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Thread: Indian Atrocities in Held Kashmir

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    Actus Reus Senior Contributor sparten's Avatar
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    Indian Atrocities in Held Kashmir

    Lets see what the Indian Army is up to

    According to a report by Human Rights Watch 2001 "Rape is used by the Indian security forces to attack Kashmiri women suspected of sympathizing with Freedom Fighters." Through rape, the security forces are aiming to punish and humiliate the entire community."
    The Amnesty International report 2004 maintained that specific targeting of Muslim women in India remains unacknowledged by state government and criminal justice system. Witnesses report that a large number of women are beaten, stripped naked, gang raped and stabbed. Amnesty International remained disturbed as civilians in 2004 continued to be a target of gross human rights violations in Jammu and Kashmir and scores of allegations of human rights violations were made against security forces, paramilitary forces. Extra Judicial killings, rapes, custodial killings, kidnappings, burning of houses by Indian security forces within Kashmir remains a common practice.
    http://www.kashmirwatch.com/kwomen.htm


    Since the Indian government crackdown against militants in the disputed territory of Kashmir began in earnest in January 1990, both security forces and armed militants have used rape as a weapon: to punish, intimidate, coerce, humiliate and degrade.110 Rape by Indian security forces most often occurs during crackdowns, cordon-and-search operations during which men are held for identification in parks or schoolyards while security forces search their homes. In these situations, the security forces frequently engage in collective punishment against the civilian population by assaulting residents and burning their homes. Rape is used as a means of targeting women whom the security forces accuse of being militant sympathizers; in raping them, the security forces are attempting to punish and humiliate the entire community.111 Rape has also occurred frequently during reprisal attacks on civilians following militant ambushes. In many of these attacks, the selection of victims is seemingly arbitrary and the women, like other civilians assaulted or killed, aretargeted simply because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.


    Lets see what they have been doing since 1990
    "The worst outrages by the CRPF (Central Reserve Police Force) have been frequent gang rapes of all women in Muslim villages, followed by the execution of the men".
    (Eric Margolis, The Ottawa Citizen, December 8, 1991)

    "Subjugated, humiliated, tortured and killed by the 650,000-strong Indian army, the people of Kashmir have been living through sheer hell for more than a year, the result of an increasingly brutal campaign of state repression. India hides behind its carefully-crafted image of "non-violence" and presents itself in international forums as a model of democracy and Pluralism. Yet, it is unable to stand up the scrutiny of even its admirers. All journalists, especially television crews, were expelled from the Valley. With no intrusive cameras to record the brutalities of the Indian forces, the world has been kept largely in the dark." (The Toronto Star, January 25, 1991)

    "Young girls were now being raped systematically by entire (Indian) army units rather than by a single soldier as before. Girls are taken to soldier's camps and held naked in their tents for days on end. Many never return home....Women are strung up naked from trees and their breast lacerated with knives, as the (Indian) soldiers tell them that their breast will never give milk again to a newborn militant. Women are raped in front of their husbands and children, or paraded naked through villages and beaten on the breasts."


    (The Independent, September 18, 1990)


    So its either an organized action, or dicipline is non-existant.


    Well they have had their successes
    Heres a terrorist they killed

    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/azadchild.htm

    Another great victory for India!!!!!!! Jai Hind!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/img9828.htm

    Well we are overpopulated anyway

    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs...dmankilled.htm

    Lets knock um off by the dozen
    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/custod.htm

    So what many of you might say. Only muslims. Well here some on what they are doing to Sikhs

    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/

    A member of US House of Representatives Adolfus Towns has said an independent report held the Indian government responsible for massacre of 35 Sikhs in Chattisinghpura near Srinagar in Occupied Kashmir. Speaking to the House of Representatives in Washington, the US Congressman said the gruesome incident took place when US President Bill Clinton was on an official visit to India.
    And What happens to Christians

    http://images.google.com.pk/imgres?i...3Doff%26sa%3DG

    HON. JOHN T. DOOLITTLE
    in the House of Representatives
    TUESDAY, MARCH 2, 1999
    Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. Speaker, James Madison, the primary author of the U.S. Constitution, warned about `the tyranny of the majority.' The modern state of India is an example of what Madison warned us about. Between Christmas and New Year, several Christian churches, prayer halls, and missionary schools were attacked by extremist Hindu mobs affiliated with the parent organization of India's ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP).

    The Washington Post reported on January 1 that ten such attacks occurred the week between Christmas and New Year's Day. Six people were injured in one of these attacks. The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), or World Hindu Council, appears to be responsible for the attacks. The BJP is the political wing of the VHP.
    An Identity Parade
    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/ka00008.html
    Last edited by sparten; 26 Dec 05, at 12:33.
    "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

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    Come on sparten it is not this bad as made out to be.

