Thread: IMF chief Lagarde: Little sympathy for Greece

Originally Posted by Doktor

Being member of the club or not for the smaller countries in the zone wouldn't matter much. After all, many smaller countries outside Euro have linked their currency to the euro and share the faith like they are in. Only difference is that they wont get bailed out if something goes wrong for them.

Greek issue have roots way before their entrance into the Eurozone.

As for the tax evaders, they are estimated to ~20bn Euro. Would it fix something?

Yes it would but Greece is hardly alone in that category within the EU

http://www-wds.worldbank.org/externa...DF/WPS5356.pdf

For sure there is too much tax evasion in Greece, some are the employment laws and social benefits are also entrenched. owever even if 99% of Greeks payed their taxes the deficit would still increase; one step forward and two steps back.

Get your big boy pants on, pay your damn taxes, end the unaffordable welfare state, retire later -and stop blaming other people.

and Madame L and her cronies are owed money

By a nation full of unproductive people who want the easy life at the expense of other nations and who can't man up to the debts they took out under elected governments.

Greece is not alowed to leave the euro and any election they may have is irrelevant. All this from a currency that was going to create wealth.

Greece lied to get a piece of other peoples money - f*** em

You can try getting blood out of a stone but you are wasting your time.

Better to let the dead beats slither away?

Greece’s exit from euro would close other doors
MENELAOS HADJICOSTIS
The Associated Press
Published Sunday, May. 27, 2012 6:49PM EDT
Last updated Sunday, May. 27, 2012 7:42PM EDT
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ontent=2444761

As Greece creaks under its untenable debt and a shrinking economy, the possibility that it could stop using the euro is becoming increasingly likely. The effects of such a move would be as quick as they would be brutal for ordinary Greeks, who would essentially take a 50-per cent pay cut just as prices soar.

Greece's caretaker Prime Minister Panagiotis Pikrammenos, EU President Jose Manuel Barroso, French President Francois Hollande, Lihuania's President Dalia Grybauskaite (L-R bottom) and Belgium's Prime Minister Elio Di Rupo, Spain's Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy and Sweden's Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt (L-R top) pose for a family photo during an informal EU leaders summit in Brussels May 23, 2012
Video
EU wants Greece to stay in the euro zone
Drachma coins are displayed in this file picture illustration taken in Athens November 11, 2011. A Greek exit from the 17-nation euro zone, or 'Grexit' as some economists have called the once unthinkable eventuality, risks the nation turning into what would be close to a failed state on the edge of the European Union.

No other country has left the 17-country euro zone before and there are no procedures in the EU’s vast rulebook that would push any country out. But one fear is that the Greeks could decide to vote in an anti-austerity government on June 17 that may then decide to renege on the terms of the multibillion-euro bailout that has been keeping the country afloat. Greece could be then forced into a messy exit from the euro bloc. It would then have no choice but to start printing its own currency — the drachma — to pay its way.

According to the Greek think-tank Foundation for Economic and Industrial Research, such a move would hit the Greek people hard — and quickly. The new drachma would lose half or more of its value relative to the euro. This would drive up inflation and sap the purchasing power of the average Greek. At the same time, the country’s economic output would drop, putting more people out of work where one in five is already unemployed. The prices of imported goods would skyrocket, putting them out of reach for many.

The dash for cash

The prospect of Greece leaving the euro and dealing with a devalued drachma has already prompted many people to start withdrawing their euros out of the country’s banks.

Although the latest bank deposit figures aren’t yet available, Greek President Karolos Papoulias last week said about $700-million in deposits was taken out of banks the week after the May 6 election. What’s more, according to central bank data, Greek banks have been hemorrhaging money for almost three years. A victory for anti-bailout lawmakers in the June 17 election would likely trigger an even bigger bank run, said Dimitris Mardas, associate professor of economics at the University of Thessaloniki.

What about homes and savings?

As the new drachma quickly loses its value against other currencies, ordinary Greeks’ savings and pensions will shrink just as rapidly. Analyst Vangelis Agapitos estimates that inflation under the new drachma would quickly reach 40 to 50 per cent to catch up with the fall in the new currency’s value. This would make everything much more expensive. To stop the falling value of the drachma, interest rates would have to be increased to as high as 30 to 40 per cent. People will then be unable to pay off their loans and mortgages and the country’s banks would have to be nationalized to stop them from going under.

