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Reply With QuoteokOriginally Posted by Mihais
Huh ?
Army is sharing the cost isn't it. Its public funded i mean.
CCP does not think the 'rebuilding' phase is over yet
When you go beyond the basic levels,such a steady supply of food, a bit of order,you're done with authoritarian rule.And even then,the less you pedal the idea that all you have needs sharing or else,the better and faster you do the job.
There is a reason they call the army wherever there is a disaster.
China is a Mafia state.They can call themselves the Romulan Empire for all that matter.Words don't change the substance.
Those who know don't speak
Fools seem to be artificially made,'cause there's a hell lot of them and they have no disease
ok
Huh ?
Army is sharing the cost isn't it. Its public funded i mean.
CCP does not think the 'rebuilding' phase is over yet
The army isn't present to share any cost.It's in disaster stricken areas to spread death to the looters and give everyone the bit needed for survival.From here there is only one step,organising a basic economy,like farming etc... It's authoritarian rule at its best,no ifs,no butt's and a kick in the a$$ if you raise the voice.
Those who know don't speak
Fools seem to be artificially made,'cause there's a hell lot of them and they have no disease
If the situation dictates it, and they have the funds, ground attack planes, helos and other things are a possibility. I'm sure major arms manufacturers don't mind selling equipment (especially if they are designated export models), the Russians would be the first I'd expect, and soon after I'd be surprised if Washington forbade defense companies from supplying export models to outfit corporations. Sure, the technology may lag a generation or two behind what national armies are fielding, but it still outshines by a mile anything else the world has to offer.
You aren't forced to buy a product. In any case, the person who is making the technology available to the public should benefit.Then I wonder who is benefiting when I can locate myself, get a direction and use other fancy GPS options on my phone and GPS device without SIM or other form of service provider.
I am of the view that the incorporation of high-tech weapons systems particularly in surface ships, aircraft and AFVs + a digitzed battlefield requires not only soldiers to operate and be versed in operating said equipment, but technicians and engineers who also must be able to service and maintain those weapon-systems. Overall amount of combat personnel are lower, BUT the cost to maintain even that lower amount of personnel balloons. My point being, is that small nations cannot afford to build up the infrastructure necessary to maintain such a force, and if they field a mass conscript army like the Iraqis did, they will get destroyed via technological disadvantage.Guess what, due to technology virtually every sector needs less men for the same job. Militaries are not shrinking because of outsourcing and that was my point.
Not a fair comparison, given that desert storm took place in a unipolar world with the US at the head of it, and the market and demand for PDAs was just in its infancy. It won't occur overnight, but now they are used to augment conventional forces involved in CT operations and anti-insurgency operations, you can't deny they are heading to the point and size where they will be able to handle small operations by themselves.I would love to see your mercs in their AFV against Iraqis.
Referring to your statement that ideology, nationalism and fanaticism trumps guys working to put bread on the table. Means nothing, like the Waffen SS and SS found out when their logistics were crumbling. It's all industrial. IIRC, the majority of Germanys armed forces WERE not comprised of fanatics, (Heer), and only the SS and Waffen SS could be held up as ideological vanguards. The same for the Soviets, outside of a few Guards divisions, except they had the choice to die by a German gun or a Soviet gun for desertion.When you can't get ammo or beans you can't pay those mercs. Or I missed something?
Again, industry in its infancy. I'm not expecting Jets and Helos before AFVs.Tell me which jets or helos those "one in ten" during war in Yugoslavia were flying?
Israel, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, all quite stable, all surrounded by volatile neighbours. I was not suggesting that the oil makes the volatile. Statement was unimportant.Venezela, ME and Canada share the same stability as their neighbors. It's not the oil that makes them volatile.
Consider the amount of hacking and the scope/scale of it that took placeEither it is a bad analogy or Americans got really soft.
Spanish military? Lol.Google this: "Argentina, Spain, Repsol, YPF"
Referring to WW2 only. A-stan and Vietnam (for the U.S) were fought as total war on the side of the invaded, not the invaders. The invaders didn't fight a total war like they did in WW2.When were Soviets in total war more then once?
Again, ideology means nothing.Soviets didn't refuse to fight, they got bankrupted to support the fighting. Big difference.