    Cheers!...on the rocks!!

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    Actus Reus Senior Contributor sparten's Avatar
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    Maybe not sir. Than maybe its worse. I personally lean to the latter. From what I have read. Than again I am open to all ideas.

    A disclaimer; before all the "patriotic" Indians jump on me, I am in no way implying that Brig Ray, or Capt Lemontree are rapist. Remembering the trouble Asim got into.
    "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

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    Ray
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    A neat one!

    Haven't heard any protest so far.

    I would like you to know that in Kolkata we celebrate Christmas the best in India and it is a great scene!

    If indeed what you write is correct, it is rather silly of anyone to be so stupid. There is much against the Moslems of India, mostly the illiterate ones and there is no dearth of them, who do not identify with India as the want to maintain a separate identity, but as far as the Christians go, they are as Indian as anyone claiming to be an Indian.

    Most of the Indians have studied in Convents or missionary schools even in the village, quite a few are beneficiaries of Christian clinic, hospitals and helplines. Therefore, there is no real bad blood amongst the Christian and others.

    The problem is with the evangelists of either community. Moslems are also not far behind in their conversion and they are flush with Saudi funds.

    Unless Hinduism is totally beyond this caste business and vote bank politics keeps it alive, these silly happenings, if true, will happen.

    Notwithstanding, there is a Ray of hope wherein the caste and religion politics took a severe beating in the Bihar election when Laloo tried to use the same for the umpteenth time and was kicked out of office!

    While these odd happenings in India bring joy to some from the neighbouring country, they are hardly of the proportion that one observes in the intra religion killings and subnationalism that one sees in the neighbouring country.

    I do not appreciate these happenings that sometimes occur in India, but I take solace that they are not of the same wild runaway "wild" nature observed in the neighbouring country!

    Amensty International is an interesting organisation that is one sided anyway! I assure you that the Indian Army is too busy to rape around. Acutally, Pakistan is raping Kashmir!

    Merry Christmas!



    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparten
    Lets see what the Indian Army is up to
    The references you've brought up does not mention the InA, only security and para-military forces which by definition, falls outside the InA command.
    Chimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparten

    http://www.kashmirwatch.com/kwomen.htm


    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/azadchild.htm

    Another great victory for India!!!!!!! Jai Hind!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/img9828.htm

    Well we are overpopulated anyway

    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs...dmankilled.htm

    Lets knock um off by the dozen
    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/custod.htm

    So what many of you might say. Only muslims. Well here some on what they are doing to Sikhs

    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/

    An Identity Parade
    http://www.holocaustinkashmir.50megs.com/ka00008.html

    You have to incrediably naieve to believe in what these garbage propoganda sites dish out.

    Try posting from standard sources.

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    Actus Reus Senior Contributor sparten's Avatar
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    Try posting from standard sources.
    Toronto Star neutral enough for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray
    While these odd happenings in India bring joy to some from the neighbouring country, they are hardly of the proportion that one observes in the intra religion killings and subnationalism that one sees in the neighbouring country.
    And that is why we have what is it, 6? 7? Insurgencies in India, sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers
    The references you've brought up does not mention the InA, only security and para-military forces which by definition, falls outside the InA command.
    "Young girls were now being raped systematically by entire (Indian) army units...
    (The Independent, September 18, 1990)

    "Subjugated, humiliated, tortured and killed by the 650,000-strong Indian army, the people of Kashmir have been living through sheer hell for more than a year
    (The Toronto Star, January 25, 1991)
    "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

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    Actus Reus Senior Contributor sparten's Avatar
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    The numbers of insurgencies in India

    http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=69249

    More than 44,000 people have died in Kashmir, the only Muslim majority state in mainly Hindu India
    An estimated 50,000 people have also died due to various insurgencies in India's far east.
    These two alone make how many. 94,000. More than the number of Indian dead in WWII. More than the number of US dead in any war except the Civil War or WWII. Equal to the confederate armies total battle deaths in the US Civil War.
    "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparten
    (The Independent, September 18, 1990)

    (The Toronto Star, January 25, 1991)
    Unfortunately, that's clear cut enough for me. It's too generalized without pointing me to understand whether this is policy, lack of discipline, poor journalism or just plain propaganda. There is ABSBOLUTELY no way the entire Indian Army is committing these alleged attrocities. Most would not get the chance.

