China's Household Registration (Hukou) System: Discrimination and Reform

**~~haidian~~** · 08 Sep 08,, 15:42

i totally agree with what yeung3939 said.maybe only chinese people can fully understand some typical chinese issues.it is always easy to stand aside and criticize other people's way of life,cause it is not your life,but when it comes to your own life,you got to be carefully not to screw it up by making rash and stupid mistakes.

**Ray** · 08 Sep 08,, 19:24

Originally Posted by yeung3939

What exactly do Chinese posters disagree on? What is confusing you?
People just talk about the system using different words.

The truth is that the system violates human right, but the system also has positive impact on the economy as a whole. Although the system has to be abolished, adrupt abolishment of the system can do more harm than good to the Chinese people. There are more than 200 million HuKou rural people working or living in the city. The Hukou system has nothing to do with travel control, and has failed to achieve any kind of mind control.

If the posts by the Chinese on this issue is not confusing to those who have no clue except western sources, then you are not understanding the consternation.

You say it should be abolished, but you don't say why?

And again you say that 200 million Kukou rural are surviving and so, if they are surviving why change it?

Then you go off to state that if there is a change, it will cause a huge social problem.

All these are pithy statements, not substantiated with reason. We are seeking REASONs and not pithy statements that are Oraclish!

**~~haidian~~** · 09 Sep 08,, 09:51

Then you go off to state that if there is a change, it will cause a huge social problem.

that's a sure thing to happen,every chinese knows that.hukou system is a mistake and should be corrected,but considering the current situation in china,we have to do it gradually,step by step,and that is exactly the government has been doing in recent years.i m strongly against hukuo system but more strongly against a disastrous and impractical quick fix.

**yeung3939** · 09 Sep 08,, 11:12

Originally Posted by Ray

If the posts by the Chinese on this issue is not confusing to those who have no clue except western sources, then you are not understanding the consternation.

You say it should be abolished, but you don't say why?

And again you say that 200 million Kukou rural are surviving and so, if they are surviving why change it?

Then you go off to state that if there is a change, it will cause a huge social problem.

All these are pithy statements, not substantiated with reason. We are seeking REASONs and not pithy statements that are Oraclish!

You are just confusing yourself. I have offered many reasons to support my argument.

The Hukou system has to be abolished because it violates human rights. Everyone knows this.

Adrupt abolishment of the Hukous system may do more harm than good, because the Hukou system is here to soften the negative impacts of rural-urban migration and unevem development.

**sun** · 09 Sep 08,, 11:28

Yeung,
A small question to you.

Initially when Hukou system was introduced, the reason given was to avoid the chaos, which could have arised because of rural to urban migration.
Now as you are saying it is slowly being abolished, because it is violating some human rights.

My question is, when Hukou completely gets completely abolished, the initial cause(rural to urban migration), still exists. So what are other steps or policy will be introduced by Govt to address this issue?

**Ray** · 09 Sep 08,, 17:14

Adrupt abolishment of the Hukous system may do more harm than good, because the Hukou system is here to soften the negative impacts of rural-urban migration and unevem development.

I am not confused per se, but the confusion is attributed to the deliberate avoiding basic issue raised by you like the above.

If the system is bogus as you say it is, then what is the problem in abolishing it?

You also say that it has negative implication, but you resolutely avoid clarifying the 'negative implications'!

**yeung3939** · 09 Sep 08,, 18:25

Originally Posted by Ray

I am not confused per se, but the confusion is attributed to the deliberate avoiding basic issue raised by you like the above.

If the system is bogus as you say it is, then what is the problem in abolishing it?

You also say that it has negative implication, but you resolutely avoid clarifying the 'negative implications'!

I said 'adrupt abolishment'.

Please reread your article. Find out what the Hukou system has achieved, and imagine what would happen if the system was abolished tomorrow.

**yeung3939** · 09 Sep 08,, 18:29

Originally Posted by sun

Yeung,
A small question to you.

Initially when Hukou system was introduced, the reason given was to avoid the chaos, which could have arised because of rural to urban migration.
Now as you are saying it is slowly being abolished, because it is violating some human rights.