"Who says organization, says oligarchy"
To raise another point, are PMCs/PDAs the logical counter and alternative to the irregular/unconventional forces that NATO/ISAF has come up against in the last 10 years? Given how stymied conventional forces seem to be against them (again, not questioning the professional quality, simply the political inability to prosecute the war to its full extent)
For one, they aren't hampered by shifting political tides, they can accomplish their task using whatever means necessary( presumably the reason they were hired in the first place), the economy of the nation paying for the services isn't affected by the amount of manpower and capital floating away into a sinkhole (mercs wouldn't bother with reconstruction I bet). If say, the U.S had contracted a cabal of PMCs/PDAs to execute the Afghanistan war, whatever means and methods they did to achieve the operational objective, destruction of the taliban and AQ, the UN wouldn't be able to interfere either wrt to suing the mercenaries under international law. Whilst human rights may sound nice, the mercs at war would be providing a nice trickle of profit to arms manufacturing industries in various nations, not only the US, and as such, I don't see any major international effort to bring to "justice" PMCs/PDAs succeeding.
"Who says organization, says oligarchy"
The disparity in numbers is so large, that the comparison does not stand .
you are comparing millions with tens of thousands.
J'ai en marre.
Disparity b/w Guards units and SS/Waffen SS?
"Who says organization, says oligarchy"
No, the numbers of soviet soldiers KIA compared to those killed by NKVD.
BTW the penalty for desertion was equally drastic in the German armed forces
with around 23.000 death sentences carried out.
J'ai en marre.
The Taliban would break a pmc force standing in for ISAF.For one, they aren't hampered by shifting political tides, they can accomplish their task using whatever means necessary( presumably the reason they were hired in the first place), the economy of the nation paying for the services isn't affected by the amount of manpower and capital floating away into a sinkhole (mercs wouldn't bother with reconstruction I bet). If say, the U.S had contracted a cabal of PMCs/PDAs to execute the Afghanistan war, whatever means and methods they did to achieve the operational objective, destruction of the taliban and AQ, the UN wouldn't be able to interfere either wrt to suing the mercenaries under international law. Whilst human rights may sound nice, the mercs at war would be providing a nice trickle of profit to arms manufacturing industries in various nations, not only the US, and as such, I don't see any major international effort to bring to "justice" PMCs/PDAs succeeding.
No group of mercenaries has ever put the amount of firepower the USAF can bring to the table. A couple of Mi-24s and the odd MiG fighter wouldn't make up the difference.
A Pakistani strike corps could walk through any pmc brigade/division.
No drone strikes in Pakistan.
===================
The role of mercenaries in third world conflicts has been vastly overrated.
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
30 thousand fighters tops. Lack of an ISAF involvement means there is a lot of potential free labor (military-experience) floating around, and the government would be providing the capital. Now, sure, they can't field comparatively near any men, but the organizations are expanding to fit demand. What the state can do, private enterprise can do better and cheaper. The last few decades of economic growth in the east can be attributed to that/ Why should this truism not hold in this industry?
How useful are Jets and strategic bombers in COIN wars? Outside of CAS how much of the USAF can be brought to bear against the Taliban?No group of mercenaries has ever put the amount of firepower the USAF can bring to the table.
And would be construed as Pakistan intervening within American operations to bring AlQ/Taliban to justice. Which is something I doubt Washington would allow.A Pakistani strike corps could walk through any pmc brigade/division.
Check out Airscan. Already operating UAVs independently. No Reapers or Predators, but it won't take them long to weaponize them. Sooner or later, given the growth these firms have, they will seek out to either acquire them via manufacturers, or create an indigenous program.No drone strikes in Pakistan.
But only recently are they becoming legitimate organizations and not shadowy ex-Warsaw Pact chaps.The role of mercenaries in third world conflicts has been vastly overrated.
The threat of death is enough is it not? You don't have to execute an entire battalion to set an example. + political commissars attached to units to prevent any "loss of morale" so to speak.No, the numbers of soviet soldiers KIA compared to those killed by NKVD.
Do you have statistics on NKVD purges of the Red Army and/or on the executions or gulag breaks for POWs that were recaptured.BTW the penalty for desertion was equally drastic in the German armed forces
with around 23.000 death sentences carried out.
