Rich Germans demand higher taxes

**Ironduke** · 24 Oct 09, 01:05

Originally Posted by gunnut

That depends on your definition of a nice car. The bill for $1100 a year is for my 2006 Subaru Impreza that was just over $19k brand new in 2006. I have comprehensive coverage and a low deductible. I honestly don't remember what the limit is on the policy. I'll look for it when I get home tonight.

Then you have full coverage. With liability, if I get in a solo accident, I'm out a car. Ditto with an uninsured motorist.

**gunnut** · 24 Oct 09, 01:30

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Then you have full coverage. With liability, if I get in a solo accident, I'm out a car. Ditto with an uninsured motorist.

Oh yeah, and I'm glad I did.

My car was rear-ended by an illegal immigrant 2.5 years ago. He tried to leave the scene but couldn't get his crappy Ford restarted. I asked for information and he gave me a "Metricular Councilar" card that you can buy for $20 in Santa Ana and no insurance. Driving without insurance is illegal in California. I honestly don't understand what part of illegal do these people not understand.

Anyways, he ended up walking away before anyone (meaning cops) could stop him. He left his car there. I called the Auto Club. The adjuster told me if they could find the other driver then I would have to pay my deductible. If not, then I wouldn't have to pay for anything.

Still can't figure that one out.

The damage came out to be around $700 and there was no frame damage.

**crooks** · 24 Oct 09, 13:53

Originally Posted by gunnut

Did you know Kommiefornia has a special 1% tax on everything over $1 million that you make? That's on top of the 9.3% top rate for anyone who makes...take a deep breath...$43000 (adjusted gross income) a year.

That's right, you are the "rich" and deserve the top state income tax rate if you make more than $43k a year.

You might say that's low, but then you have to see that he would also need to pay a 25% federal income tax. And then a 10.25% sales tax if he lives in LA county.

On the other hand am I reading it right that anyone on between 43K and 1mil pays the exact same tax rate?

That's basically a flat tax, considering that a clear majority of the working population would fit into that band.
Problem that I see with that is the lack of recognition of the fact that someone on 500K can easily take a higher tax burden than someone on 43K.

I support higher taxes for the wealthy, just not stoopid separate ones like this one in Germany.

**~~pate~~** · 25 Oct 09, 08:11

Well, I hate to say it, but I knew a 'rich' German. I still love her but she married a German 'reporter' (God have mercy on both their souls...)

I would have married her, (not only would she not have me, she grew up in Germany at approx. the same time I grew up in the good ol' Us of A); she wanted to move here, I wanted to move there. Well, woman always wins...

She's happy now I suppose... Poor fraulein...

**gunnut** · 26 Oct 09, 20:32

Originally Posted by crooks

On the other hand am I reading it right that anyone on between 43K and 1mil pays the exact same tax rate?

That's basically a flat tax, considering that a clear majority of the working population would fit into that band.
Problem that I see with that is the lack of recognition of the fact that someone on 500K can easily take a higher tax burden than someone on 43K.

I support higher taxes for the wealthy, just not stoopid separate ones like this one in Germany.

In a way, yes you are correct. Except you didn't know about the 3 or 4 lower tax brackets between $0 and $43000. So pretty much if I make median income I will pay top rate in California, until I hit $1 million mark to qualify for the "surcharge."

**kato** · 28 Oct 09, 07:11

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Somebody with a net wealth of 500,000 euros isn't exactly what I'd consider "rich".

They would be "rich" in Germany though.

Originally Posted by gunnut

Did you know Kommiefornia has a special 1% tax on everything over $1 million that you make? That's on top of the 9.3% top rate for anyone who makes...take a deep breath...$43000 (adjusted gross income) a year.

... in Germany it's a 2% surcharge above €250,000 on top of the 43% top income tax rate for anyone making over €60,000.

Originally Posted by indus creed

The super rich are pretty experienced at moving their wealth and keeping it out of tax predators reach.

Evidenced in Germany by those above the €60,000 max cut-off only paying an average of 34% taxes on their (reported) income instead of their nominal tax rate of 43% starting at that amount.