    I should have seen Eric Margolis. I don't consider him an unbiased, though he is neutral, source. He sees monsters where they're only guppies. He supported the KLA during the Kosovo War.
    Chimo

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparten
    These two alone make how many. 94,000. More than the number of Indian dead in WWII. More than the number of US dead in any war except the Civil War or WWII. Equal to the confederate armies total battle deaths in the US Civil War.
    But, it must be mentioned, less than the 1 million killed and over 3 million East Pakistanis made refugees in the short span from March 1971 to Dec. 1971 by the Pakistani Army. And before you try to use Sarmila Bose' "rebuttal" of these charges, no, that air-brushing does not count.

    As far as authenicity of sources is concerned, Colonel, you will be much amused to read Eric Margolis' account of the Siachen conflict and his (lack of) attention to detail. Not to mention his rather queer fascination with the Pakistani Armymen in general

    A note on the methodology of statistics collection by the "neutral" sources - they include interviews with victims, police records of complaints and stringers. How many are verifiable, how many are agit-prop, I leave to your imagination, gentle reader.

    But while we are comparing numbers, why is it, Sparten, that you did not include the numbers of innocent Kashmiris killed and raped by the "freedom fighters" and the number of people rendered homeless by the very same "freedom fighters"? Didn't Santa Claus put that little statistic in your Christmas stocking?

    The difference is this - any egregious act by the Indian armed forces on the Kashmiris are punished by law and I have heard of officers as high as Colonels being court-martialled. As far as the "freedom fighters" go, well there is only way to prevent them from exercising their "freedom" on Kashmiri women and children (male and female) and that is by hastening their conversion to fertilizer via the business end of an INSAS rifle. Inshallah, let the good IA prevail and perhaps, 10 years hence we can institute a Truth and Reconciliation Comission for the terrorist-scarred populace.

    Have a wonderful New Year, Sparten!

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    Actus Reus Senior Contributor sparten's Avatar
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    Not sure I get you sir?

    Here is some more in depth sources

    http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/kashmir/1996/

    They also mention militant activities.

    Here's an Indian source about what goes on in the North East
    http://www.countercurrents.org/hr-tukdeo241004.htm

    More
    http://www.kashmircentreeu.org/hrights_amnesty.php

    I have some more sources as well sir.

    Now there seems to be no order signed by the PM saying, "kill, loot, torture". However there seems to be as the US State Department report said

    .Government officials often used special antiterrorism legislation to justify the excessive use of force while combating active insurgencies in Jammu and Kashmir and several northeastern states. Security force officials who committed human rights abuses generally enjoyed de facto legal impunity,
    http://www.kashmircentreeu.org/hrights_US.php
    "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

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    Actus Reus Senior Contributor sparten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anoop C
    As far as authenicity of sources is concerned, Colonel, you will be much amused to read Eric Margolis' account of the Siachen conflict and his (lack of) attention to detail. Not to mention his rather queer fascination with the Pakistani Armymen in general
    Well, not saying things like "Pakistan army is so evil", or "Pakistanis have horns dipped in blood of new born babies", does not making him a pro-Pakistan source, contary to what many Indians may think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anoop C
    But, it must be mentioned, less than the 1 million killed and over 3 million East Pakistanis made refugees in the short span from March 1971 to Dec. 1971 by the Pakistani Army.
    Oh come of it, the Hamood ur-Rehman commission report, and others clearly pointed out that the allegations were false.

    And Sarmila Bose' s rebuttal is pretty convincing

    Quote Originally Posted by Anoop C
    Have a wonderful New Year, Sparten!
    A very happy new year to you too Anoop!
    "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparten
    Not sure I get you sir?

    Here is some more in depth sources

    http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/kashmir/1996/
    This is the kind of source that I wanted. To know the details and whether the attrocities were a failure of leadership and/or policy or a deleberate criminal acts. However, the source you gave me only listed one InA action that is questionable and it reads more of as a failure of leadership rather than a deliberate cold blooded criminal act.

    That doesn't mean a hill of beans to the dead. Dead is dead but you can fix one alot better than the other.
    Chimo

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    "Young girls were now being raped systematically by entire (Indian) army units...
    Sparten, please also don't forget that the media wouldn't know the difference between...well anything and anything else.

    Any man in any uniform with any kind of firearm will be referred as being "in the army"

    Any naval vessel that is not an aircraft carrier or submarine will be referred to as a "battleship".

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    Senior Contributor Samudra's Avatar
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    Sparten,

    Are you 'Sparten' in PDF too ?
    The fellow who advocates a nuclear strike on India within five years or something ?

    And Sarmila Bose' s rebuttal is pretty convincing
    Ofcourse it is!

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