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Thread: Indian Hospitals Lure Foreigners With $6,700 Heart Surgery

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    Indian Hospitals Lure Foreigners With $6,700 Heart Surgery

    Inevitable given the substanial involvement of Indian's in the North American and British medical fraternity.

    Adding to snakecharmers, sadhu's and slums, ............surgery :

    Jan. 27 (Bloomberg) -- In April, Ian Stuart Crombie, 64, couldn't finish his round of golf at the Bonny Island course in Rivers State, Nigeria, because of pain in his right hip. Doctors gave him two choices: live on painkillers or undergo surgery.

    Crombie opted for a route that more Europeans and Americans are taking. He looked beyond a decrepit airport and teeming streets and chose India for medical care.

    In September, the British citizen flew 5,159 miles (8,303 kilometers) from his home in Winchester to Apollo Hospital in Chennai. Doctors performed a hip resurfacing, which involved shaving his thighbone and fitting it with a metal head that was then anchored in his hip socket.

    With the operation, Crombie joined the international clientele flocking to India for cut-rate services that include telephone call centers, software design and financial analysis.

    ``Indian hospitals are a very cheap option where patients get the same quality they're used to back home,'' says Sanjay Dongre, who manages the equivalent of $237 million of shares at UTI Asset Management Co. in Mumbai, which owns Apollo stock.

    Foreign Influx

    Investors hoping to benefit from the influx of foreigners are driving up shares of Chennai-based Apollo Hospitals Enterprise Ltd. Apollo, which runs 33 hospitals in India, including the one in Chennai, is the country's only publicly traded hospital chain.

    On Jan. 25, Apollo traded at 243.6 rupees on the Mumbai Stock Exchange after rising 39 percent in 2004, triple the 12 percent gain for the benchmark Sensitive Index. Maxwell (Mauritius) Pte, a unit of Temasek Holdings Pte, the Singaporean government's investment company, bought a 5 percent stake in Apollo for $11.2 million in September.

    For Crombie, who was working as a human resources manager in Africa, Apollo presented a low-cost option. He says his medical plan didn't cover the hip operation. He didn't bother with the U.K. National Health Service because of its waiting list and decided not to pursue treatment in Nigeria. A private hospital back home would charge 15,000 pounds ($27,965), he says.

    Instead, Crombie paid a total of 5,000 pounds for his India trip, including the operation, airfare and a stay at the $130-a-night Park Hotel in Chennai.

    100 Billion Rupees

    Health care for foreign patients like Crombie will deliver 100 billion rupees ($2.3 billion) a year to Indian hospitals by 2012, according to a report by New York-based consulting firm McKinsey & Co. and the New Delhi-based Confederation of Indian Industry, the nation's biggest business group. The market in 2003 was $333 million according to the Gurgaon-based India Brand Equity Foundation, a partnership between the CII and India's Ministry of Commerce.

    Heart surgeons such as Naresh Trehan, 58, who practiced at the New York University School of Medicine before starting a hospital in India, are moving the nation beyond the medical services it already sells to foreigners.

    Wipro Healthcare IT Ltd. in Bangalore produces three- dimensional images from radiology scans for Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. SRL Ranbaxy Ltd., a Mumbai-based laboratory certified by the Northfield, Illinois-based College of American Pathologists, tests blood, other body fluids and tissue samples for hospitals in Abu Dhabi and Dubai.

    High Hurdles

    Hurdles to India's medical ambitions abound. With 100,000 patients a year traveling to the country -- up from 10,000 five years ago -- hospitals are struggling to remedy first impressions that can turn people off.

    Howard Staab, 53, a self-employed carpenter from Durham, North Carolina, chose India for surgery to repair a leaking mitral valve, a condition that can cause heart failure. Staab had toured Spain and New Zealand and spent 10 months at the South Pole building science research stations.

    Even so, he says, he and companion Maggi Grace, 51, were startled in September 2004 by streets overflowing with people and bicycles and by neighborhoods where new offices butt up against tarpaulin-covered slums. They wondered whether the price of his operation -- $6,700 with Trehan at New Delhi-based Escorts Heart Institute and Research Centre compared with $200,000 at Durham Regional Hospital in the U.S. -- was worth the risk.

