Thread: Natural Gas for Cars in US Cities

When stumbling acroos the CIA factbook I found out that the USA has huge natural gas reserves.

In Australia, the government gives a rebate if you convert your car to a LPG gas tank (natural gas). I was wondering if in the US, there is also "promotion" of natural gas to run cars? Or is the main emphasis in the US on ethanol and/or hybrid electricity.

IMO, I would think the people who live in the cities would benefit most from LPG run cars because they generally travel the least distance to work. What do you think?

Yes, I know you get roughly half the fuel efficency to petrol so this is not a economical solution for the trucks that distribute goods to retail and grocery stores across the US but for short distances in cities it is a good solution dont you think?

Remember that 1KG of LPG is 2 litres of LPG. When quoting mileage many magazines conveniently quote 12 km per litre for petrol and 13 kmkg that is actually 6.5 km per litre for LPG. One magazine also quoted the price of LPG as 22 Rs (Rupees) per kg - it is actually close to 28 Rs per litre.

Do you think it is a viable solution for Americans to gain energy independency and save money? Is it a viable solution for energy independance and not having the economy so affected by high oil prices?

Also, natural gas is relatively cheaper than petrol in certain circumstances but does anyone know if, say, 10% of the US population adopted LPG cars, what would happen to the price of natural gas? Would it drive up the price substantially, like how increasing Ethanol production has affected grain prices playing a role in affecting food prices in developing countries. Also high natural gas prices would send even higher profits to Russia and Ukraine etc and annoy alot of Europeans, among others.

This is some info taken from an Australian company that converts cars to natural gas, so its in Australian dollars and may not be so objective but gives some info on the pros and cons of LPG (also do Americans call natural gas LPG? ) :

What are the advantages?


-The cost per litre of Autogas is less than petrol at the present time.
-On most dual fuel conversions, the fuel range of the vehicle is increased, provided petrol and gas tanks are full.
-Gas burns cleaner than petrol, which in turn keeps the spark plugs and combustion chambers relatively free of carbon deposits.
-A reduction in engine wear in some areas is normally expected, particularly during cold starting because Autogas does not wash lubricating oil from the cylinder wall. However there can be accelerated wear in the valve seat area in some engines. Oil looks clean longer but don’t be misled by its condition - continue to change your oil at normal service schedule intervals.
-Fuel theft is reduced because Autogas is much more difficult to remove from the cylinder than it is to siphon petrol from a tank.

What are the disadvantages?


-The cost of installation has to be recovered before savings are made.
-On small cars and certain station wagons, the loss of luggage space due to cylinder size can be quite substantial, with the cylinder encroaching well into the luggage area.
-Other vehicles sometimes require relocation of the spare wheel due to the cylinder being fitted in the spare wheel carrier area underneath.
-Potential valve seat recession problems when used in some engines.
-Most engines suffer a slight loss of performance when converted to Autogas. This is mainly due to the compromises needed to use gas in an engine originally designed for petrol.
-Autogas conversions can use up to 30% more fuel, litre for litre, compared to petrol. Incorrect tuning can drastically increase consumption.
-Specialised technicians are recommended to carry out maintenance on Autogas installations, which may increase servicing costs of the Autogas system.
-When running problems become evident in the engine, the vehicle may need attention by a normal service centre and also by an Autogas technician.
-Cylinder inspection and testing is required after ten years. The expiry date is stamped onto the cylinder. This service averages around $130 to $300, which does not include the labour associated with the removal and replacement of the tank. These tests will determine the remaining life expectancy of the cylinder and related pressure control valves.
-Recent testing indicates Autogas fuelled vehicles have no cleaner exhaust emissions than late model petrol fuelled vehicles.

What will it cost me?

Installation costs are averaging around $2,500 to $4,000, depending on which style of system is fitted i.e. basic vapour mixer or sequential injection, respectively. Petrol is currently priced around $1.35 per litre compared to Autogas, which is approximately 65 cents per litre. However, you generally use more litres of Autogas against litres of petrol. Car maintenance costs may be higher because a licensed installer or repairer must carry out servicing of the Autogas equipment.

If you have the patience to try to understand the formulas in this quoteyou can work out the fuel economy. But in Oz, LPG= $0.65/ltr Petrol= $1.4/ltr

Here’s a typical example based on average fuel prices for February 2006:

(a) Distance travelled per year = 30,000 km
(b) Petrol consumption = 13 litres/100km
(c) Petrol price = $1.40/litre
(d) LPG consumption* = 16.9 litres/100km
(e) LPG price = $0.65/litre
The steps to determine your savings are:

ANNUAL PETROL COST
= Petrol Consumption (litres) x Petrol Cost (per litre)
= a / b x c
= (30,000km / 100 x 13 litres) x $1.40
= $5,460 per year

ANNUAL LPG COST
= LPG Consumption (litres) x LPG Cost (per litre)
= a / d x e
= (30,000km / 100 x 16.9 litres) x $0.65
= $3,295 per year

SAVINGS = Annual Petrol Cost - Annual LPG Cost
= $5,460 - $3,295
= $2,165 savings per year
= $41.63 savings per week

LPG Autogas Australia