Thread: Ultimate Evil- 10 million murdered

Ughhh, lets get down from the moral highground here. Though we all agree that selective abortion is a social evil, its funny to see people pointing to Indian "culture" for this social evil.

Lets look at China,

Sex-selective infanticide appears to have been practiced at various times in Chinese history such as the Qing dynasty due to population pressures. Sex-selective infanticide appears to occur infrequently in China today. However, there is a strong imbalance in sex ratios in China as well as South Korea, India, and Taiwan, probably the result of sex-selective abortion. In addition, there does appear to be considerable sex-selective abandonment of infants to circumvent China's one child policy.

Son preference is common in China: Chinese tradition says that most parents want their first child to be born a male. Son preference is also due to deeply rooted Confucian traditions, and Chinese parents desire sons in order to make familial propagation, security for the elderly, labor provision, and performance of ancestral rites. China calls the son preference situation the "missing girl" problem.

Parents may wish for a male child because in many cultures only a male will carry on the family name (traditionally when a bride gets married she effectively becomes a member of the groom's family), because they believe that a male is needed for work, or because they wish a male to earn an income needed to support the parents in their old age.

In response to sex-selective abortions, Mainland China has made it illegal for a physician to reveal the sex of a fetus, but female infanticide lingers in China as a result of this law. A non-abortive alternative is sex-selective abandonment, which is also prevalent in China. Most children (about 95 percent of them) in Chinese orphanages are able-bodied girls with living biological parents. These infants were abandoned by their biological parents and sent to orphanages for adoption just because they are female. Many abandoned Chinese girls have been adopted by the westerners and brought to the United States or Canada, while some others have been adopted domestically by childless Chinese couples.

It is estimated that by 2020 there could be more than 35 million young 'surplus males' in China, 25 million in India, and 4 million in Pakistan, all of whom will be unable to find girlfriends or wives. In both China and India there are already growing rates of violent crime, sexual exploitation, and industrial accident fatalities which many attribute to large numbers of single men. The hypothesis is that single men do not have to return home every night to a wife and child, and thus may have less to lose when they engage in irresponsible behavior.Due to the shortage of Chinese women, Chinese men have also opted to marry North Korean and Vietnamese women. Some experts have argued that there is a slim but significant risk of political instability in these countries in the near future.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_selective_abortion

Korean doctors also use ultrasound to detect gender. Under national law they should be jailed, but since the law was made in the 1980s, only about 30 doctors have lost their licenses. Meanwhile experts estimate that 30,000 Korean female fetuses are aborted annually.

As a result, the ratio of infant boys to girls is far off balance. Worldwide, 106 boys are born for every 100 girls—but in Korea, it's 110 to 100. Among fourth-born children, it's an astonishing 168 to 100. In China, statistics are unreliable—some village lists leave out girls entirely—but the last census logged 119 boys per 100 girls, and most Chinese infants up for adoption are female. In India, the ratio is closer to normal but would likely be higher if more rural families had access to ultrasound. In wealthy Haryana, where clinics flourish, there are 114 boys for every 100 girls.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3990133/

She is one of perhaps 15 million female babies who have gone missing from China's demographics since the one child per family policy was introduced in 1979. Another tiny bag of bones in what some sinologists claim is the 20th century's hidden holocaust.

http://morpheus.cc/myworld/issues/meiming.html

Pakistan is one of the few countries in the world where population gender statistics are skewed in favour of men, demographers say. Out of a population of 149 million people, there are already 105 men for every 100 women, according to the latest demographic profiles.

The reasons for this go beyond the issue of pre-natal gender selection. As many doctors will testify, many more girls than boys die under the age of five, since they are often fed less well than their male counterparts and are less likely to receive prompt medical care when ill.

“It is generally true, parents bring in sick boys far more often than sick girls. A girl’s health and physical well-being is placed at a far lower value compared to that of a boy child,” said Dr Ahad Abbas speaking to IRIN. He has been posted for two years to a tiny rural health centre near Taxila.

