Rich Germans demand higher taxes

**Ironduke** · 10-23-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Rich Germans demand higher taxes

A group of rich Germans has launched a petition calling for the government to make wealthy people pay higher taxes.

The group say they have more money than they need, and the extra revenue could fund economic and social programmes to aid Germany's economic recovery.

Germany could raise 100bn euros (£91bn) if the richest people paid a 5% wealth tax for two years, they say.

The petition has 44 signatories so far, and will be presented to newly re-elected Chancellor Angela Merkel.

The group say the financial crisis is leading to an increase in unemployment, poverty and social inequality.

Simply donating money to deal with the problems is not enough, they want a change in the whole approach.

"The path out of the crisis must be paved with massive investment in ecology, education and social justice," they say in the petition.

Those who had "made a fortune through inheritance, hard work, hard-working, successful entrepreneurship, or investment" should contribute by paying more to alleviate the crisis.

The man behind the petition, Dieter Lehmkuhl, told Berlin's Tagesspiegel that there were 2.2 million people in Germany with a fortune of more than 500,000 euros.

If they all paid the tax for two years, Germany could raise 100bn euros to fund ecological programmes, education and social projects, said the retired doctor and heir to a brewery.

Signatory Peter Vollmer told AFP news agency he was supporting the proposal because he had inherited "a lot of money I do not need".

He said the tax would be "a viable and socially acceptable way out of the flagrant budget crisis".

The group held a demonstration in Berlin on Wednesday to draw attention to their plans, throwing fake banknotes into the air.

Mr Vollmer said it was "really strange that so few people came".

BBC NEWS | Europe | Rich Germans demand higher taxes

tankie · 10-23-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

BBC NEWS | Europe | Rich Germans demand higher taxes

Unbelievable , fancy that , rich people staying away ,

**Ironduke** · 10-23-2009, 12:18 PM

To be fair, I think the beeb is making a mountain out a molehill. They state there's 44 signatories to this petition, not exactly a mass movement. I'd assume 80% of all rich Germans cringe when they hear about this.

The definition of "rich" is also suspect. People "with a fortune of over 500,000 euros." Somebody with a net wealth of 500,000 euros isn't exactly what I'd consider "rich".

indus creed · 10-23-2009, 12:45 PM

Never trust the rich busybodies who ask for higher taxation levels. The super rich are pretty experienced at moving their wealth and keeping it out of tax predators reach.

Now, how to get the govt off their backs? Feed the upper middle-class, the barely rich etc to the tax collector.

**Shek** · 10-23-2009, 12:47 PM

Have they voluntarily paid more to the government? Lead by example!

gunnut · 10-23-2009, 13:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shek

Have they voluntarily paid more to the government? Lead by example!

Exactly! There are no laws that prevent them from making a donation. Why not donate money instead of demanding the government to steal from the people?

I believe Florida and Arkansas have a program set up for those who want to be taxed more. They can simply make a donation to the state. Guess how much money those programs have received?

crooks · 10-23-2009, 13:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

I believe Florida and Arkansas have a program set up for those who want to be taxed more. They can simply make a donation to the state. Guess how much money those programs have received?

Sounds good, I'd certainly donate to that here, and I'm not exactly undertaxed.

gunnut · 10-23-2009, 13:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crooks

Sounds good, I'd certainly donate to that here, and I'm not exactly undertaxed.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

It's wrong to force other people to donate to your cause. That's what demanding higher taxes really is, forcing other people to donate to causes they might not believe in.

crooks · 10-23-2009, 14:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

And there's nothing wrong with that.

It's wrong to force other people to donate to your cause. That's what demanding higher taxes really is, forcing other people to donate to causes they might not believe in.

I don't really consider democratic governance a 'cause', but queer views of yours notwitstanding I agree with the skepticism towards it.

My main gripe with this is it's idiocy - society has decided on tax rates in Germany, either elect a government with a mandate to increase them or leave them alone.

