I lost my temper and for that I apologize unreservedly.Originally Posted by Julie
But note that he is the one who became personal, instead of discussing issues properly and in a civilized manner.
Post number 112
"Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell
We've had numerous threads about Kashmir ending up like this.
Seems to me that we can't discuss sensitive matters without getting personal.
Its not good for us, certainly not good for the quality of the WAB.
May I suggest we give it a rest and close this thread?
Thanks!
Again India cannot declare the resolution invalid, only the Security Council or UNCIP can.
India does not have to hold a plebicite (thats the UN's job).
Now again you have misread the resolution. Frstly the August 1948 resolution has repeat no force.
The January 1949 settlement has is the August Settlement with a few amendments, and is binding.
As for Part II A 1 it is still binding, yes, but it says only that Pakistan govenment agrees to withraw its troops. A 2 says that the timetable of the withrawel will be set by the Commissioner.
Part 6 refers to all persons, meaning tribesman and or whatever volunteers. It does not refer to armed forces of either country; in legal documents persons are never held to refer to military, they are always refered to as "military personnel" or "forces".
THe tribesmen did withraw, (actually they were already being replaced by regulars, irregular forces cannot sustain such operations for long.)
"Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell
Fine with me.
"Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell
I don't want to stifle free and open debate, so as long as things can stay civilized...?
It's funny to see grown adults get so riled up.
Okay by me...
Haha...yeah.It's funny to see grown adults get so riled up.
There's nothing like an open India-Pakistan debate
Well, for them it's a rather close-to-home and highly incendiary issue.It's funny to see grown adults get so riled up.
On the other hand, this is merely an Internet message board and not a place to a lot of grade school behaviour.
http://www.indianembassy.org/policy/...ir_MEA/UN.html
The last time that the issue of Jammu and Kashmir came before the UN Security Council was in the aftermath of the 1965 India Pakistan war. The perfunctory passing reference to Jammu and Kashmir, with no reference to the resolutions of August 13, 1948 and January 5, 1949 demonstrates that, for the world community, the Kashmir issue was no longer of any consequence and would have been forgotten if it was not for the war forced by Pakistan on India in 1965.
The irrelevance of the 1948 and 1949 resolutions to the contemporary situation was highlighted by the President of the Security Council, Gunnar Jarring in his report to the Council in 1957 when he said ".. The Council, will, furthermore, be aware of the fact that the implementation of international agreements of an ad hoc character, which has not been achieved fairly speedily, may become progressively more difficult because the situation with which they were to cope has tended to change.."
Dr. Frank Graham, the UNCIP’s representative stated in March 1958 ".. the execution of the provisions of the resolution of 1948 might create more serious difficulties than were foreseen at the time the parties agreed to that. Whether the UN representative would be able to reconstitute the status quo which it had obtained ten years ago would seem to be doubtful.....".
I have not mistead the resolution. You have merely added two argumentative instruments viz. Proof by Assertion and Proof by Repetition, to your rhetoric, which may be valid in Pakistani courts, have no validity here whatseover.
Wrong. Part II A(1) of the August 13 1948 Resolution is a precondition for the plebiscite. It does not matter that Pakistan did not sign the Aug 13 1948 Resolution. By agreeing to its term of reference in the Jan 5 1949 Resolution, Pakistan had undertaken to vacate its regular forces as a precondition for plebiscite. It failed to honor its promise. As usual.
Thereby violating Part II A(1) of the 1948 Resolution, which was given force in the 1949 Resolution.
Last edited by Anoop C; 28 Dec 05, at 19:49.
Sparten,
Are you finding the grapes sour?
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
Bah.. and I blame the Indians mostly who get suckered into "debates" like these. Its idiotic really.There's nothing like an open India-Pakistan debate
Oddly our politicians seem to mirror the very same thing.
Vaman,
Think of it this way. For far too long, Indians have taken the attitude that 'Satyameva Jayate' i.e. 'Truth Alone Triumphs'. The unspoken corollary is that even without our defending the Truth, it will prevail by virtue of its own prowess. In this space of Indian silence, the Pakistanis have jumped on the soap-box and announced their version of the "truth" to everybody who will listen. The end result is that the Truth has been hidden from the vast majority of the world.
Well, I'm here to take a stand on the side of the Truth. And I will prevail because I speak the Truth.
My audience is not the Pakistanis. They are irrelevant and becoming more so. My audience is the vast number of non-Pakistanis on this board, some of whom may visit this thread.
I will continue to debunk Sparten's assertions, even using his methodology viz. repetition, if need be. Enough is enough.
And who made you the defender of truth anyway? What are you on a crusade or something to go around and spread "the Truth" everywhere?
You claim your audience is not the Pakistanis, but it seems to me those are exactly the sort of people you would look to engage in a tete-a-tete with. Theres no reason to think any of the non-Pakistnis are interested in threads like these or to think that they have had anything to gain from material posted so far. The only mild participation you are likely to see is to keep the threads going out of control or patronising banter like "muck slinging monkeys" by the likes of Vietnamese-turned-american-conservatives out here.
Get it through your head that no-one else is truly interested in these "debates". If someone happens to be a supporter of Bush or is a proponent of the **** (which seem to be ideologically aligned and possibly constitute atleast 50% of the american populace), he/she is likely to believe what the Bush admin tells them wrt to politics of the region. That would include Mushy being their nice little blue-eyed boy fighting in the frontlines for them. No amount of "truth" or how much anyone rants about it by jumping up and down from any soapbox is likely to change that opinion.
I really dont care about the "truth" either. Nor do I think it matters to most Indians wrt to the K-situation. The country's geographical boundaries are more or less settled and we are largely satisfied with the status-quo. There is nothing in the world thats going to change that. Yet so many people seem to waste so much amount of time in online forums like these that its actually pretty sad. The K-thing might run in all Paksitnis blood and thats no surprise considering all the donors in that blood, but it doesnt run through mine or for that matter most Indians.
So what if someone claims "atrocities" by the "Indian army" or some other such cr@p? Let them go on a posting spree here. Its not going to accomplish much and would most likely be forgotten as spam. They are however successful when people like yourslef get suckered into participating in it. Just look at the size of this thread. Eeeyuck!!
Thats where I draw the analogy with our politicians as well. India would do tremendously well if it were to learn to get on with our business by de-emphasizing the K-issue.
Vaman, my friend, so much angst....All for nought!
Nobody else needs to make me a defender of the truth. I appointed myself to the post. No, I'm not on a crusade (is the use of that word kosher nowadays?) to spread the Truth everywhere, merely on a mission to call Pakistanis on their lies about Kashmir at WAB.
If nobody else is peering into the thread, then there's really no loss, even if there is no gain, right? On the off-chance that somebody does, let them hear the Truth and the Pakistani version. Far better than hearing only the Pakistani version, n'cest pa? Btw, I don't share your general disposition about Americans
I agree that these on-line debates mean a hill of beans when it comes to the issue of Kashmir today. However, that's not what's being discussed, mon cher. It's the history of the issue and the distortion of that history by the Pakistanis that is sought to be countered.
Oh, and do be prepared for this thread to extend another 15 pages (admins permitting) if Sparten decides to continue with his assertions. Life's a b*tch, ain't it?.
Now, as the patriotic Indian you no doubt are, you could let me proceed on this noble endeavor with a little help (or without it). Or you could continue to fire broadsides at me. What'll it be?
Regardless, keep smiling
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