    ``For a minute I thought, `What have I done?''' recalls Staab, who says he's happy with his surgery and care at Escorts.

    Image Improvement

    Harpal Singh, chairman of Fortis Healthcare Ltd., a privately held New Delhi company with three specialty hospitals in northern India, says the medical industry is banding together to improve its image.

    The Indian Healthcare Federation, a group of about 60 hospitals, is developing accreditation standards. In the U.S., organizations such as the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations, based in Oakbrook Terrace, Illinois, assess infection rates, the width of hospital corridors and the capacity of elevators.

    In India, there's no accreditation, and hospitals aren't required to provide information on the outcomes of treatments. ``There is nothing as far as quality standards go,'' says Vishal Bali, 36, vice president of operations at Wockhardt Hospitals Ltd., which is owned by founders of Indian drugmaker Wockhardt Ltd. ``Hospitals keep data, but they don't need to share it.''

    Sketchy Information

    Escorts' Web site lists only the number of procedures it has performed. Trehan, Escorts' founder and executive director, says the hospital had a mortality rate of 0.8 percent and an infection rate of 0.3 percent in 2003.

    That compares with an observed mortality rate, or the rate of actual deaths, of 4.77 percent for heart valve surgery or coronary artery bypass surgery that included heart valves at New York-Presbyterian Hospital from 2000 to 2002, according to a New York State Department of Health report.

    India competes for foreign patients with Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand and offers less in some areas, says Guy Ellena, director of the health and education department at Washington-based International Finance Corp., the private lending unit of the World Bank.

    Starbucks in Lobby

    He says Thailand's airports and roads are in better shape than India's because Thailand is a major vacation destination. In 2003, 10 million tourists traveled there, according to the Tourism Authority of Thailand's Web site. That was more than triple the number for India that year.

    Bumrungrad Hospital Pcl, which runs Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok, started courting overseas patients during the Asian economic crisis in 1997 as the devaluation of the baht drove down costs for visitors. That year, Bumrungrad treated 50,000 foreigners, says Curtis Schroeder, the hospital's CEO. It handled seven times as many in 2004, accounting for 35 percent of its patients, he says.

    Last year, Bumrungrad hosted 150 Indian delegations, including one led by Wockhardt's Bali, showing them intensive care units, recovery rooms and the Starbucks cafe in the lobby.

    International Focus

    ``The focus on international patients screams at you,'' Bali says. ``They have interpreters and instructions in multiple languages: Arabic, Bengali and Spanish. What it shows is that convenience offsets most other things for an international patient.''

    Indian hospitals are countering with perks of their own. Escorts representatives met Staab and Grace at New Delhi's Indira Gandhi International Airport, helped them through immigration and drove them to the hospital in a Toyota van. Their room was stocked with fruit and drinks.

    ``They had a car waiting and all these people helping,'' Grace says. ``I felt like Princess Di.'' After surgery, Escorts loaned Staab and Grace a mobile phone so they could stay in touch once they left the hospital.

    Foreign patients are still far from the norm. Operations on non-Indians accounted for 10 percent of the more than 4,000 surgeries at Escorts in 2003. Vijay Bose, who operated on Crombie, has performed about 300 hip resurfacings in India since 2000 -- 30 of them on foreigners.

    ``The care from Dr. Bose and his team, right down to the nurses, was very good,'' Crombie says.

    More Foreigners

    Foreign surgeries will pick up as rising health costs and long waiting lists provide incentives to travel to India and its low-priced rivals, Trehan predicts.

    In the U.S., health-related spending climbed 7.6 percent to $1.68 trillion in 2003, consuming almost 15.3 percent of the $11 trillion gross domestic product. It was the fifth consecutive year that the cost of medical care expanded faster than the economy, the Baltimore-based Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services said this month.

    U.S. employer-paid health insurance premiums have soared 59 percent since 2000, according to the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust, nonprofit groups that study medical care. In 2004, premiums averaged $9,950 for families and $3,695 for individuals, the groups found.

    Accidental Patient

    In the U.K., the waiting list for the government-funded National Health Service prompts some patients to look elsewhere. Last year, the lag averaged less than nine months for surgery, about half the 18 months in 1997.