Few benefits for business

Some Greeks believe quitting the euro would boost the country’s economy as a devalued drachma would make Greek exports cheaper. But Constantine Michalos, president of the Athens Chamber of Commerce and Industry, says Greece doesn’t have a strong enough export-oriented economy to take advantage of a devalued currency. The country currently imports twice as much as it exports.

The Associated Press

Look troung it's not about whether you pay your taxes or not, except of course that many Greeks are now unemployed, it's about the value of the currency that makes Greek workers less productive than German, Austrian or Belgium workers. Greece was already borrowing too much when they were admitted into the euro but for political reasons this was overlooked. Mrs Lagarde and her pals then proceeded to lend Greece money hand over fist, although it was clear that they could not repay it as it was politicaly unacceptable for Greece to leave the euro and where they are today is the result, not of tax evasion but of trying to make an economic system work for political reasons.

Someone who insists that you borrow their money, knowing full well that you cannot afford to pay it back, is hardly a friend when they then come along and order you to sell everything you own and live on bread alone for years to pay them back. For sure there is some tax evasion; there is every country but this is NOT the cause of the problem. In Greece some "4,152 top tax debtors, who together owe €14.88bn (£11.88bn)" (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...l-to-bite.html) do not account for 130bn euro bailouts. Tax evasion is a drop in the ocean.

Look troung it's not about whether you pay your taxes or not, except of course that many Greeks are now unemployed

Good point - better to set up a society where voters (can't call them tax payers) want the moon but dodge their taxes.

Greek workers less productive than German, Austrian or Belgium worker

They are less productive - because they just ain't all that productive.

Someone who insists that you borrow their money, knowing full well that you cannot afford to pay it back, is hardly a friend when they then come along and order you to sell everything you own and live on bread alone for years to pay them back.

They borrowed the damn money. It's not about being friends, those lazy ingrates owe money they must pay it back.

For sure there is some tax evasion; there is every country but this is NOT the cause of the problem.

Some?

===
Dude you can't even stop trying to find someone else to blame. The Greeks used other people's money to fund their welfare state and now don't want to pay back what they used on lavish spending.

Troung,

I know it doesn't sound too attractive, but our Government actually might hire you just for publicly expressing frustration over Greece/Greeks as our PM.
Considering the crisis and the low prices around here, the pay is not that bad

Back on topic.

It is not only Greece and the "lazy" Greeks (that work most hours in Europe) to be blamed here. Those who gave them the money and who are still giving them are also responsible (not to the extend some Greeks portray them, but still).

The average George voted for the politicians who make his life better then 4 years ago, or promised to make it better then today. Is that a bad thing? Would the voters elsewhere do different?


Oh, and BTW snapper is not a dude, but a dudess

I know it doesn't sound too attractive, but our Government actually might hire you just for publicly expressing frustration over Greece/Greeks as our PM. Considering the crisis and the low prices around here, the pay is not that bad

Throw in a good supply of Albanian hookers and you have yourselves a proper PM.

It is not only Greece and the "lazy" Greeks (that work most hours in Europe) to be blamed here. Those who gave them the money and who are still giving them are also responsible (not to the extend some Greeks portray them, but still).

The banks were stupid to give them a dime - but the Greeks shouldn't slither out of debts they lied to get.

The average George voted for the politicians who make his life better then 4 years ago, or promised to make it better then today. Is that a bad thing? Would the voters elsewhere do different?

No one pays taxes over there - if they thought the gravy train wouldn't ever got turned off then they got what they had coming. At least the US left wants to raise taxes on people, the Greeks wanted a larger welfare state without paying a dime into it of their own money - screw them.

Oh, and BTW snapper is not a dude, but a dudess

I'm throwing out verbal head kicks - can't be bothered with checking under the hood of the victim

Troung,I expect you to be as hardcore when it comes to American welfare kings and queens.Also I expect you NOT to make a difference between various sorts of Americans.

