My Opinion of Islam

**JAD_333** · 20 May 07, 22:12

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Bob Jones

Personaly I am not religous in the slightest, there has been a lot of pain and suffering inflicted in the alleged name of religion down the years,

We all know this to be true, but you cannot escape it by refusing to be religious. If there were no religion, war would be justified somehow.

Years ago I read somewhere that all wars are based on economics, and refused to believe it. At that time, I believed in all the glorious rationales. But the more I read history the more it made sense.

For example, anyway you cut it the Iraq war today is about oil. It's about security too, but only to counter terrorists attacks by organizations wanting to control Middle East oil.

Many believe that Bin Laden's reason for attacking the US is religiously motivated. But he says something else in his manifesto, which is laced with references to control of natural resources, righting territorial disputes, and forming new political structures.

We've all heard it said that he uses religion as a way of gaining supporters. It seems such a foregone conclusion that we don't think to ask why.

The simple reason is that the Muslim masses in the Middle East are politically retarded relative to the Western masses. Except for in a few Muslim countries, they haven't been free to protest openly, to develop political parties or form loyal oppositions. Their one unifying commonality is Islam. This makes them the ideal target for political appeals based on Islam, as well Bin Laden and his ilk know.

Modern Western political parties would be laughed at today if they called for war on religious grounds. We passed that stage long ago, notwithstanding the influence of the religious right.

Thus, one would think that a good weapon to counter Bin Laden would be education of the masses. It would, but what western country would do it?
It would mean exposing the political inequities practiced by the Saudis, the Egyptians and other of our Mid-east friends, with perhaps the exception of Turkey where dissent is tolerated.

In short, don't blame religion for wars. Blame politicians.

**Kansas Bear** · 20 May 07, 23:52

Originally Posted by Big K

to all WAB members,

this is a very good exemple of what i' ve sad at the last post.

2 questions:

1- Death of Hrant Dink served who? to the Turkish Govt.? or Turkish nationalists?? having all this negative reactions from all around the world...why??
clearly it was not served to Turks...not at all. so why to kill him? and a better question who killed him?..
who have a profit from the death of Hrank Dink?..

Who profits from Article 301?
Article 301 states the following.

A person who publicly denigrates Turkishness, the Republic or the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and three years.
A person who publicly denigrates the Government of the Republic of Turkey, the judicial institutions of the State, the military or security organizations shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years.
In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third.
Expressions of thought intended to criticize shall not constitute a crime.

yes you have your answer...

That the Turkish government is scared of freedom of speech.

Article 301 is just a exemple of numerous other similar laws in many European law books. In French, German, Swiss etc. laws theres too many similar or same laws...

Name and list one.

Originally Posted by big k

on the other hand Mr. Hrant Dink was a relative to one of my Armenian friend named Nubar. we are sharing the same net house, playing and enjoying the same things...we are like brothers, calling eachother "bro"

as for 100 years somebody trying to plant seeds of hatred between us but no way...

I have and grew up with African-American cousins, therefore slavery never existed.

**chankya** · 21 May 07, 00:56

Originally Posted by JAD_333

Years ago I read somewhere that all wars are based on economics, and refused to believe it. At that time, I believed in all the glorious rationales. But the more I read history the more it made sense.

Can't say Eisenhower didn't warn us against the military-industrial-congressional complex.

I've been watching this really interesting movie/documentary called "Why we fight".

**Big K** · 21 May 07, 09:41

KB,

in the same 301 th article theres also saying that

4. Eleştiri amacıyla yapılan düşünce açıklamaları suç oluşturmaz.

means=

INTELLECTUAL COMMENTS IN THE NAME OF CRITICISM ARE NOT TAKEN AS A CRIME

stop demagoging, stop manipulating people with your false or defective "facts!!!"

**snc128** · 21 May 07, 12:21

[QUOTE=JAD_333;375364]

We all know this to be true, but you cannot escape it by refusing to be religious. If there were no religion, war would be justified somehow.

Years ago I read somewhere that all wars are based on economics, and refused to believe it. At that time, I believed in all the glorious rationales. But the more I read history the more it made sense.

For example, anyway you cut it the Iraq war today is about oil. It's about security too, but only to counter terrorists attacks by organizations wanting to control Middle East oil.