Parents do not deny this bias. “For each of my four daughters, I will need to pay out a huge sum when they wed, as dowry and as expenses. My two sons will however add to the household earning,” said Rafiuddin, a father of six children who lives in the rural area of Narang Mandi, some 100 km from Lahore. “I love my daughters, but they are some harsh economic realities that poor people like us must face.”

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-6-2005_pg7_20

The last time I checked China, South Korea, Taiwan, Pakistan are not following Indian culture, per se.

Also unlike China, where the govt forced one child policy, which killed a lot more girls, selective abortion happen in rural pockets in certain states. So generalizing it as Indian culture would be really absurd.
http://www.censusindia.net/fsex.html

This is what happens when there is female foeticide.

Report from Bosaton Globe.

Open secrets
In Pakistan, sex between men is strictly forbidden by law and religion. But even in the most conservative regions, it's also embedded in the society.

By Miranda Kennedy | July 11, 2004

LAHORE -- The first time Aziz, a lean, dark-haired 20-year-old in this bustling cultural capital, had sex with a man, he was a pretty, illiterate boy of 16. A family friend took him to his house, put on a Pakistani-made soft-porn video, and raped him. Now, says Aziz (who gives only his first name), he is "addicted" to sex with men, so he hangs around Lahore's red-light districts, getting paid a few rupees for sex. At night, he goes home to his parents and prays to Allah to forgive him.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, homosexuality is not only illegal, it is a crime punishable by whipping, imprisonment, or even death. But across all classes and social groups, men have sex with men. In villages throughout the country, young boys are often forcibly "taken" by older men, starting a cycle of abuse and revenge that social activists and observers say is the common pattern of homosexual sex in Pakistan. Often these boys move to the cities and become prostitutes. Most people know it happens -- from the police to the wives of the men involved.

In some areas, homosexual sex is even tacitly accepted -- though still officially illegal -- as long as it doesn't threaten traditional marriage. In the Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP), which shares many tribal and cultural links with neighboring Afghanistan, the ethnic Pashtun men who dominate the region are renowned for taking young boys as lovers. No one has been executed for sodomy in Pakistan's recent history, but across the border in Afghanistan, the Taliban (who are also overwhelmingly Pashtun) executed three men for sodomy in 1998 by bulldozing a brick wall over them, burying two of them alive. (The third survived, which meant, according to Taliban law, that he was innocent, so he was taken to a hospital for treatment.)

Among Pakistan's urban elite, there is a growing community of men who identify as gay, some of whom even come out to their friends. Men meet on Internet bulletin boards, or at private pool parties with lots of rented boys and heavy security. But they are a tiny, terrified minority, living in cities such as Lahore, Karachi, or Islamabad, where the cultural elite has carved out a niche for itself. In a country where alcohol is forbidden except to Christians, dancing is banned, and the Koran guides many aspects of criminal law, such men rarely step outside of their protected world. (Because women in Pakistan inhabit, for the most part, a strictly private realm, it is difficult to say with any certainty how common lesbian relationships may be.)

Homosexuals in Pakistan walk a fine line between harsh legal and cultural prohibition and some form of unspoken social acceptance. "Islamic tradition frowns on but acknowledges male-male sex, and this plays a role in permitting clandestine sex so long as it is not allowed to interfere with family life, which is of paramount importance," the San Francisco-based sociologist Stephen O. Murray writes in "Sociolegal Control of Homosexuality: A Multi-Nation Comparison," a collection of scholarly essays published in 1997. Further complicating matters, the most common form of male homosexuality in Pakistan, according to Murray, is pederasty, where an older man entices or coerces (sometimes forcibly) a younger boy into sex.

Among the many obstacles facing men who have sex with men in Pakistan is this close association, in the eyes of many Pakistanis, between homosexuality and exploitation. But they face their own psychological barriers as well. Of the dozens of men interviewed for this article, almost none who admitted to having homosexual sex identified themselves as "gay." (All would give only their first names, which could not be verified, or would speak only anonymously.) Most do not even believe that homosexuality should be legal.