    Unlike Crombie, who chose India after deciding not to pursue an operation through the National Health Service, Ian Brown, 57, discovered India by accident. In July, Brown, a director at Harrogate, England-based electronics company Surevision Ltd., suffered chest pain and went to his local doctor.

    The National Health Service told him he'd have to wait as long as four months for a test and then, if required, two years for an angioplasty to open blocked arteries, he says.

    On vacation in India in September, Brown experienced chest pain again and was rushed to Wockhardt Hospital in Bangalore. Wockhardt performed an angioplasty the next day, inserting a wire mesh tube called a stent to prop open an artery.

    ``The hospital could have been in London,'' Brown recalls. ``It was immaculately clean and had good standards.'' Back in England, Brown says, he got a letter from the National Health Service in November asking him to come in for his initial test -- two months after he'd had the surgery in India.

    India's Needs

    Not everyone is enthusiastic about India's push to become a health care destination.

    ``I'm not sure Indian hospitals should start focusing and investing huge amounts of money on treating overseas patients,'' IFC's Ellena says. ``They should first, or in parallel, meet the needs of the country.''

    In India, insurance plans cover 14 percent of the more than 1 billion people, leaving almost 900 million without protection, according to the McKinsey-CII report. As many as 350 million people live on less than $1 a day, according to the World Bank.

    India spends 5.2 percent of its $580 billion GDP on health care and still lags behind Thailand, Brazil and South Korea in life expectancy. People live 61 years on average in India, less than 68.9 years for a developing country such as Brazil and 77.3 years for a developed country like the U.S., according to the World Health Organization. India has 91 infant deaths per 1,000 births compared with 38 deaths for Brazil and eight for the U.S.

    $800 vs. $18

    Charging foreigners more than Indians is one way hospitals can make money to treat the poor, says Gautam Kumra, a McKinsey & Co. partner in New Delhi. An echocardiogram machine, used to picture the heart, costs about $200,000 anywhere in the world. Doctors can charge $800 per scan in the U.S.; in India, they charge 800 rupees, or $18, Trehan says.

    The difference makes it tough to recoup costs. ``Why are hospitals so excited about overseas patients?'' Kumra asks, pointing out that there are more than enough Indians to fill the nation's hospitals. ``It's not that they can't get volumes in India. What they can't get is pricing. They should charge for the value.''

    Charging More

    Fortis Healthcare plans to do just that. The company is setting up two hospitals on the outskirts of New Delhi. One will cater to overseas patients and charge them higher prices, says Harpal Singh, who adds the hospitals haven't set fees yet. Fortis is owned by brothers Malvinder and Shivinder Singh, who control India's largest drug company, Ranbaxy Laboratories Ltd. Harpal Singh is Malvinder Singh's father-in-law.

    One imbalance that works in India's favor is its lower salaries. A top cardiac surgeon in India makes about $330,000 a year compared with $5 million in the U.S., says Anupam Sibal, director at Apollo Hospital New Delhi.

    Cheaper pay and lower hospital fees make India hard to beat for health care costs, Trehan says. ``For countries with problems with their health care systems -- whether quality, cost, quantity -- India can fill the gap,'' he says.

    Foreign patients started traveling to India in rising numbers five years ago, as word of hospitals such as Apollo and Escorts spread among the 20 million people of Indian origin who live outside the country. Others tried India because they felt comfortable with Indian doctors, Wockhardt's Bali says.

    Angioplasty, Knee Replacement

    Some Middle Eastern patients began choosing India after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington, says Suneeta Reddy, 45, director of finance at Apollo Hospitals and daughter of founder and Executive Chairman Prathap Reddy, 71.

    In November, Waleed Khalid Al-Zadjali, 40, a doctor in Oman, picked Apollo for his father's angioplasty and his mother's knee replacement. Oman hospitals often refer patients to India for complicated procedures because the country is familiar, closer than the U.S. or Europe and cheap, he says. ``After 9/11, people were scared to go to the U.S.,'' he says.

    Returning Home

    Indian doctors are returning, too. Bose learned hip resurfacing at the University of Birmingham in the U.K. in the mid-1990s. He moved back to India in 2000 and is one of the first doctors to offer the procedure in his home country.