**StevoJH** · 28 Oct 09, 08:15

Originally Posted by gunnut

Did you know Kommiefornia has a special 1% tax on everything over $1 million that you make? That's on top of the 9.3% top rate for anyone who makes...take a deep breath...$43000 (adjusted gross income) a year.

That's right, you are the "rich" and deserve the top state income tax rate if you make more than $43k a year.

You might say that's low, but then you have to see that he would also need to pay a 25% federal income tax. And then a 10.25% sales tax if he lives in LA county.

Stop complaining. :P

Australia Has:

Code:

Taxable income 	Tax on this income
$0 – $6,000 	        Nil
$6,001 – $35,000 	15% over $6,000
$35,001 – $80,000 	$4,350 plus 30% over $35,000
$80,001 – $180,000 	$17,850 plus 38% over $80,000
Over $180,000 	        $55,850 plus 45% over $180,000

Plus a 1.5% Medicare levy, 10% sales tax on everything, capital gains tax, stamp duty, local government rates.

I'm sure Chunder or one of the others can add in anything i've missed.

Edit: Oh, and fuel excise tax is $0.38143/Litre on all fuel except LPG.

**Chogy** · 28 Oct 09, 15:13

Stevo, that table scares me. Looking at it, if I had to live under it, my wife and I would have to make a decision... one of us may as well stop working. There'd be no point in it, and the economy would lose at least one valuable, skilled laborer. Where is the motivation to grow, to succeed dramatically, if the Man is going to take 1/2 of it away?

**kato** · 28 Oct 09, 19:26

Germany's income tax is a sliding window on a progression starting at something like 14.5% (above €7,600) and ending at a flat 42% (above €60,000).

End result is slightly lower than in that table from Australia, e.g.:
- on AUD 35,000 : AUD 3,713 tax (Oz: 4,350)
- on AUD 80,000 : AUD 17,829 tax (Oz: 17,850)

However, that's for a single person without kids. Married, especially with children, you'd be paying considerably less tax on the same income.

At least your indirect taxes (sales tax etc) seem to be considerably lower. For every number in there, just double it and you roughly have the German figure. Yes, fuel too.

**gunnut** · 28 Oct 09, 19:57

Originally Posted by StevoJH

Stop complaining. :P

Australia Has:

Code:

Taxable income 	Tax on this income
$0 – $6,000 	        Nil
$6,001 – $35,000 	15% over $6,000
$35,001 – $80,000 	$4,350 plus 30% over $35,000
$80,001 – $180,000 	$17,850 plus 38% over $80,000
Over $180,000 	        $55,850 plus 45% over $180,000

Plus a 1.5% Medicare levy, 10% sales tax on everything, capital gains tax, stamp duty, local government rates.

I'm sure Chunder or one of the others can add in anything i've missed.

Edit: Oh, and fuel excise tax is $0.38143/Litre on all fuel except LPG.

And you're happy about that?

You should be outraged! As well as kato in Germany. And you guys don't even spend 4.5% of GDP on defense.

**kato** · 29 Oct 09, 09:44

Taxes in Germany are just heavily tilted towards the employee's side. Corporative taxes are relatively low, and for the most part end up in the municipal budgets (county taxes) instead of the federal budget and are also redirected from there to state budgets.

As a result, the federal government only cashes in 7.5% and spends 7.8% of GDP this year - for comparison, in the 2009 US federal budget it's 18% in and 20.7% out (!!).

And that's with unemployment insurance as a federal item for Germany - in the US it's a state-level item (except for administration). Without unemployment insurance, the German federal spending would only be 4.5% of GDP, to get a better comparison between budgets.

For a general comparison of how the tax load is distributed to the different federation levels in Germany: The federal government takes in about 280 billion, the state governments together 220 billion, and the cities and counties take in 80 billion. Altogether that's 15.8% of GDP.

In the US, the federal government alone takes in more than that; and the state governments - haven't found a definitive figure - probably at least the same again.

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