Atheists Lose 1, Deists Gain 1

**Julie** · 05 Jan 05,, 21:08

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

"Then you are willfully misunderstanding the meaning of the word atheist."

So what? What the hell do you care how he defines the word?

LOL

**dalem** · 05 Jan 05,, 21:25

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

"Then you are willfully misunderstanding the meaning of the word atheist."

So what? What the hell do you care how he defines the word?

You're right.

After all, all M21Snipers masticate diseased manta ray dong, right?

-dale

**barrowaj** · 06 Jan 05,, 04:16

Originally Posted by Julie

If I had a choice of believing in the negative v. positive, I would first believe in the positive. Secondly, if it is your presumption that God lives "in the walls of your house," no wonder you are leaning toward the negative and relying upon physics. It would take physics to figure how he got into your "walls" in the first place.

Its totally absurd to assume the positive in any situation. This would end up with you beleiving in all kinds of not yet disproved crap.

I wasn't saying that God resides in the walls of my house. I was using that as an example to show how I could come up with any random situation that I choose that is convenient for me, but that can't be verified by anyone else.

And as for atheists in foxholes... I'm sure that plenty of atheists have died in foxholes. I've read that 75% of people in the Soviet Union were atheists even if you asked them unofficially. In current day Russia atheism is still very prevalent.

If I found myself in a foxhole, I would hope that the good training of my fellow soldiers and I, along with trusting the insight of my commanders would help deliver me from there unharmed. I wouldn't suddenly begin beleiving in divine intervention.

**Officer of Engineers** · 06 Jan 05,, 05:38

Originally Posted by dalem

Then you are willfully misunderstanding the meaning of the word atheist.

-dale

Did I?

The question, sir, is of Faith. Do you have Faith that you will survive a firefight?

**Officer of Engineers** · 06 Jan 05,, 05:48

Originally Posted by barrowaj

If I found myself in a foxhole, I would hope that the good training of my fellow soldiers and I, along with trusting the insight of my commanders would help deliver me from there unharmed. I wouldn't suddenly begin beleiving in divine intervention.

You're not getting it. Whatever faith you have is exactly that - Faith. All it takes is one bullet. Why should it be not you who takes that bullet instead one of your comrades?

And I am NOT delivering you from there unharmed. In fact, the complete opposite. I am delivering you into harm's way. I expect and demand that you face every bullet coming your way. I will take complete responsibility for putting you there but be adviced, I will put you there.

I wish and do expect my people to take confidence in their training but that does not mean that I am unwilling to risk their lives.

And you still do not understand. It's not the 1st bullet, nor the second, nor the third that you be asking divine intervention for. It's the 1000th, 2000th, and 10,000th bullet. It's called the bullet with your name on it. What that means is that only one bullet will kill you. The rest are merely an annoyance. After a while, you start ignoring the annoyance ... and that's when the bullet with your name on it gets you.

Divine intervention? Call it what you will but we call it, when it's your time, it's your time. And there's no rhyme nor reason why it's your time and there is no way for you to explain it.

**Ray** · 06 Jan 05,, 06:14

Colonel,

That post was very well put.

It sort of gripped me and reminded me of my days up there in 1971, the Line of Control, twice in Kargil (including the last one) and the LICO in Kashmir.

I don't believe in organised religion or the the orthodox concept of God. But, by Jove, when the bullets were flying thick and fast, I did think of the Creator to deliver my men and me safe from the fighting that was raging. Yessir, I did.

I have been hit in such fighting, but I have always been delivered from death. The Creator is kind. Many of my colleagues were not that lucky! I grieve for them.

Once has to face the bullets to realise, what's up and who saves you.

Without training, you are dead meat. With training, your chances improve. Thats's about all.

**Officer of Engineers** · 06 Jan 05,, 06:25

Sir,

I have not been hit but I've been stabbed and but for the Grace of God, I lived.

I do not want to impose my beliefs on anyone but God gave me comfort when I needed it.

And this is a point, non-military will not understand. I live while my enemy dies. For me, a father, a husband, a son to live, another father, husband, and son had to die. I cannot and will not ask for forgiveness for doing what needs to be done. But I do ask for God's understanding.

**Ray** · 06 Jan 05,, 06:40

Stabbed?

That is a new one.

How?

**dalem** · 06 Jan 05,, 07:24

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Did I?

The question, sir, is of Faith. Do you have Faith that you will survive a firefight?

Of course not.

-dale

**dalem** · 06 Jan 05,, 07:27

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Sir,

I have not been hit but I've been stabbed and but for the Grace of God, I lived.

I do not want to impose my beliefs on anyone but God gave me comfort when I needed it.

And this is a point, non-military will not understand. I live while my enemy dies. For me, a father, a husband, a son to live, another father, husband, and son had to die. I cannot and will not ask for forgiveness for doing what needs to be done. But I do ask for God's understanding.

OE-

I must admit that I have truly lost your point.

Bottom line is that in your world view there is room for a deity, and in mine there is not. End of story.

-dale

**Bill** · 06 Jan 05,, 10:46

"After all, all M21Snipers masticate diseased manta ray dong, right?"

Huh?

**Bill** · 06 Jan 05,, 10:49

I never found the bullet with my name on it. They were all of the annoyance variety.

**Ray** · 06 Jan 05,, 13:22

Colonel,

By hit, I meant hit by enemy bullets.

**Officer of Engineers** · 06 Jan 05,, 13:54

Originally Posted by Ray

Stabbed?

That is a new one.

How?

Stupidity, Sir. Was in Cyperus, got into an arguement with a Turkish Colonel. Started bumping chests and being extremely agreesive. His Cpl thought I was going to jung fu him. Came up behind me, swung me around and put a blade under my flak jacket. The last thing I remember was that I was plummelling the Cpl on the ground.

Woke up in the infirmary two days later. They told me that it took two of my guys and the Col to pull me off the Cpl ... and the Turk outweighed me by 70lbs.

Originally Posted by dalem

Of course not.

Then, you do not understand the situation.

Originally Posted by dalem

I must admit that I have truly lost your point.

You never had someone died because it was your responsibility.

Originally Posted by dalem

Bottom line is that in your world view there is room for a deity, and in mine there is not. End of story.

I need Faith in my life. I need Faith in my Brothers-In-Arms, in my Chain-of-Command, in my and my country's morality because what we do is the worst of man-kind and I have to believe that we do it for the right reasons.

**dalem** · 06 Jan 05,, 17:39

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

"After all, all M21Snipers masticate diseased manta ray dong, right?"

Huh?

Well, above you didn't see the accepted definitions of words as very important. So I typed some words for you. Clearly the fact that they don't mean what the dictionaries say they mean is no big deal, yes?

-dale