and correct...

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Now lets take it a line at a time...
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other , well duh! Men are physically more capable than women and throught history have had the primary role of protector and provider and still today that continues.

Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. Which means stand by your man, do not sleep around when he's not about etc.

As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first),
ad·mon·ish ( P ) Pronunciation Key (d-mnsh)
tr.v. ad·mon·ished, ad·mon·ish·ing, ad·mon·ish·es
To reprove gently but earnestly.
To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution.
To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility.
so talk to them about it first...

and banish them to beds apart
break away from the, give them the cold shoulder, let them know that you are hurt by thier actions.
(And last) beat them (lightly); well that's, news to me, but i don't it's socially acceptable anymore, but i don't think that many men would not flip out if they found thier missues had been sleeping around.

but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all). and if she's sorry don't bare a grudge, as we are all sinners.

Bluesman

What an incredibly and conveniently lenient translation we have here. Certainly nothing at all like what the scholars with all them Islamic credentials seem to find in the Big Book of Mind Control. The fellas with the funny hats and bathrobes sure don't seem to read it like that.

Frankly, even with the translation cited here for the purpose of convincing us all how forward-looking and progressive Islam is, the message comes through to me loud and clear: dudes are in charge; chicks are property. Both of you act like it, or it's a sin against Big Cheese.

Sounds like a con to me. Sounds like the threat of some hairy-scary ooga-booga god dishing out punishment in the hereafter to keep the booty from straying too far or gettin' sassy, with some right-here/right-now violence being condoned just in case there's not enough buy-in of the mythology by the gals to keep everybody under control while they're still on Earth.

In short, it reinforces my notion that a Muslim male is insecure about his ability to keep and hold a woman that he is excused from showing respect towards, and plays to the violent streak that's at the heart of the whole rotten mess of a belief system.

__________________
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell

Bluesman

Now, then...are all the infidels and unbelievers to be subjugated, or will we be allowed to live free when the World-Wide Caliphate imposes Shari'a law upon all of Allah's creation?

Y'all gonna let me do body shots of tequila off the stripper's navel down at the Boom-Boom Room in New Medina (formerly Washington DC)?

Or should I stockpile some IEDs and AK ammo for the fun times we got scheduled for New Fallujah (formerly Tampa)?

Because that's MY vision: if ya'll get your way, my freedoms don't mean squat anymore, and most of 'em will be strictly forbidden. Such is the intolerance of Islam: I can't live the way I want to if it goes against what YOU may happen to believe.

ANYhoo, I'll let you answer as you will: am I equal to you in the eyes of Islamic law?

2DREZQ

As a Christian, I find this sort of behaviour morally repugnant.

As an American, I'll expend my last round of .308 to defend your right to engage in behaviour that I find repugnant.


BTW, You'll have to knock a few US senators out of the way to get to that tequila.

Tronic

Bluesman... i find this view of yours completely hypocrite, because it's not an Islamic invasion of America, but an American invasion of the Middle East...

__________________
Nabha Sparasham Deeptam
-Touch The Sky With Glory

Shek

Tronic,
He's talking about the dream of the Salafist jihadis that want to establish a worldwide caliphate.

__________________
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

Ray