'Wealth' taxes seperate to income tax is silly.

Steezy · 10-23-2009, 14:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

And there's nothing wrong with that.

It's wrong to force other people to donate to your cause. That's what demanding higher taxes really is, forcing other people to donate to causes they might not believe in.

You could say that about tax in general, not just high or low tax. You probably wouldn't give a shit if you were taxed higher if it was going towards the military, but if it was going towards something else that's when you don't want the government coming in and taking your money.

gunnut · 10-23-2009, 14:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crooks

I don't really consider democratic governance a 'cause', but queer views of yours notwitstanding I agree with the skepticism towards it.

My main gripe with this is it's idiocy - society has decided on tax rates in Germany, either elect a government with a mandate to increase them or leave them alone.

'Wealth' taxes seperate to income tax is silly.

Did you know Kommiefornia has a special 1% tax on everything over $1 million that you make? That's on top of the 9.3% top rate for anyone who makes...take a deep breath...$43000 (adjusted gross income) a year.

That's right, you are the "rich" and deserve the top state income tax rate if you make more than $43k a year.

You might say that's low, but then you have to see that he would also need to pay a 25% federal income tax. And then a 10.25% sales tax if he lives in LA county.

**Ironduke** · 10-23-2009, 15:27 PM

I found it odd that CA only requires 15/30/5 in liability insurance and none for uninsured motorist coverage. That's the lowest rate in the country besides the two states that don't require it. Maybe they could slash Medi-Cal expenses by upping the required rates and requiring uninsured motorist coverage. Medi-Cal is what, 30% of the CA state budget? Medical expenses from car accidents are $165 billion/year in the US, which I reckon is 10% of total medical spending. How many people are in the hospitals due to car accidents?

Personally, I carry 100/300/100 of both, and will probably up it to 250/500/100.

GN, maybe you should move out to NoVA. Lower taxes, more jobs, better transit, and yet just as much traffic as SoCal.

gunnut · 10-23-2009, 16:52 PM

I know, I know...I should move. I want to move to either Nevada or Arizona though. They are just as hot in the summer as California desert but without the ridiculous taxes and gun laws. Besides, Vegas has some nice casinos and buffets.

What is this 15/30/5 thing you're talking about? I haven't done much research into insurance. I just know I pay $1100 a year for a $250 deducible policy from the Auto Club.

**Ironduke** · 10-23-2009, 17:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnut

What is this 15/30/5 thing you're talking about? I haven't done much research into insurance. I just know I pay $1100 a year for a $250 deducible policy from the Auto Club.

Bodily injury per person / bodily injury per accident / property damage per accident.

With 100/300/100, let's say I crash into a $100,000 BMW with three occupants, total it, and and each occupant sustains $100,000 in medical bills. It's all covered.

However, if one person sustains $120,000 in injuries and the other two $90,000, I can be sued for $20,000 for whatever isn't covered by other sources, whether it be their health insurance, government medical programs, or their own car insurance policy.

With 15/30/5, you can easily imagine what this translates to:

$15,000 per person in medical costs
$30,000 cap in medical costs per accident
$5,000 in property damage

If I were to carry that, in the above scenario, I could potentially be on the hook for $270,000 in medical costs and $95,000 in property damage.

If my car insurance policy can't pay it, I can't pay it out-of-pocket, and neither can they, well, then somebody has to.

I'm guessing you have a combined single limit (CSL). Say you have $300,000 CSL, a single occupant in a $1000 car could sustain $299,000 in medical bills and it'd all be covered. With the amount you're forking out, I'm hoping it's for full coverage on a nice vehicle or multiple vehicles.

gunnut · 10-23-2009, 18:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Bodily injury per person / bodily injury per accident / property damage per accident.

With 100/300/100, let's say I crash into a $100,000 BMW with three occupants, total it, and and each occupant sustains $100,000 in medical bills. It's all covered.

