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Reply With QuoteThis is incomprehensible. It's impossible to believe that trained soldiers don't know what ammunition is in their small-arms weapon- THEIR personal weapon.
I've tried to imagine the scenario that could explain this as an accident. I can't. Help me.
Seventeen people, including a child left in a critical condition, were injured when soldiers fired live bullets instead of blanks during an open day display in Carcassone, France, regional officials said.
Fifteen civilians and two soldiers were injured in the incident, of which the details remained unclear, involving a demonstration by members of a marines parachute regiment of hostage liberation exercises, the regional authority said.
Four of the 17 were seriously injured, with two described as critical following "incomprehensible" scenes at the barracks near Carcassone, in the country's south-west.
According to local authorities, five children were among the injured.
Five helicopters, 11 firefighters' first-aid vehicles and two ambulances rushed to the scene to help the injured.
One soldier had been detained, although no explanation was immediately forthcoming for why the wrong ammunition was loaded into weapons.
"All hypotheses are being considered," said a national police spokesman tonight, adding that the weapons had been "seized and placed under lock and key".
Hospitals in the southern cities and towns of Toulouse, Narbonne, Montpellier and Perpignan, as well as Carcassone, were treating the wounded.
Colonel Benoit Royal, head of the army's information unit, said a number among the injured were from military families.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy urgently awaited the results of a top-level military probe into the incident, according to a presidential statement.
Sarkozy said he "shares with the families the pain caused by this drama. My first thoughts are with the victims. Everything will be put in place to care for them".
Lemaire added that investigators believed the deadly ammunition was loaded by mistake.
"The question being asked is 'Did the soldier engage in a criminal act or not?'," Lemaire said. "For now, no one can answer that, but the theory being worked on is one of error."
France's Defence Minister Herve Morin went "immediately" to Carcassone tonight, he said in a statement.
Troops use live ammo instead of blanks - World - smh.com.au
I know the french haven't won anything militarily since napoleon but this is ridiculous......
Illegitimi non carborundum
This is incomprehensible. It's impossible to believe that trained soldiers don't know what ammunition is in their small-arms weapon- THEIR personal weapon.
I've tried to imagine the scenario that could explain this as an accident. I can't. Help me.
"This aggression will not stand, man!"
Jeff Lebowski
I don't believe it.
Aren't blanks distinguishable from live ammunition?
In our army we have distinguishing markings for blanks and training ammunition that does not have any explosive content.
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
It appears that during the demonstration the soldier shot blank first and in the course of the action, while reloading, took the wrong amnos that were left in his pocket. Why did he still have real amnos in his pocket is the question.
Why is there always that one dumbass that screws things up? Absolutely unprofessional, the soldier should be permanently relieved of any duty.
Just a note, this is why I absolutely hate war re-enactments of any type. All the time in the U.S. people want to re-enact the civil war. And every once in a while some idiot loads up a ball and shoots someone. Here's an idea, quit it! Guns are not to be played with!!! Its the first thing we are told when a gun is put in our hand by a responsible party. IT'S NOT A TOY!! DON'T POINT IT AT ANYONE UNLESS YOU INTEND TO SHOOT THEM!!
Military training is a totally different thing in case someone was going to point that out. It is a much more controlled environment.
Because an NCO didn't do a proper brass and ammo check following a live fire. The soldier should have recognized the difference between a lead, pointy tipped cartridge and a non-pointy tipped cartridge with some type of sealant to allow for the building of gases to create the "pop" noise of a blank. I don't know about French blank rounds, but in the US, this sealant is a brighter purplish color that is easily visible.Originally Posted by Oscar
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3
Not that the soldier shouldn't receive his come uppance, but the chain of command should be crushed as well. The immediate NCO supervisor should lose stripes for failing to do his duty, and it should work its way up the chain as far as you can find lax standards for inspection.
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3
i,m almost positive every blank round is highly distinguishable from live ones, not to mention you need blank adapter so auto reloading works, and you can,t shoot live ammo with those, adapters.
so i,m having hard time beliving that myself.
Last edited by omon; 30 Jun 08, at 19:31.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin
Why has no one been charged yet?
Chimo
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thsfsniper
Why is there always that one dumbass that screws things up? Absolutely unprofessional, the soldier should be permanently relieved of any dutyAbsolutely, Sir!
Actually the soldier was charged and his superiors released...
The demonstration took place in a stadium (!) with heavy smoke to cover the "hostage liberation". So when the soldiers fired they had no sight of the public.
Having said that, tragic accidents such as this one, happen in every army...
Why did they have live ammo to begin with? Wouldn't their officer, while going through his Operational Risk Management checklist, identify this as a huge risk? Did someone else load their magazines for them? There is so much wrong with this story.
Well, I had never heard of an Operational Risk Management checklist during my service days. I agree with your last sentence. What we have been so far told is either incomplete or in error. I find the episode incomprehensible.
Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.
Is it normal to set up such an exercise or demonstration with no backstops or designated directions for trigger-pulling?
-dale
good point, but it was in france, so anything is possible.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin
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