    Trehan, who was educated in India, began his medical practice in the U.S. He got his bachelor's degree in medicine and surgery from King George's Medical College in Lucknow in northern India. After graduation in 1969, he left for the New York University School of Medicine. He finished his residency in 1977 and stayed on as part of the faculty and to perform heart surgery. In 1982, he began thinking about opening a heart institute in India.

    `I used to get a lot of Indian patients in New York, and they asked me, `Why don't you do this in India?''' he says. He sent a proposal to six Indian business groups. The New Delhi-based Nanda family, which owns farm and construction equipment maker Escorts Ltd., helped with an initial investment of 170 million rupees in cash and loans, Trehan says.

    Trehan's Mission

    Trehan opened the heart hospital in 1988; today, it performs more than 4,000 operations a year. Trehan has trained 40 surgeons and serves as president of the International Society of Minimally Invasive Cardiothoracic Surgery, a Beverly, Massachusetts-based group with a thousand members worldwide.

    Escorts' white, six-story building with its green-tile parapets stands out on the corner of an intersection where shoppers dodge bicycle rickshaws and taxis.

    People jam the lobby, which has white-marble floors and black-granite counters. Seventeen patients are listed for operations on a December morning. In one operating room, doctors crowd around a man who has been in surgery for more than four hours. In another darkened theater, a surgeon sits four feet from the operating table. He bends over a console to view a three-dimensional image of the heart, working two joysticks that control robotic arms.

    Trehan says the machine lets surgeons make small cuts, reducing infection rates and recovery time. ``Heart surgery was not even known in this part of the world when I started,'' he says.

    Lifetime Achievement

    Trehan, in light-blue surgeon's clothes, sits at a desk cluttered with papers. Five computer monitors on a shelf behind him display patients' vital signs. A lifetime achievement plaque from the Geriatric Society of India lies on a coffee table. Surgeons line up to ask advice, charts in hand. He barks orders, and they turn around, stooping their shoulders as they go.

    Having accomplished what he set out to do with Escorts, Trehan is planning a multispecialty hospital in Gurgaon, on the outskirts of New Delhi, that's patterned on the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio and the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.

    He wants to meld western medicine with homeopathy and the practice of ayurveda, a holistic approach that balances a person's physical and emotional states. He expects the hospital to be ready in 2007 at a cost of $250 million. He says he's wrapping up funding and declined to provide more details.

    Tough Decision

    Staab, the North Carolinian, says Trehan's early work in the U.S. convinced him to choose Escorts. Even so, it wasn't an easy decision. Staab's initial thought when he heard about India was that calls to his local phone company were answered there. Apart from that, he and Grace liked Indian food. ``We kept trying to build confidence in our decision,'' Grace says.

    They looked into a package deal for about $40,000, including surgery, fees and the hospital stay, at the McAllen, Texas-based McAllen Medical Center. They considered Argentina.

    Grace's son, Brian Maxwell, 23, a second-year student at Stanford University School of Medicine in Stanford, California, proposed India, where he'd spent eight weeks working in hospitals. His professor, Sakti Srivastava, director of anatomy and surgery applications, recommended Escorts.

    `Dhanyavaad'

    Staab was rolled into Escorts' operating room on Sept. 28. Grace, who'd picked up a smattering of Hindi, wrote ``dhanyavaad,'' for ``thank you,'' on his bare chest with purple marker.

    The surgeons first decided to repair Staab's mitral valve. A day later, the valve walls thickened and obstructed blood flow. Staab went in for a second operation on Sept. 30, and doctors replaced the valve. He was ready to leave on Oct. 8 when blurry vision from suspected blood clots kept him for another two days to thin his blood. Staab and Grace returned to the U.S. on Oct. 24.

    Grace says finding out about India was the tough part. If not for Srivastava, she and Staab never would have figured out where to look, let alone gather the courage to make the trip.

    `Intimidating'

    ``I was worried I couldn't get clean or I would have to eat something rotten,'' Grace says. ``There has to be more done to get someone to India in comfort. You can't just get up and go.'' She says better access to information about India and its hospitals would have helped.