However, if one person sustains $120,000 in injuries and the other two $90,000, I can be sued for $20,000 for whatever isn't covered by other sources, whether it be their health insurance, government medical programs, or their own car insurance policy.

With 15/30/5, you can easily imagine what this translates to:

$15,000 per person in medical costs
$30,000 cap in medical costs per accident
$5,000 in property damage

If I were to carry that, in the above scenario, I could potentially be on the hook for $270,000 in medical costs and $95,000 in property damage.

If my car insurance policy can't pay it, I can't pay it out-of-pocket, and neither can they, well, then somebody has to.

I'm guessing you have a combined single limit (CSL). Say you have $300,000 CSL, a single occupant in a $1000 car could sustain $299,000 in medical bills and it'd all be covered. With the amount you're forking out, I'm hoping it's for full coverage on a nice vehicle or multiple vehicles.

That depends on your definition of a nice car. The bill for $1100 a year is for my 2006 Subaru Impreza that was just over $19k brand new in 2006. I have comprehensive coverage and a low deductible. I honestly don't remember what the limit is on the policy. I'll look for it when I get home tonight.

10-23-2009, 12:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
indus creed Patron Join Date: 08-08-07 Location: North America Posts: 179 Country:	Never trust the rich busybodies who ask for higher taxation levels. The super rich are pretty experienced at moving their wealth and keeping it out of tax predators reach. Now, how to get the govt off their backs? Feed the upper middle-class, the barely rich etc to the tax collector. Last edited by indus creed; 10-23-2009 at 13:07 PM..

10-23-2009, 12:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
Shek *Military Professional* Staff Emeritus Join Date: 02-23-05 Location: Krblachistan Posts: 10,416 Country:	Have they voluntarily paid more to the government? Lead by example! __________________ "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Best Tank of WWII	Wraith601	The World Wars	669	11-27-2009 21:03 PM
New Republican Poll 1/13	Ironduke	American Politics	119	11-10-2009 03:36 AM
Waging War on the Rich	astralis	International Economy	0	03-11-2009 10:35 AM
The Election Choice: Taxes	Ironduke	American Politics	0	10-26-2008 03:09 AM
The Blue-State Tax Burden	Gio	American Politics	111	01-12-2005 16:10 PM

10-23-2009, 12:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ironduke Burgomaster Join Date: 08-02-03 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 9,653 Country:	To be fair, I think the beeb is making a mountain out a molehill. They state there's 44 signatories to this petition, not exactly a mass movement. I'd assume 80% of all rich Germans cringe when they hear about this. The definition of "rich" is also suspect. People "with a fortune of over 500,000 euros." Somebody with a net wealth of 500,000 euros isn't exactly what I'd consider "rich".

10-23-2009, 15:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ironduke Burgomaster Join Date: 08-02-03 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 9,653 Country:	I found it odd that CA only requires 15/30/5 in liability insurance and none for uninsured motorist coverage. That's the lowest rate in the country besides the two states that don't require it. Maybe they could slash Medi-Cal expenses by upping the required rates and requiring uninsured motorist coverage. Medi-Cal is what, 30% of the CA state budget? Medical expenses from car accidents are $165 billion/year in the US, which I reckon is 10% of total medical spending. How many people are in the hospitals due to car accidents? Personally, I carry 100/300/100 of both, and will probably up it to 250/500/100. GN, maybe you should move out to NoVA. Lower taxes, more jobs, better transit, and yet just as much traffic as SoCal.

10-23-2009, 16:52 PM	#13 (permalink)
gunnut *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-27-06 Location: DPRK, Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 16,048 Country:	I know, I know...I should move. I want to move to either Nevada or Arizona though. They are just as hot in the summer as California desert but without the ridiculous taxes and gun laws. Besides, Vegas has some nice casinos and buffets. What is this 15/30/5 thing you're talking about? I haven't done much research into insurance. I just know I pay $1100 a year for a $250 deducible policy from the Auto Club.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)