Aziz says he now enjoys sex with other men, but he believes that's only because he isn't able to have sex with women, who are largely inaccessible -- even in red-light districts, where there are many more men than women for rent. And like most Pakistani men who have homosexual sex, Aziz believes it is wrong. "The Verses of the Koran do not allow it," he says. "That's the only thing that matters."

According to the Koran, when the prophet Lot saw that his people had been engaged in sodomy and debauchery, he said, "Come ye to men, instead of women, lustfully? Ye are indeed a people given to excess." When they refused to repent their sins, Allah destroyed them: "And we rained a rain upon them: and see what was the end of the wicked!"

The lines don't seem to leave much room for interpretation. But Faisal Alam, founder of the Al-Fatiha Foundation, a Washington-based organization for gay and lesbian Muslims, argues that Lot's people were killed not because they had homosexual sex, but because they were forcing sex on each other. That interpretation is unlikely to hold much weight with Pakistan's religious leaders. The matter is not open for debate here -- not among mullahs, academics, or even activists.

Like many Pakistani men who have sex with men, Aziz believes he is plagued by a "satan," or demon, that makes him desire men. Veteran human rights lawyer Hina Jilani, who lives in Lahore and specializes in women's rights cases, says the inconsistent application of Sharia (Islamic law) and Pakistani criminal law has blurred the line between abuse and gay sex, and the emphasis on Islamic values has imbued the very word "homosexuality" with a moral color.

"Here we have two totally different issues: exploited boys and sex workers versus consensual sex," Jilani says. "But the majority of people will think of them as the same. Even people like myself who do understand this issue haven't been able to take it up, except in the context of violence against people on basis of sex orientation."Jilani says there are innumerable cases of young boys -- some sex workers, some not -- charged under Pakistan's sodomy law, even if they have been enticed into sex.

Jilani, who has defended dozens of children accused under the law, says they spend long years in jail awaiting trial; their families are stigmatized and often forced to disown them. In most parts of Pakistan, it's easier to lure a boy into sex than it is to catch a glimpse of a woman's legs. Sometimes it doesn't take more than the promise of a new cricket bat.


A 16-year-old who identifies himself only as Khurram knows all about that. Born in Dina, a small city in central Pakistan, his father died when he was young, and by the time he was 8 he was sent out to support his family. He says his employer sexually assaulted him, and he eventually realized that if he let it happen, he would make more money than he would serving chai. So he moved to the big city. Now he lives beside the bus stand in Rawalpindi, sleeping during the day and emerging at dusk to wait for work. For less than a dollar, he'll let a man have sex with him on a string bed behind a tobacco shop. "I don't like what I do," he says sorrowfully. "I am doing it so my sister can go to school."

There are no discernible red-light districts in the Northwest Frontier Province. In Peshawar, the provincial capital, women billow through the dusty streets in white "shuttlecock" burkas, named for the netted veil over the face. Many of the city's movie theaters have been shut down, and playing music in local buses is banned.

Ruled by an alliance of six Islamic parties who recently declared Sharia to be supreme over Pakistani national law, the NWFP is one of the most religiously conservative regions of Pakistan. This is the province that helped give rise to the Taliban, and where Al Qaeda leaders -- including Osama bin Laden -- continue to seek refuge, according to the Pakistani government.

Yet this is also the region of Pakistan where homosexuality is most tolerated -- however quietly. Among the Pashtun majority, having a young, attractive boyfriend is a symbol of prestige and wealth for affluent middle-aged men. Indeed, Pashtun men often keep a young boy in their hujra, the male room of the house that the wife rarely enters. The practice is so common that there are various slang terms for the boyfriends in different regional languages: larke (boy), warkai, alec.