    Crombie was familiar with India, where his job had taken him to recruit workers in Cochin, Mumbai and New Delhi. He found Bose on the Internet and checked his credentials with doctors Bose had worked with in the U.K. He decided on India after e-mail exchanges persuaded him that hip resurfacing rather than hip replacement would give him a better shot at playing golf again.

    ``I can imagine someone who's not been to India before may find it intimidating,'' Crombie says.

    Easy Transition

    Indian hospitals are working to make the transition easier. Trehan wants to build a hospital in the Bahamas staffed by Indian doctors so travel would be shorter and the surroundings more familiar for U.S. patients. So far, there are no backers, he says. Apollo is setting up a London clinic to attract people seeking alternatives to the National Health Service.

    ``A doctor would look at them, find the problem and make all arrangements to get them to India,'' Suneeta Reddy says.

    Back in North Carolina, Staab had an opportunity to compare health care in the U.S. with his treatment in India. An early November checkup found that his blood was still too thick, and he entered Durham Regional Hospital.

    Grace says she had to ask for sheets to make Staab's bed and get him water herself. The bathroom wasn't cleaned, and they had to ask twice for the intravenous bag containing blood-thinning heparin to be changed when it became empty, she says. Carol Clayton, senior public relations specialist at Durham Regional, says the hospital addresses patient concerns as soon as they are brought to the staff's attention.

    Do It Again

    ``The care at Escorts was exceptional,'' Staab says. ``I would do it again.''

    Crombie echoes Staab's assessment. He says his colleagues were skeptical about India. Now, they're asking about Bose and the hospital.

    Just as Indian software companies started with small programming jobs and expanded to become a $16 billion global industry, India's international health care initiative is in its early stages. For patients and profits to increase, India must remedy negative first impressions and persuade doubters that millions of the country's poor and ailing won't be left behind.

  2. #2
    Ray
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    The corporate hospitals are as good as the western ones and they are cheap by Western standards.

    It is however hugely expensive as far as Indians are concerned.

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    Meanwhile an endorsement of India's medical competence from a neighbour on the Indian sub-continent, and that too of one of the smaller cities of India.

    Nice to know that medical competence has diffused out of the Metro's and Mini Metro's into the third rung of cities.

    Pakistani girl to return home with 'gift of love' from India:

    THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: ''I am very happy. I feel very good now,'' the shy Pakistani teenager Ayesha Shahbaz, who underwent a critical heart surgery here this week, said today. The thirteen-year-old, her head covered demurely with a 'dupatta', was all smiles and giggles as she addressed a press conference here along with her parents and doctors, who treated her at the Kerala Institute of Medical Sciences (KIMS).

    Burying her face in a bouquet presented to her earlier, all that the bashful eighth standard student could repeat was ''I feel very good now.'' Suffering from a congenital heart problem, Ayesha was operated upon at KIMS on January 23, under the 'Gift of Love' project of Rotary International.
    The surgery, which normally costs Rs 400,000, was done free of charge at KIMS. The visit was organised by the Thiruvananthapuram chapter of Rotary International in coordination with the Lahore Chapter.

    Hoping that increased people-to-people contacts would help in normalising relations between the two countries, Ayesha's father Mohammaed Shahbaz said that the people on both sides of the border wanted peace.

    Thanking his Indian hosts and the hospital authorities for taking excellent care of his daughter and family, Shahbaz said they felt completely at home.

    ''In fact, when we were in Delhi, we did not even think we were not in Pakistan. It felt just like Lahore. Kerala is different, but the people are very nice,'' Shahbaz, who works in a school in Lahore, said.
    Referring to Ayesha's surgery for a ventricular septal defect, Shahbaz said while treatment facilities were available in Pakistan also, they were not accessible to all.

    While treatment at a private hospital was out of reach, the waiting list at the government-run Punjab Institute of Cardiology stretches for years, he added.
    Rotary Governor of Thiruvananthapuram District K Regunath said he approached KIMS after the Rotary Governor of Pakistan M Abdul Rouf got in touch with him about Ayesha's case. The KIMS authorities agreed to do the surgery free of cost.

    Ayesha, who was likely to be discharged next week, could go back home now with a smiling face and a healthy heart, Dr Shahadulla added.