My question is, when Hukou completely gets completely abolished, the initial cause(rural to urban migration), still exists. So what are other steps or policy will be introduced by Govt to address this issue?

Develop the western provinces, assist the farmers, create more job opportunities in the city, social welfare.

Urbanization is an integral part of economic development a sign of advancement. You can evade it. There are no specific steps or policies that can 'solve' this problem.

**Ray** · 10 Sep 08,, 01:27

Originally Posted by yeung3939

I said 'adrupt abolishment'.

Please reread your article. Find out what the Hukou system has achieved, and imagine what would happen if the system was abolished tomorrow.

It is obvious that a 'here one day, gone tomorrow' in any system would cause confusion.

But, I am sure that since you say it is not worth it, you did not suddenly discover it was not worth it.

Therefore, obviously, the dispensations of China does not share your belief that it is a system that does not work.

It does help to regulate society the way the Chinese govt wants and is helping them to control the population to their advantage.

Notwithstanding, what is so bad about the system is what you have not informed, except that some have felt that it curbed human rights.

Develop the western provinces, assist the farmers, create more job opportunities in the city, social welfare.

Urbanization is an integral part of economic development a sign of advancement. You can evade it. There are no specific steps or policies that can 'solve' this problem.

The developing of parts of the country, assisting the farmers and creating jobs is a part of any govt and it is not singular to the Chinese Communist govt or the Hukuo system!

Anyway, since you are not aware nor can help in our understanding the issue, I will leave it at that.

**sun** · 10 Sep 08,, 04:52

Originally Posted by yeung3939

Develop the western provinces, assist the farmers, create more job opportunities in the city, social welfare.

Do you know in first place why coastal cities gets developed in much faster pace than inland cities?
Any idea of the time frame to achieve all these things?
For any goal, which doesn't have time frame is as well considered as plan on paper no implementation.

Originally Posted by yeung3939

Urbanization is an integral part of economic development a sign of advancement. You can evade it. There are no specific steps or policies that can 'solve' this problem.

So how can Govt completely abolish Hukou system?
See, inorder to abolish a system you should have an alternative plan to tackle the problem, for which the first system is created. Without any alternative you can not abolish a system, so abolishing Hukou is just a dream.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10 Sep 08,, 05:00

Originally Posted by yeung3939

Develop the western provinces, assist the farmers, create more job opportunities in the city, social welfare.

Urbanization is an integral part of economic development a sign of advancement. You can evade it. There are no specific steps or policies that can 'solve' this problem.

Again, you don't get it. If it's wrong, it's wrong. At the very least, people should not be charged with a crime if the law is still on the books. It ain't happening, is it?

**Ray** · 10 Sep 08,, 08:00

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Again, you don't get it. If it's wrong, it's wrong. At the very least, people should not be charged with a crime if the law is still on the books. It ain't happening, is it?

Colonel,

Prima facie, I find that there are many good points in the system, more so since my regimented way of thinking of the Army indicates it so.

I agree, that my democratic way of my society and thinking finds it repulsive.

Yet, my mind can't reconcile. I want to weigh it and see which side is better for a developing country. I want to know is this type of governance required to be a power? My country is nowhere near China. I want to know why.

An honest appraisal of the Chinese system would give me an idea where we have failed and China has come the winner.

Should my country change is my doubt.

My military regimented mind applauds the Olympic organisation! We had a good Asiad organisation, which was organised by the Army and we have the Commonwealth Games up next, I want to pressure them to do it well. Of course, I am aware that we will never come anywhere to the Chinese and their Olympics!

**~~haidian~~** · 10 Sep 08,, 09:56

If it's wrong, it's wrong.

in this world,in reality,it is just not that simple,many times people have to choose a lesser evil.

**Triple C** · 10 Sep 08,, 10:16

The Household system was meant to be an intrument of control. When the Chinese government says disorder, it means that it is a threat to its order. At its original form, the household system was a penal unit--if the unit fails to report criminal activities of its member, the unit is punished collectively. Other countries have had centuries of prosperity and order without it. What is so particular about the Chinese state that makes the household unit necessary? Are the Chinese people inherently wicked? Dense? Disorderly? Or is it the government in charge that neccessitated this system, because it depends on the suppression of the freedoms of its people to survive?