Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Climate change end game.

  1. #1
    Contributor captain's Avatar
    Join Date
    19 Jun 07
    South Australia

    Climate change end game.

    We have here a huge thread on "Global warming" and Shek's "videos" but I think this is more appropriately put in the "International Economy" section as that is what I believe the Global Warming thing is all about.

    In a few weeks time world leaders will head to Copenhagen and most will sign the draft treaty that will forever bind their respective countries.
    The details of that treaty is something most have never seen but a little is starting to emerge and the devil is in the detail.

    This treaty appears to be the leftist's wet dream come true in that their desire to recreate the world in their own image, they must first tear down the present system.
    I doubt many of these people have mirrors in their own homes, otherwise they would be aware that their own image would make Freddie Kruger seem more serene and soft than the Mona Lisa.

    A few weeks ago, in reply to Zara I made the assertion that an Emmissions trading scheme or similar, would bring about the largest and quickest transfer of wealth from those who produce it to those that do not, the world has ever seen.
    I stand by that still and in the interval have seen and read more that vindicates that.

    On the 14th Oct, Lord Christopher Monkton addressed the University in St Paul, Minnesota and delivered the most eloquant damming of the Global warming/Climate change spin I have seen and puts all the debunkng nicely in one presentation.

    The short closing statement that is USA specific is here:YouTube - Is Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty? and has in the space of two weeks had nearly 1.8 million hits.

    The full version is 95 minutes long but well worth watching.

    For us in Australia, any signing of the Copenhagen treaty will mean economic ruin and I will produce and write more about that later.

    Last edited by captain; 02 Nov 09, at 09:54.

  2. #2
    Contributor captain's Avatar
    Join Date
    19 Jun 07
    South Australia
    Lord Monkton's address has begun to be noted on the MSM and the following article puts some more flesh on the subject.

    OPINION ASIA OCTOBER 28, 2009, 7:05 P.M. ET.Has Anyone Read the Copenhagen Agreement?
    U.N. plans for a new 'government' are scary

    We can only hope that world leaders will do nothing more than enjoy a pleasant bicycle ride around the charming streets of Copenhagen come December. For if they actually manage to wring out an agreement based on the current draft text of the Copenhagen climate-change treaty, the world is in for some nasty surprises. Draft text, you say? If you haven't heard about it, that's because none of our otherwise talkative political leaders have bothered to tell us what the drafters have already cobbled together for leaders to consider. And neither have the media.

    Enter Lord Christopher Monckton. The former adviser to Margaret Thatcher gave an address at Bethel University in St. Paul, Minnesota, earlier this month that made quite a splash. For the first time, the public heard about the 181 pages, dated Sept. 15, that comprise the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change—a rough draft of what could be signed come December.

    So far there have been more than a million hits on the YouTube post of his address. It deserves millions more because Lord Monckton warns that the aim of the Copenhagen draft treaty is to set up a transnational "government" on a scale the world has never before seen.

    The "scheme for the new institutional arrangement under the Convention" that starts on page 18 contains the provision for a "government." The aim is to give a new as yet unnamed U.N. body the power to directly intervene in the financial, economic, tax and environmental affairs of all the nations that sign the Copenhagen treaty.

    The reason for the power grab is clear enough: Clause after complicated clause of the draft treaty requires developed countries to pay an "adaptation debt" to developing countries to supposedly support climate change mitigation. Clause 33 on page 39 says that "by 2020 the scale of financial flows to support adaptation in developing countries must be [at least $67 billion] or [in the range of $70 billion to $140 billion per year]."

    And how will developed countries be slugged to provide for this financial flow to the developing world? The draft text sets out various alternatives, including option seven on page 135, which provides for "a [global] levy of 2 per cent on international financial market [monetary] transactions to Annex I Parties." Annex 1 countries are industrialized countries, which include among others the U.S., Australia, Britain and Canada.

    To be sure, countries that sign international treaties always cede powers to a U.N. body responsible for implementing treaty obligations. But the difference is that this treaty appears to have been subject to unusual attempts to conceal its convoluted contents. And apart from the difficulty of trying to decipher the U.N. verbiage, there are plenty of draft clauses described as "alternatives" and "options" that should raise the ire of free and democratic countries concerned about preserving their sovereignty.

    Lord Monckton himself only became aware of the extraordinary powers to be vested in this new world government when a friend found an obscure U.N. Web site and searched through several layers of hyperlinks before discovering a document that isn't even called the draft "treaty." Instead, it's labelled a "Note by the Secretariat."

    Interviewed by broadcaster Alan Jones on Sydney radio Monday, Lord Monckton said "this is the first time I've ever seen any transnational treaty referring to a new body to be set up under that treaty as a 'government.' But it's the powers that are going to be given to this entirely unelected government that are so frightening." He added: "The sheer ambition of this new world government is enormous right from the start—that's even before it starts accreting powers to itself in the way that these entities inevitably always do."