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    WAB Bartender Defense Professional
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    And that's how the market works, folks. If you don't want your heart surgery done by the Piercing Pagoda down at the mall, you'll spend more than $6700. But if the service is acceptable to you, you look for the lowest price, and someone will step in to fill that niche.
    "The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
    - George Orwell

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    Banned jon_j_rambo's Avatar
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    These Indian dudes take Blue Cross? The rates in the US are killing me. I could also use an eye exam & a set of glasses, going rate is $300 for a cheap exam & glasses, what a crock. Even with my Dental insurance, I gotta fork out an extra $50+ bucks just to get my teeth cleaned. We are getting fleeced in America by all the lawyers screwing the medical community. Does Dr. Patel have a toll-free number?

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    Jon J, I agree with you entirely about the lawyers screwing the medical community. As for the costs in India, I'm not sure but one of the Indian members might know.
    Am out of town for a while and then have tons of work coming up at school. Will be back once that's all done.

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    Jay
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon_j_rambo
    These Indian dudes take Blue Cross? The rates in the US are killing me. I could also use an eye exam & a set of glasses, going rate is $300 for a cheap exam & glasses, what a crock. Even with my Dental insurance, I gotta fork out an extra $50+ bucks just to get my teeth cleaned. We are getting fleeced in America by all the lawyers screwing the medical community. Does Dr. Patel have a toll-free number?
    My BCBS insurance covers me in India. But with your attitude, its very hard for you to survive Enjoy the fleecing!!
    A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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    @Jay --- Dude, I'm Rambo, I'm all about survival, I don't depend on others for my well being. I put my trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Beside that:

    Computer man says it's the end of time
    December 31st nineteen ninety-nine
    People buyin' up army surplus things
    Afraid of what the new year will bring

    I live back in the woods you see
    Y2k don't mean a thing to me
    I've got a shotgun, a rifle
    And a four wheel drive
    A country boy can survive
    Country folks can survive

    I can plow a field all day long
    I can catch catfish from dusk 'till dawn
    Make our own whiskey
    And our own smoke too
    Ain't too many things these ol' boys can't do
    [including bocephus]

    We grow good ol' tomatoes
    And homemade wine
    A country boy can survive
    Country folks can survive

    'cause you can't starve us out
    And you can't make us run
    We'll survive in the millenium
    We say grace
    And we say ma'am
    If you ain't into that we don't give a damn

    We came from the west virginia coal mines
    And the rocky mountains and the western skies
    If the bank machines crash

    We'll be just fine
    'cause a country boy can survive
    Country folks can survive

    I had a good friend in new york city
    He never called me bocephus
    Called me hillbilly
    [really]

    But he was killed by a man with a switchblade knife
    For forty-three dollars my friend lost his life
    Now this dude's gonna get out in a year or two
    'cause the system don't work for me and you
    But a country boy can survive
    Country folks can survive

    'cause you can't starve us out
    And you can't make us run
    We'll survive in the millenium

    We say grace
    And we say ma'am
    If you ain't into that we don't give a damn

    We're from north california
    And south alabam'
    And little towns all around this land
    If the bank machine's crash
    We'll be just fine
    And a country boy can survive

    Country folks can survive
    Country boy can survive
    Country folks can survive
    [any year, anytime]

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    I am sooooo sick of lawyers being the target of rising medical costs. Everyone here does know that the Judgments are awarded by the juries, and are approved by the Judges that rule over the cases. If the judgments granted were too high, the Judge could overrule them. The Judge and juries are the root fault of high judgments, the lawyers just state the facts and bring the cases, which are the rights of each and every individual. Law makers are the ones that should put caps on these jury verdict awards, and also CAP THE PREMIUM COSTS OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie
    I am sooooo sick of lawyers being the target of rising medical costs. Everyone here does know that the Judgments are awarded by the juries, and are approved by the Judges that rule over the cases. If the judgments granted were too high, the Judge could overrule them. The Judge and juries are the root fault of high judgments, the lawyers just state the facts and bring the cases, which are the rights of each and every individual. Law makers are the ones that should put caps on these jury verdict awards, and also CAP THE PREMIUM COSTS OF THE INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!!
    The real problem is that the lawyers get a huge part of settlements, so they are motivated by personal greed to go for the highest amount that they can. Over the Christmas break I went to a car show, and I asked where all the cars came from. A guy working there said they belonged to the lawyer who won the case against silicone breast implants. The guy won tons of money because women whose silicone breast implants had burst were claiming they were causing medical problems. Fast forward to present time. Silicone breast implants are reapproved because silicone is NON TOXIC and is LEAST likely of all substances to cause problems with the patient. Experts knew this even back when that case was decided, but due to the utter greed fot the lawyers and ignorance of the public, this wasn't taken into account. Someone should take all the money back that those lawyers made and give it back to the people that EARNED it. The court system does not work like a market system.