Many believe that Bin Laden's reason for attacking the US is religiously motivated. But he says something else in his manifesto, which is laced with references to control of natural resources, righting territorial disputes, and forming new political structures.

We've all heard it said that he uses religion as a way of gaining supporters. It seems such a foregone conclusion that we don't think to ask why.

The simple reason is that the Muslim masses in the Middle East are politically retarded relative to the Western masses. Except for in a few Muslim countries, they haven't been free to protest openly, to develop political parties or form loyal oppositions. Their one unifying commonality is Islam. This makes them the ideal target for political appeals based on Islam, as well Bin Laden and his ilk know.

Modern Western political parties would be laughed at today if they called for war on religious grounds. We passed that stage long ago, notwithstanding the influence of the religious right.

Thus, one would think that a good weapon to counter Bin Laden would be education of the masses. It would, but what western country would do it?
It would mean exposing the political inequities practiced by the Saudis, the Egyptians and other of our Mid-east friends, with perhaps the exception of Turkey where dissent is tolerated.

In short, don't blame religion for wars. Blame politicians.

accuse those who worship worldly objectives and power.
i m asking myself when that education attack will really start.
it is obvious that it will never be started by external powers.because governing ignorant tribes is much more difficult than governing cooperating masses.
mideast ,to be more precise,true Islamic ppl have to create his own dynamics and innovative life style as soon as possible if they want to survive.

**snc128** · 21 May 07, 12:23

Intellectual Comments In The Name Of Criticism Are Not Taken As A Crime,
BK stop going off topic.Turkiye's 301 has nothing to do with Islam

**Kansas Bear** · 21 May 07, 14:11

Originally Posted by snc128

Intellectual Comments In The Name Of Criticism Are Not Taken As A Crime,
BK stop going off topic.Turkiye's 301 has nothing to do with Islam

big k's post started it, which has NOTHING to do with Islam

Originally Posted by Big K

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/his...tml#post375330

Guess you missed that part.

**Commando** · 21 May 07, 14:16

We should recognize those moderate muslims who live with us peacefully. These moderates are a majority. Our brothers. Christian, Islamic, Hindhu, we are all brothers and most important, we all form humanity.

**Ray** · 21 May 07, 16:57

The political paradigm of Turkey is possibly the ideal for a country with Moslem majority.

It is the way it should be in ALL countries where there is Moslem majority.

It is of late, with the ascendancy of the Islamic Party in Turkey, that religion is getting mixed with politics. This is unfortunate since Turkey was an example of a Moslem country that based its existence in the international order on secularism, where religion did not play a part in the governance.

Turkey still continues to be secular, notwithstanding the emotive Islamic propaganda that the world is against Islam.

Turkey should not be pushed into the radical Islamic fold by driving it into a corner.

**Big K** · 22 May 07, 10:48

Originally Posted by snc128

Intellectual Comments In The Name Of Criticism Are Not Taken As A Crime,
BK stop going off topic.Turkiye's 301 has nothing to do with Islam

Originally Posted by Kansas Bear

big k's post started it, which has NOTHING to do with Islam

here i prove something with facts which you like...but i am not sure that you'll like it...
Kansas Bear you are a LIAR!!!

Originally Posted by Kansas Bear

Like Article/Law 301?

heres the first quote that KB mentioned about article 301..

Originally Posted by Kansas Bear

Who profits from Article 301?
Article 301 states the following.

A person who publicly denigrates Turkishness, the Republic or the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and three years.
A person who publicly denigrates the Government of the Republic of Turkey, the judicial institutions of the State, the military or security organizations shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years.
In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third.
Expressions of thought intended to criticize shall not constitute a crime.

That the Turkish government is scared of freedom of speech.

Name and list one.

the continuing by KB for article 301...

and i 've answered it....

hes a liar and a demagog...

**Parihaka** · 22 May 07, 11:37

This is the second and final time that I will ask you gentlemen to respond to the topic rather offer up personal abuse.

**Big K** · 22 May 07, 11:49

Originally Posted by Parihaka

This is the second and final time that I will ask you gentlemen to respond to the topic rather offer up personal abuse.

but he's lied?

**Parihaka** · 22 May 07, 13:30

Big K, 24 hour time out.

Thread: My Opinion of Islam

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Similar Threads

Islam: Religion or political ideology?

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions