Story link hereBush, Texas at Odds Over Death Case
By MARK SHERMAN – 16 hours ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — To put it bluntly, Texas wants President Bush to get out of the way of the state's plan to execute a Mexican for the brutal killing of two teenage girls.
Bush, who presided over 152 executions as governor of Texas, wants to halt the execution of Jose Ernesto Medellin in what has become a confusing test of presidential power that the Supreme Court ultimately will sort out.
The president wants to enforce a decision by the International Court of Justice that found the convictions of Medellin and 50 other Mexican-born prisoners violated their rights to legal help as outlined in the 1963 Vienna Convention.
That is the same court Bush has since said he plans to ignore if it makes similar decisions affecting state criminal laws.
"The president does not agree with the ICJ's interpretation of the Vienna Convention," the administration said in arguments filed with the court. This time, though, the U.S. agreed to abide by the international court's decision because ignoring it would harm American interests abroad, the government said.
Texas argues strenuously that neither the international court nor Bush, his Texas ties notwithstanding, has any say in Medellin's case.
Ted Cruz, the Texas solicitor general, said the administration's position would "allow the president to set aside any state law the president believes is inconvenient to international comity."
The Supreme Court will hear arguments in the case Wednesday.
Medellin was born in Mexico but spent much of his childhood in the United States. He was 18 in June 1993, when he and other members of the Black and Whites gang in Houston encountered Jennifer Ertman and Elizabeth Pena on a railroad trestle as the girls were taking a shortcut home.
Ertman, 14, and Pena, 16, were gang-raped and strangled. Their bodies were found four days later.
Medellin was arrested a few days after the killings. He was told he had a right to remain silent and have a lawyer present, but the police did not tell him that he could request assistance from the Mexican consulate under the 1963 treaty.
Medellin gave a written confession. He was convicted of murder in the course of a sexual assault, a capital offense in Texas. A judge sentenced him to death in October 1994.
Medellin did not raise the lack of assistance from Mexican diplomats during his trial or sentencing. When he did claim his rights had been violated, Texas and federal courts turned him down because he had not objected at his trial.
Then, in 2003, Mexico sued the United States in the International Court of Justice in The Hague on behalf of Medellin and 50 other Mexicans on death row in the U.S. who also had been denied access to their country's diplomats following their arrests.
Mexico has no death penalty. Mexico and other opponents of capital punishment have sought to use the court, also known as the World Court, to fight for foreigners facing execution in the U.S.
The international court ruled for Mexico in 2004, saying the sentences and convictions should be reviewed by U.S. courts.
Medellin's case was rejected by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. The Supreme Court agreed to hear his appeal. While it was pending in Washington, Bush issued a memo to his attorney general declaring that state courts must enforce the international court's ruling.
Two weeks after the memo, Bush said the U.S. was withdrawing from an international accord that lets the world court have the final say when citizens claim they were illegally denied access to their diplomats when they are jailed abroad.
The treaty had been used by the United States in its lawsuit against Iran for taking Americans hostages in 1979.
The Supreme Court weighed in next, dismissing Medellin's case while state courts reviewed Bush's order. Texas courts again ruled against Medellin, saying Bush overstepped his authority by intruding into the affairs of the independent judiciary.
In April, the Surpeme Court stepped in for a second time, putting Bush and the state he governed on opposite sides and setting up an unusual alliance of interests.
Foreign inmates on death rows in California, Florida, Texas and up to a dozen other states could be affected by the outcome.
Four of Medellin's fellow gang members also received the death penalty and one, Sean O'Brien, was executed last year. Two others had their death sentences commuted to life in prison in 2005 when the Supreme Court barred executions for those who were age 17 at the time of their crimes. Another defendant does not have an execution date.
A sixth participant, Medellin's brother, Vernancio, was 14 at the time. He was tried as a juvenile and is serving 40 years in prison.
Ertman's parents said they want to see the older Medellin brother put to death, pointing out in court papers that his case has been going on longer than their daughter lived.
The case is Medellin v. Texas, 06-984.
Article VI of the constitution says. "The constitution, and all laws made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made under the authority of the United States shall be the supreme law of the land."* So, Bush may technically be correct. Though I doubt his motives.
On the other hand, the US Senate never ratified our accepting ICJ jurisdiction.
What does everyone think?
*(I took that from memory so it may be off a little.)
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
- Thomas Jefferson
"Would harm American interest abroad"What about the interest of the two Americans, in America, murdered by these Scum?. Why are American relatives paying for these Scum to stay in American prisons whilst their American daughters are buried on American soil? For the interest of America put these Scum in an American Gas chamber, or whatever method they use.. and ICJ be damned
US does not recognise ICJ.
It is above all.
I wonder why the rest of the world has to accept the UN or ICJ or any international bodies.
They are mere instruments to browbeat the weak!
This is, of course, not to say that the guilty should not be punished.
Last edited by Ray; 08 Oct 07, at 12:12.
"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."
I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.
HAKUNA MATATA
I think he was referring to the nonexistent (according to the members of this board anyway) NAU.Originally Posted by dave lukins
"Would harm American interest abroad"
We like to call the authors of these infuriating scenarios liberals. And some internationalist conservatives like President Bush.What about the interest of the two Americans, in America, murdered by these Scum?. Why are American relatives paying for these Scum to stay in American prisons whilst their American daughters are buried on American soil?
Every state uses lethal injection now. Though some give you the choice between that or electrocution. One state has the gas chamber, but they also have lethal injection.For the interest of America put these Scum in an American Gas chamber, or whatever method they use.. and ICJ be damned
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
- Thomas Jefferson
Injection, electrocution or Gas!! give them the lot, just to make sure. Child Killers are not my flavour of the Month
Surely the issue here is whether the US accepts the ICJ ruling or not rather than the emotive aspects of the case
If these people had been Bolivian rather than Mexican would Bush make the same decision? What if they had been Syrian?
Given Bush's record on executions, and fondness for acting unilaterally, what external pressure could mexico (or perhaps simply internal hispanic opinion?) exert that has led to this chance of stance?
This is exactly why the GOP has lost much of its support over the last few years, especially Bush."Would harm American interest abroad"
Most of the GOP base doesn't want an open border policy. Most of the GOP base want to get tough on illegals. Bush refused to do so. McCain refused to do so. That decision is reflected by their sagging ratings.
I wish we can sue all the government offices that refused to enforce or cooperate with immigration authorities to enforce the laws.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
I think a lot has to do with trying to get the Hispanic vote.
And here he is wrong. Most of the hispanics that I know have the same values as me. Trying to stop this execution won't get the GOP any votes. Its the liberal hispanics that he is trying to get to. And it doesn't matter what he, or anyone else in the Republican party does. They are not going to vote for a republican.
The same can be said of liberals of any race. Bush could ratify Kyoto, pardon all death row inmates and raise taxes. Still won't get the liberal vote.
Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?
Bush is putting Republicans heads on the chopping block so close to election time. I wonder why?
Because he's actually a democrat. Look at the way he expanded welfare. Look at how he refused to enforce our border laws.Bush is putting Republicans heads on the chopping block so close to election time. I wonder why?
I also suspect Moveon.org as a republican 5th column within the democratic party.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
I thought this conservative President was doing some pretty damn liberal things…like spending every damn dime in the Treasury, as if he hadn’t already spent it the year before…and by increasing the size of the government, every bit as fast as he had increased the size of the war. Oh, Hell! Bush must be a Democrat!Because he's actually a democrat. Look at the way he expanded welfare. Look at how he refused to enforce our border laws.
I also suspect Moveon.org as a republican 5th column within the democratic party.)
Ron White: "I'm from Texas and in Texas we have the death penalty and we USE it. If you come to Texas and kill somebody, we will kill you back. ..."
Last edited by GAU-8; 09 Oct 07, at 15:07.
this should not be limited to texas, it should be nationwide.
exseption-self defence.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin
Eye for Eye leaves everybody blind.
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
- John Stuart Mill.
So why exactly would Bush be banging the Hispanic drum in this manner? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, given that his political support doesn't come from that community anyway, who is he going to annoy by sticking with his principles?
Is there something that the US is negotiating with Mexico at the moment?
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