According to many people interviewed in Peshawar, there's a strict code of behavior in these relationships. The boy is always the passive partner in sex and has often been coerced into the relationship; he is given food and clothes by his partner, and is in may cases forbidden to leave the relationship or marry. (In theory, the boys could marry when they're grown, but they are generally considered damaged, and end up wandering the streets as outcasts

Sayed Mudassir Shah, a human rights activist based in Peshawar, believes this goes on in part because of the extreme austerity of the traditional culture. Even after marriage, women are kept separate from men (except at night), and a strict interpretation of Islam discourages sports, music, and TV. Indeed, says Sayed, the practice is deeply embedded in the local culture. "It is so common to take boy lovers, that it is part of our Pashtun folklore," Sayed says. "One story tells of a wife crying to her husband that he has made her jealous, because he is spending so much time in the hujra with his boyfriend. This is folklore, but it is similar in life."


Sex between men is also commonplace in Pakistan's gender-segregated madrassas, or religious schools, where students and mullahs will go for months without setting eyes on a woman. Here, more than anywhere else in Pakistan, the situation resembles that found among prison inmates, where sex is mostly about availability and dominance rather than preference. In many cases, families take their sons to madrassas because they cannot afford to raise them themselves. A researcher with the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan (who asked that her name not be used) cited a saying such parents have for the teachers when they bring them their sons: "His flesh is yours, but his bones are ours."

A spirited, self-confident young man of 25 who lives in Islamabad, the nation's capital, and identifies himself only as Sajat, tells me that he first had sex with a man at a religious school in a central Pakistani village. But unlike most madrassa students and the boys in the red-light districts, Sajat's first sexual encounter with a man was by choice. Now a well-paid government servant in Islamabad, he hoots with laughter when he describes his preference for young, "hot-blooded, fighting soldier men," and happily recounts his regular trawls for boys through Islamabad's parks.

But Sajat's irreverent, openly gay self abruptly disappears when marriage comes up. He admits that he is engaged to a match of his parents' choosing, and will marry in the next two years. "Nature has made females for males, so after I get married, I will stop having sex with men," he intones, as though dutifully.

Indeed, gay men in Pakistan usually succumb to family pressure to marry, and those who are brave or rich enough to refuse to marry live under constant threat. Human rights workers say that the dearth of Pakistani gay-rights or community groups heightens the isolation and fear of those who identify -- and live -- as homosexuals. There are groups working against the spread of AIDS in Pakistan, but their work is often impeded by the cultural disapproval of homosexual sex.

Haji Muhammad Hanif, the general secretary of the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan, says that when he talks to male sex workers in the red-light districts of Lahore, he first asks them, "Do you know that gay sex is a heinous crime?" According to Pakistan's official figures, there were only some 2,000 cases of AIDS in Pakistan as of June 2003, but data collection is limited by social taboos. Estimates by the World Health Organization and UNAIDS put the 2002 figure at 78,000.

One bright spot for gay men in Pakistan is the Internet. There are several online bulletin boards that function as city-specific dating sites for gay men. The men who advertise on the sites are generally blunt about what they want: "Masculine Top looking for hot sex in Islamabad," runs a typical listing. One site, Pakistan Gays, tries to be more of a resource, with articles about homosexuality, health advice, and an anonymous question-answer service. There's even an audio version of sections of the Koran available for download, which shows the extent to which gay men in Pakistan hold onto their Muslim identity.

Pakistan Gays was founded two years ago by a middle-class accounting student in Lahore who spoke with me only on the condition of anonymity. He runs the site from Internet cafes so his family won't find out. As of June, the site had signed up 569 Pakistani members. Of those who registered, 302 identified themselves as gay, 241 as bisexual, and the rest as "transgender."

The website's founder is 20, and identifies as gay. He says he is in love with an Indian man he met over the Internet, but he harbors no hope of living in a gay relationship in either Pakistan or India, where homosexuality is also illegal and tolerance of gays is not much greater than in Pakistan. His plan is to refuse his parents' demands that he marry, and emigrate to the West with his Indian lover.