    In Texas, we have capped non physical awards to $250k, yet our insurance premiums still continue to increase. There are a lot of reasons why insurance is costly, it has to do with the inefficiency of our healthcare system, the oligopoly of the insurance companies, and partially due to settlements. From what I remember, malpractice settlements only account for a fairly small amount. On the other hand, malpractice insurance can be insane in many specialties (OBGYN).

    Of course, I can confidently say that if you have the money to buy it, you can get the best healthcare in the world here in the US. Do we have the best healthcare system? I don't think so, but that's a different issue.

  11. #11
    Staff Emeritus Julie's Avatar
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    And if lawyers would not have brought these mutilators to court, there would be many more women walking around with deformed breasts to live with the rest of their lives. The silicone companies paid big bucks to keep from being prosecuted, and in turn, approved their procedure. Lawyers made that happen, where no one else could or would. If you take lawyers out of a capitalistic society, everyone will literally be screwed. Believe me, I worked in the legal system for 15 years......you would never believe the things people are capable of, unless you see it for yourself. I did.

  12. #12
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    To fix it the price gouging of the lawyers, insurance, and medical fields must be brought under control.
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

  13. #13

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    I regret Hari Om's tone in the original post - it is a significant achievement to be able to offer quality medical services - it's also a great business opportunity because the need is great and quality services so limited; people think nothing of the air ambulance services that dot the gulf and eAST aSIA, and so many travel to cyprus and would if they could travel to Israel, to seek medical service.
    _____________________

    when they make no laws but what they themselves and their posterity must be subject to; when they can give no money, but what they must pay their share of; when they can do no mischief, but what must fall upon their own heads in common with their countrymen; their principals may expect then good laws, little mischief, and much frugality

  14. #14
    Banned jon_j_rambo's Avatar
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    @Julie --- You are partially correct, Judges & Juries are also to blame. 99% of Judges were former lawyers, they are to blame too. Lets blame politicians, somebody is to blame (contrary to Howard Jones,"No One is to Blame").

    Far as juries, the lawyers twist and manipulate them, because the juries are idiots. What person with a life really has time to serve jury duty? If I did, I'd get whacked at my job (or fall way behind).

    Ever since the O.J. trial, I could careless about the judicial system, it's a joke. O.J. butchered two people with a knife, & he walks. Might as well empty all the jails.

    The jury selection determines the outcome of the trial, the battle is fought at the selection. You think I'll ever get on a jury, I'll NEVER BE PICKED! Lawyers hate independent, fundamental, Bible Believing Baptist, members of the NRA, Republicans, God Fearing, Capitalists, who think for themselves based on facts!

  15. #15
    Contributor barrowaj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie
    And if lawyers would not have brought these mutilators to court, there would be many more women walking around with deformed breasts to live with the rest of their lives. The silicone companies paid big bucks to keep from being prosecuted, and in turn, approved their procedure. Lawyers made that happen, where no one else could or would. If you take lawyers out of a capitalistic society, everyone will literally be screwed. Believe me, I worked in the legal system for 15 years......you would never believe the things people are capable of, unless you see it for yourself. I did.
    Mutilators? What? The patients *elected* to go for the surgery, and were explained the risks. Its not like the plastic surgeons forced the surgery on anyone. The reason why we are now using silicone again is because it is safe.

    I'm not advocating getting rid of lawyers, just changing the system so it works more like a market, and less like winning the lottery. Why should you and I have to pay for this sleazy lying lawyer's car collection?

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