    Critics have admonished Lord Monckton for his colorful language. He has certainly been vigorous. In his exposé of the draft Copenhagen treaty in St. Paul, he warned Americans that "in the next few weeks, unless you stop it, your president will sign your freedom, your democracy and your prosperity away forever." Yet his critics fail to deal with the substance of what he says.

    Ask yourself this question: Given that our political leaders spend hundreds of hours talking about climate change and the need for a global consensus in Copenhagen, why have none of them talked openly about the details of this draft climate-change treaty? After all, the final treaty will bind signatories for years to come. What exactly are they hiding? Thanks to Lord Monckton we now know something of their plans.

    Janos Pasztor, director of the Secretary-General's Climate Change Support Team, told reporters in New York Monday that with the U.S. Congress yet to pass a climate-change bill, a global climate-change treaty is now an unlikely outcome in Copenhagen. Let's hope he is right. And thank you, America.

    Ms. Albrechtsen is a columnist for the Australian.
    Source;The Copenhagen Agreement and a Scary U.N. Power Grab. -

    I will produce some more detail as to how the "treaty" will effect Australia specifically when I find some extra detail and put my thoughts about it in order.


  3. #3
    Join Date
    05 Jul 08
    I've got my helmet on; you can't tell me I'm not in space!
    Lord Moncton also appeared on Glenn Beck. Don't know if that has anything to do with it... I reference my earlier post:

  4. #4
    Contributor captain's Avatar
    Join Date
    19 Jun 07
    South Australia
    With the exposure of the deliberately distorted science from Britain's CRU, one would have thought the people responsible would have at least paused their threats and intimidation but,,,,

    Scientists target Canada over climate.

    Damian Carrington, Thursday 26 November 2009 22.54 GMT.

    Prominent campaigners, politicians and scientists have called for Canada to be suspended from the Commonwealth over its climate change policies.

    The coalition's demand came before this weekend's Commonwealth heads of government summit in Trinidad and Tobago, at which global warming will top the agenda, and next month's UN climate conference in Copenhagen. Despite criticism of Canada's environmental policies, the prime minister, Stephen Harper, is to attend the Copenhagen summit. His spokesman said today: "We will be attending the Copenhagen meeting … a critical mass of world leaders will be attending."

    Canada's per capita greenhouse gas emissions are among the world's highest and it will not meet the cut required under the Kyoto protocol: by 2007 its emissions were 34% above its reduction target. It is exploiting its vast tar sands reserves to produce oil, a process said to cause at least three times the emissions of conventional oil extraction.

    The coalition claims Canada is contributing to droughts, floods and sea level rises in Commonwealth countries such as Bangladesh, the Maldives and Mozambique. Clare Short, the former international development secretary, said: "Countries that fail to help [tackle global warming] should be suspended from membership, as are those that breach human rights."

    The World Development Movement, the Polaris Institute in Canada and Greenpeace are among the organisations supporting the plan. Saleemul Huq, a lead author for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, said: "If the Commonwealth is serious about holding its members to account, then threatening the lives of millions of people in developing countries should lead to the suspension of Canada's membership immediately."

    Canada's environment department refused to comment on the call for it to be suspended.

    The Commonwealth comprises 53 states representing 2 billion people. In the past it has suspended Pakistan, Zimbabwe, Nigeria and South Africa for electoral or human rights reasons. Speaking earlier this week, its secretary general, Kamalesh Sharma, said: "I would like to think that our definition of serious violations could embrace much more than it does now."
    Source; Scientists target Canada over climate change | Environment | The Guardian

    Who exactly is this "coalition" and what would be their "definition of serious violation"?

    With some luck the ETS that the Australian government is trying to ram through will fail and Australia will join Canada on the to be exiled list.


  5. #5
    Senior Contributor Luke Gu's Avatar
    Join Date
    11 Jul 09
    I get the information that :the sea level around Maldives haven't rise。Do anyone can explain it?

  6. #6
    Armchair Worrier Senior Contributor bolo121's Avatar
    Join Date
    19 Dec 07
    I just saw the youtube video.
    Wow. Just Wow. He held me mesmerised for an hour and a half.
    For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

  7. #7
    Contributor captain's Avatar
    Join Date
    19 Jun 07
    South Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Gu View Post
    I get the information that :the sea level around Maldives haven't rise。Do anyone can explain it?
    Luke, if the sea level has not risen in the Maldives, that is just an inconvenient fact that the doomsdayers will gloss over.

    What they certainly will not tell you is, if the sea level were to rise, it very well may not be the result of glabal warming.

    There are a number of other possibilities that are worth considering.

    1). I have read that there are many thousands of under sea mountains that are active volcanos.
    Some of them are vents that produce super heated water, others are only sporadically active and still others are very active and have/are growing to and enormous size that must displace sea water as they grow.
    The largest of these "sea mounts" rises 3000 metres from the sea floor and is many kilometres wide at it's base.
    If you were to drop a golf ball into a jug of water, the level rises as the water is displaced.
    Type " sea mount " into Google and see what you come up with.
    Also look for videos of the same.