"It is difficult to be homosexual in Pakistan," he says, "because you always fear that if the people around you knew about your sexuality, what bad feelings they would have about you. We think that we are born this way, but still we feel we are doing wrong."

Miranda Kennedy is a journalist based in New Delhi. She reports frequently for National Public Radio from across South Asia.
© Copyright 2004 Globe Newspaper Company.
Open secrets

July 11, 2004

As far as I see it Pakistan doesn't have a leg to stand on when criticising India in practically any area. One is a military dictatorship, the other the world's most populous parliamentary democracy. Give me a break.

I don't know how many are here from UK, but here's something interesting.

You all will be surprised to know that the British High Commission in Pakistan has a special snatch squad, along with a special help line in the UK.

It's primary purpose is to snatch British Pakistani girls taken forcibily to Pakistan who are about to be married off. Many of them never return alive because of their resistance which then compels some family members to take extreme actions as they have been dishonoured.

Plat always look into your own collar before throwing dirt around.

India's 'bride buying' country
By Renu Agal
BBC News, Mewat, Haryana

Anwari was sold for $220 to a man in Haryana
Anwari Khatoon came visiting a relative in the northern Indian state of Haryana eight months ago, but ended up getting married against her will to a local man with six children from a previous marriage.
A man from her village in eastern Jharkhand state had accompanied the 22-year-old woman on her journey to Haryana.

When she arrived in the village, Anwari found the man and her relative pressuring her to marry the man with six children, a middle-aged truck driver.

Her new husband paid 10,000 rupees ($220) to the man who brought her to the village.

"Can a young, single girl get married to a father of six willingly?" asks Anwari.

"It is all fate. What has happened has happened. What can I do? My parents didn't even get any money from this deal."

Anwari is among the several thousand young women from all over India who are literally sold-off to men in Haryana, a state notorious for its low ratio of girls to boys.

The going rate for buying a girl in the state is anything between 4,000 and 30,000 rupees ($88 to $660).

A cultural preference for sons over daughters has skewed India's sex ratio in places like Haryana.

As a result of female foeticide, there are about 861 women for every 1,000 men in Haryana, according to the last census. The national average is 927 women to 1,000 men.

Since there aren't enough local women to marry, Haryana's men pay touts to bring women for them to marry and to work on their farms.

Social activists reckon most of these women end up being used as sex slaves and then resold to other men in what looks like a flourishing market in trafficking of women.

The head of Asawati village told us about a girl called Ajmeri who arrived last month from the state of West Bengal in eastern India. She told the village head that "some people had come to see me and offered 10,000 rupees ($220)".

We went to look for Ajmeri. But when we reached her home she wasn't there. Her neighbours told us that she "may have been taken away by somebody" to another village.

These young women who are sold off as brides against their will are known in Haryana as 'paros'.

According to one estimate, there are almost 45,000 paros here from the dirt-poor, eastern tribal state of Jharkhand alone.

Touts pay their poor parents anything between 500 to 1,000 rupees (about $11 to $22) to take the daughter.

Social activists say Haryana exemplifies the vicious cycle of exploitation of women and represents a society which does not respect women.

Haryana minister Randeep Singh Surjewala says the government is aware of the problem.

"Whenever we get complaints we take action. We are also trying to educate people socially and address the sex ratio problem," he says.

Last month a doctor and his assistant in Haryana were sentenced to two years in jail for revealing the sex of a female foetus and then agreeing to abort it. It was the first time offenders had been sent to jail for this offence.

"Every village has five to six girls who have been brought from outside," says Rishikant who works with Shakti Vahini.

Most of the rescued women were hired as farm workers by local men and were being sexually abused, Rishikant says.

In one case a man stands accused of beheading his paros wife because she refused to sleep with his brothers.

"There is a lack of political will, so no government is taking any steps to curb this problem," says Sanjay Mishra, who runs a voluntary group in Jharkhand associated with rescuing these women.

Meanwhile, Haryana's infamous market in women continues to flourish.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4862434.stm