JAD_333

[quote]We all know this to be true, but you cannot escape it by refusing to be religious. If there were no religion, war would be justified somehow.

Years ago I read somewhere that all wars are based on economics, and refused to believe it. At that time, I believed in all the glorious rationales. But the more I read history the more it made sense.

For example, anyway you cut it the Iraq war today is about oil. It's about security too, but only to counter terrorists attacks by organizations wanting to control Middle East oil.

Many believe that Bin Laden's reason for attacking the US is religiously motivated. But he says something else in his manifesto, which is laced with references to control of natural resources, righting territorial disputes, and forming new political structures.

We've all heard it said that he uses religion as a way of gaining supporters. It seems such a foregone conclusion that we don't think to ask why.

The simple reason is that the Muslim masses in the Middle East are politically retarded relative to the Western masses. Except for in a few Muslim countries, they haven't been free to protest openly, to develop political parties or form loyal oppositions. Their one unifying commonality is Islam. This makes them the ideal target for political appeals based on Islam, as well Bin Laden and his ilk know.

Modern Western political parties would be laughed at today if they called for war on religious grounds. We passed that stage long ago, notwithstanding the influence of the religious right.

Thus, one would think that a good weapon to counter Bin Laden would be education of the masses. It would, but what western country would do it?
It would mean exposing the political inequities practiced by the Saudis, the Egyptians and other of our Mid-east friends, with perhaps the exception of Turkey where dissent is tolerated.

In short, don't blame religion for wars. Blame politicians.

Kansas Bear

Who profits from Article 301?
Article 301 states the following.

A person who publicly denigrates Turkishness, the Republic or the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and three years.
A person who publicly denigrates the Government of the Republic of Turkey, the judicial institutions of the State, the military or security organizations shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years.
In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third.
Expressions of thought intended to criticize shall not constitute a crime.


That the Turkish government is scared of freedom of speech.




Name and list one.

I have and grew up with African-American cousins, therefore slavery never existed.

chankya

Can't say Eisenhower didn't warn us against the military-industrial-congressional complex.

I've been watching this really interesting movie/documentary called "Why we fight".

__________________
"Of all the manifestations of power, restraint impresses men the most." - Thucydides

Big K

KB,

in the same 301 th article theres also saying that

4. Eleştiri amacıyla yapılan düşünce açıklamaları suç oluşturmaz.

means=

INTELLECTUAL COMMENTS IN THE NAME OF CRITICISM ARE NOT TAKEN AS A CRIME

stop demagoging, stop manipulating people with your false or defective "facts!!!"

__________________
When i say, there will be no effect but i am not willing to remain silent.
-Fuzuli

snc128

[quote=JAD_333;375364]accuse those who worship worldly objectives and power.
i m asking myself when that education attack will really start.
it is obvious that it will never be started by external powers.because governing ignorant tribes is much more difficult than governing cooperating masses.
mideast ,to be more precise,true Islamic ppl have to create his own dynamics and innovative life style as soon as possible if they want to survive.

__________________
action speaks louder than words

snc128

Intellectual Comments In The Name Of Criticism Are Not Taken As A Crime,
BK stop going off topic.Turkiye's 301 has nothing to do with Islam

Kansas Bear

big k's post started it, which has NOTHING to do with Islam


Guess you missed that part.

Commando

We should recognize those moderate muslims who live with us peacefully. These moderates are a majority. Our brothers. Christian, Islamic, Hindhu, we are all brothers and most important, we all form humanity.

Ray

The political paradigm of Turkey is possibly the ideal for a country with Moslem majority.

It is the way it should be in ALL countries where there is Moslem majority.

It is of late, with the ascendancy of the Islamic Party in Turkey, that religion is getting mixed with politics. This is unfortunate since Turkey was an example of a Moslem country that based its existence in the international order on secularism, where religion did not play a part in the governance.

Turkey still continues to be secular, notwithstanding the emotive Islamic propaganda that the world is against Islam.

Turkey should not be pushed into the radical Islamic fold by driving it into a corner.

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Big K

here i prove something with facts which you like...but i am not sure that you'll like it...
Kansas Bear you are a LIAR!!!

heres the first quote that KB mentioned about article 301..

the continuing by KB for article 301...

and i 've answered it....

hes a liar and a demagog...

Parihaka

This is the second and final time that I will ask you gentlemen to respond to the topic rather offer up personal abuse.

__________________
In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.
Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz

Big K

but he's lied?

Parihaka

Big K, 24 hour time out.

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