Dude,the US gov. or the French or BRitish enable a welfare based population.The Greek government IS the welfare recipient.You pay taxes,of which some end in the pockets of useless scum,while some actually do some good.Productive Greeks know from the start that nothing good comes from them paying taxes,unless the welfare scheme perpetuating itself can be cosidered good.As for the foreign debt,let's not get too righteous over it.The fact that eurocrats supported Greek,Spanish etc... internal welfare systems has everything to do with their own ignoble political goal.Why on Earth somebody would support being robbed TWICE is beyond me,as well as many of those in said nations that actually are productive.
So fvck both the welfare abusers inside said nations,but fvck also the welfare enablers outside them.

Troung,I expect you to be as hardcore when it comes to American welfare kings and queens.Also I expect you NOT to make a difference between various sorts of Americans.

We ain't Greece - economically, culturally, politically. Not even close. Even our left wing of the congressional democrats are more mature then the clowns running the show over there and at the very least our government can reasonably collect taxes.

Greeks know from the start that nothing good comes from them paying taxes,unless the welfare scheme perpetuating itself can be cosidered good.

So they are dishonest crooks. It's a democracy, so screw them.

Dude,the US gov. or the French or BRitish enable a welfare based population.

Yes we do. We have plenty of deadbeats on the public dime. But even today we produce a bit more then olive oil.

"Oh, and BTW snapper is not a dude, but a dudess "

Dudette unless married.

Originally Posted by troung

Throw in a couple of Albanian hookers and you have yourselves a proper PM.

Your hookers will be 65% Macedonian, 25% Albanian, and 10% from other minorities. This is how it works here, thanks to the powers to be.

The banks were stupid to give them a dime - but the Greeks shouldn't slither out of debts they lied to get.

They lied, but noone cared to stop them. EU knew they lied (at least) since 2004 when Eurostat refused to verify their numbers.

No one pays taxes over there - if they thought the gravy train wouldn't ever got turned off then they got what they had coming. At least the US left wants to raise taxes on people, the Greeks wanted a larger welfare state without paying a dime into it of their own money - screw them.

So, how they collect 80-90bn euro per year? Total tax evasion over the years is ~20bn Euro, which is equal to their budget deficit for 2011 only.

Your hookers will be 65% Macedonian, 25% Albanian, and 10% from other minorities. This is how it works here, thanks to the powers to be.

Fine. I'll settle for Macedonian hookers - so long as I can call them that and not FRYOMians or some crap.

So, how they collect 80-90bn euro per year? Total tax evasion over the years is ~20bn Euro, which is equal to their budget deficit for 2011 only.

You know what I meant.

They lied, but noone cared to stop them. EU knew they lied (at least) since 2004 when Eurostat refused to verify their numbers.

Lying on documents doesn't mean you don't have to the pay debts.

Originally Posted by Mihais

It's the same like saying the Americans have an entitlement mentality.It's both true and BS..

80\20 from what i see around me.

Originally Posted by troung

Fine. I'll settle for Macedonian hookers - so long as I can call them that and not FRYOMians or some crap.

Talk to them dirty, them bitches

You know what I meant.

Yes, but there are more countries around with higher tax evasion. So talking in absolutes like they ALL don't pay their taxes is not fair.

Lying on documents doesn't mean you don't have to the pay debts.

They will. Promise. Just they can't. And those who borrowed them, knew they won't be able to pay back.


Back to Lagarde...
Irate Greeks vilify IMF chief on Facebook after she brands them tax dodgers - Telegraph

I Lady 'dudette' to clarify that issue.

Re Greece: The EU was fully aware that the Greeks didn't meet the qualify criteria to join the EU but this was covered up as the euro is a political project, not an economic one. If all Greeks payed ALL their taxes it would NOT solve the deficit so tax easion is NOT the cause of their problems, only a minor part of - as it is in every country.

The Greeks work harder than any other country in Europe but because they are locked into the euro they unproductive; it's exactly the same reason as why the US wants the yuan to float freely. The yuan would rise relative to the US$ making Chinese imports more expensive in the US and US exports relatively cheaper in China. In Europe a new Greek drachma would devalue relative to the euro making them productive. It is NOT about tax evasion or welfare state it's about relative unit costs, though certainly I agree Europe is too hung up on the welfare state but the EU encourages this.

If I lend money to someone that I know cannot repay me who is responsible? It's a bit like the 'sub prime' market.