"Who says organization, says oligarchy"
Pakistan would shoot back.Check out Airscan. Already operating UAVs independently. No Reapers or Predators, but it won't take them long to weaponize them. Sooner or later, given the growth these firms have, they will seek out to either acquire them via manufacturers, or create an indigenous program.
No it would be Pakistan fighting mercenaries.And would be construed as Pakistan intervening within American operations to bring AlQ/Taliban to justice. Which is something I doubt Washington would allow.
Close air support, recon, air-mobility - no pmc operation in Africa has come close to what the USAF does. There is nothing on the private market which comes close to a B-1 or F-15E.How useful are Jets and strategic bombers in COIN wars? Outside of CAS how much of the USAF can be brought to bear against the Taliban?
No ISAF forces frees Pakistan's hands and weakens the forces in the field against the Taliban. Of those 30k men, how many would be available for mobile operations - 15k? 10k?30 thousand fighters tops. Lack of an ISAF involvement means there is a lot of potential free labor (military-experience) floating around, and the government would be providing the capital.
Some BMPs and T-55s and a squadron or two of Hips/Hinds won't cut it.Now, sure, they can't field comparatively near any men, but the organizations are expanding to fit demand. What the state can do, private enterprise can do better and cheaper. The last few decades of economic growth in the east can be attributed to that/ Why should this truism not hold in this industry?
Stupid idea. Furthermore the US would be held responsible politically for anything stupid they do.
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
Try a few Havoc's,a few UCAV's ,some GMLRS and other precision weapons.Only products that are or will be soon available at reasonably cheap prices.
There are 2 schools of thought regarding mercs.One says they did the job.The other said the native armies were the bulk and the mercs were there acting as tourists and getting paid for it.
Hint 1.African batallion commanders on average have the skills of squad leader in a Euro army.There were and still are exceptions,but in general they're poor,unmotivated,badly lead fighters.
Hint 2. It pays big political dividends to bad mouth the mercs,but strangely,for 50 years 3d world countries can't fight a semblance of decisive war without them.
You won't have every mistake on TV 5 minutes after a missile hits unarmed innocent civilians just after they ditched their weapons with BW instead of ISAF.And A-stan is the sort of country where a small mechanized army can't win,while a big one can't live.Pak army won't reach Kandahar.
Those who know don't speak
Fools seem to be artificially made,'cause there's a hell lot of them and they have no disease
That will go on until BW gives the media something in return. Same as with regular armies.
The moment the media has no interest in turning a blind eye and starts reporting the "incidents" the political heat will be on those who ordered the services of the mercs.
No such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.
Dok,a modern ''war'' is important to the public as long as its important to the media.And as long as the media doesn't hangs around and the warriors themselves have no need to brag in excess,the heat from the media and the public can be kept at tolerable levels.
I don't believe in the existence of a free media.And heroes are rare and they only have 15 minutes of fame.To have a decisive effect you need a continuous,pervasive and intensive media campaign.
Those who know don't speak
Fools seem to be artificially made,'cause there's a hell lot of them and they have no disease
And Pakistan would shoot back at people attacking Taliban safe zones.Try a few Havoc's,a few UCAV's ,some GMLRS and other precision weapons.Only products that are or will be soon available at reasonably cheap prices.
Replace ISAF with BW, and the Pakistanis and Taliban would control most of the country.You won't have every mistake on TV 5 minutes after a missile hits unarmed innocent civilians just after they ditched their weapons with BW instead of ISAF.And A-stan is the sort of country where a small mechanized army can't win,while a big one can't live.Pak army won't reach Kandahar.
They get so much press because they speak the same language as the reporters. And plenty of third world nations can fight without foreign mercenaries doing the lifting for them.Hint 2. It pays big political dividends to bad mouth the mercs,but strangely,for 50 years 3d world countries can't fight a semblance of decisive war without them.
Yeah sure.Hint 1.African batallion commanders on average have the skills of squad leader in a Euro army..
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That's without getting into the wonderful recruiting tool of foreign mercenaries burning Muslim villages
Last edited by troung; 02 May 12, at 21:51.
To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway
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