    2). The Asia Pacific region encompasses the "ring of fire" where the earth's crust is most prone to movement.
    As movement occurs, land masses either sink or are forced upwards as evidenced in cliff faces that we are able to see that show massive fault lines and obvious movement, sometimes extreme.
    I would love to see the look on the faces of the doomsdayer cultists if the Maldives were suddenly pushed up a 100 metres above their present level.)
    The Maldivians probably would not be that amused though because it may mean they are sitting on top of a newly active volcano.

    3). Most of these small island countries are in the sub tropic and tropical parts of the Indian and Pacific oceans and as such, regularly receive very heavy rainfalls that cause massive erosion, especially where land has been cleared to provide areas for food production.
    Eroded materials end up in the sea, neccessarily reducing the land mass above the sea level.

    4). Human and animal populations require fresh water to live and unless there are lakes/dams, the water is drawn from wells/bores.
    Over demand on the water supply will lower the water table causing the soil above to dry out and compact. ie, as the soil dries out the land level lowers slightly.
    Some soils such as Bay of Biscay soils are highly reactive and move a great deal as they dry out or are moistened.

    All of the above are possibilities and are to a large extent just the natural ebb and flow of the earth that humans have minimal if any control over.

    If the Maldives sea level hasn't changed, global warming/cooling would appear to be not significant enough to bring about the doomsday cultist's prophecy but most likely, the earth is at relative peace with it'self for the moment.

    Where there are huge financial gains/rorts to be had for a select few, these alternative thoughts are heretical.

    Last edited by captain; 14 Dec 09, at 07:47. Reason: typos

  8. #8
    Global Moderator
    Dirty Kiwi
    Parihaka's Avatar
    Join Date
    10 Nov 04
    Wellington, Te Ika a Maui, Aotearoa
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Gu View Post
    I get the information that :the sea level around Maldives haven't rise。Do anyone can explain it?
    Despite popular opinion and calls to action, the Maldives are not being overrun by sea level rise Watts Up With That?
    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility

    Gottfried Leibniz

  9. #9
    Colonist Senior Contributor
    Join Date
    02 Mar 08
    Adelaide, Australia
    That was a pretty interesting report. I have two things to add to that.

    It is correct to say that erosion is not an indication of sea level rise. It is just as likely that a drop in sea level has affected the moisture content of the soil and caused it to slump. This is a very common occurance in Australia with low river levels, at tiems causing several meters to collapse without the available support moisture content provides.

    Secondly - are engineers reports available on these piers? I would not be trusting any pier that's been in place in Australia prior 1970, and before appropriate standards are set. The surest footing is bed rock. Jetty piers often (especially from the looks of the photos'). Have reduced load capacity requirements & hence construction standards are different from that of a bridge. Also you can count any variations out if they are not measured at specific a specific temperature and consistent with other measuring apparatus, specifically consistent thermal properties, & calibration at appropriate temperature.

    -Personally I don't think any of the measuring devices have been given a once over by any uniform standards organisation.

    In addition, linearity, needs to be looked at - expansion & settlement - some of which wasn't touched upon but we have put in a few jetties/piers in my lifetime, and the lack of people following standards has at least on one very graphic recollection, caused one another company did to sink when handling more than 10 people. Quite funny.

    One needs a guage fixed against a structure sitting in bedrock (Brooklyn Bridge) type scenario. To be considered credible. Of course in those days, Caisans werent at all liked (understandably!!!) hence there isn't really much out there you could use as a cedible extended timeline.

    I think I'll ask our local metrologist what he thinks of the measurement devices used to take sea level readings. He's was on the board of ISO a few years ago, one would imagine they have a view!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    29 Mar 09
    Wokingham , England
    Frankly future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early 21st century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally averaged temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree and, on the basis of gross exaggerations of already highly exaggerated computer predictions combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age !.

    Thanks to misreading the minor significance of a brief period of rising temperatures at the end of the 20th century, the Western world (but not India or China) is now contemplating measures that add up to the most expensive economic suicide note ever written. I can never subscribe to such delusional policies, and will always stand against them

    How long will it be before sanity and sound science break in on what begins to look like one of the most bizarre and mortally dangerous collective delusions ever to grip the human race? The polls are looking better every day so given recent revelations about that 'settled' science maybe people are waking up at last.

    Such is the truly extraordinary position in which we find ourselves today, though post Copenhagen thankfully it seems less likely that the more extreme policies will ever come to fruition

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Sino-US Relations, General Discussion.
    By Shuimo in forum East Asia and the Pacific
    Replies: 215
    Last Post: 05 Dec 10,, 19:24
  2. Ice melting across globe at accelerating rate, NASA says
    By pappu_10 in forum International Politics
    Replies: 185
    Last Post: 06 Jan 09,, 17:43
  3. Climate Change is real!!!!!!!!!
    By gunnut in forum Science & Technology
    Replies: 612
    Last Post: 22 Jan 08,, 21:17
  4. Replies: 275
    Last Post: 06 Jan 08,, 04:17

Share this thread with friends:

Share this thread with friends:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts