Thread: Scientists call for wider search for alien life

I believe that if there is life out there, that it would more than likely be strikingly similar to us.

The reason I say this, is because I believe that the Universe runs at a constant.

Take Mars for example.. Mars just like earth, has polar ice caps, great canyons created from erosion, and we are now learning that at one time great oceans once covered the planet.

It is safe to assume, that on the shores of those planets you would find ripples in the sand, just as you do hear on earth. And just like earth, you would find waves on those oceans. Also, just like with earths oceans, you would have found different climates, and weather patterns all generated by the Oceans and currents. Those ancient oceans due to some unknown force, dried up and are now locked in ice at the poles. Eventually the very same thing will eventually happen to earth.

These are Laws, that run true throughout the entire Universe.

But the question remains, how does life take hold? Where do we look to find life?

I believe that life is a very rare occurance, like two bullets hitting each other mid air. It is possible, but for all the ingredient's to be in place and for no huge catastrophic event to interfere with the process is like a one in a billion chance.

I believe that the odds of us humans finding life, simple life, is far greater than finding intelligent life.

Originally Posted by Canmoore

I believe that if there is life out there, that it would more than likely be strikingly similar to us.

The reason I say this, is because I believe that the Universe runs at a constant.

Take Mars for example.. Mars just like earth, has polar ice caps, great canyons created from erosion, and we are now learning that at one time great oceans once covered the planet.

It is safe to assume, that on the shores of those planets you would find ripples in the sand, just as you do hear on earth. And just like earth, you would find waves on those oceans. Also, just like with earths oceans, you would have found different climates, and weather patterns all generated by the Oceans and currents. Those ancient oceans due to some unknown force, dried up and are now locked in ice at the poles. Eventually the very same thing will eventually happen to earth.

Mars and Earth (and Venus) are similar in that they are all "rocky" planets with relatively high densities, have had active molten cores, and are far enough away from the Sun to maintain atmospheres, but their histories are very different. Of the three only we have a still-active tectonic process and active core, which gives us a strong magnetic field, for instance.

Their early histories however, were probably very similar, which is your point, I believe. Since the evidence seems to show that life here on Earth emerged as soon as the surface cooled, it is safe to assume that similar things would have happened to our sister planets, and might be happening right now on Titan, etc. I think we'll find early monokaryotic fossils in the sediments of Mars when we go there - maybe Stromatolite-like-things for instance. No need to go even as far as Titan yet, or look for "weird" stuff.

These are Laws, that run true throughout the entire Universe.

But the question remains, how does life take hold? Where do we look to find life?

I believe that life is a very rare occurance, like two bullets hitting each other mid air. It is possible, but for all the ingredient's to be in place and for no huge catastrophic event to interfere with the process is like a one in a billion chance.

I believe that the odds of us humans finding life, simple life, is far greater than finding intelligent life.

We have no way of knowing how rare "life" is. Right now we have a sample set of one, and as I point out above, it appears that life was pretty easy in our case - add the right amount of goop, water, time and energy and ZAP!, pretty soon you have ramjets and farm subsidies.

So it's hard to say.

-dale

Alien life is easy to find. Just look at some of the bills Congress puts forth and you know that they couldn't have been written by a human being.

Seriously though, I think there is intelligent life in other parts of the Universe with some in our own Galaxy. But not as many as Carl Sagan or Star Trek envisioned.

The very delicate balance of planet Earth orbiting just the right kind of star, at just the right distance, just the right size, just the right axial wobble for season changes, with just the right chemical composition to support life narrows down the possibilities tremendously.

Personally, I think WE are the aliens. Anthropologists say we are all descendant from the Cro-Magnon race (regardless of what races we are today). The Cro-Magnon suddenly appeared and the Neanderthal faded out a few thousand years later. What DNA testing that could be done on Neanderthal fossils so far has shown that we are not related at all to them.

Therefore, where did we come from? Please, no Von-Daniken right now. Just think about it. An alien space craft lands on Earth 200,000 years ago packed with people escaping their own dying planet. They will have to revert to survival methods and re-adapt living without their technology as that space craft eventually will decompose. So, Captain Adam and Executive Officer Eve send the people off to inhabit the planet.

Originally Posted by dalem

We have no way of knowing how rare "life" is. Right now we have a sample set of one, and as I point out above, it appears that life was pretty easy in our case - add the right amount of goop, water, time and energy and ZAP!, pretty soon you have ramjets and farm subsidies.

So it's hard to say.

-dale

I wouldnt say that life was easy in our case. As the saying goes, all the stars were aligned, and life happened. I am sure that there are many many planets like Earth and Mars that could have supported life, but something might have happened that stopped life in its tracks. such as a meteorite striking the planet, a massive solar flare emitted from the sun, or a large volcanoe that emitted enough debris into the atmosphere that it blocked the sun..

Seeing as how resilient life appears to be on earth, I think that life in its infancy, when it is first getting started is probably extremely delicate. The smallest of deviations in global conditions could upset the entire process.

All you have to do is sit by the Rio Grande and you'll see plenty of alien life.:

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

Seriously though, I think there is intelligent life in other parts of the Universe with some in our own Galaxy. But not as many as Carl Sagan or Star Trek envisioned.

The very delicate balance of planet Earth orbiting just the right kind of star, at just the right distance, just the right size, just the right axial wobble for season changes, with just the right chemical composition to support life narrows down the possibilities tremendously.

You're Terramorphizing. Seasons are not critical (although they are nice), and our life is "balanced" for this planet in this biozone because that's our biozone. It's like being surprised that one's legs are long enough to reach the ground.

The way I sum it up is that "We are what we is cuz we growed where we grew."

Personally, I think WE are the aliens. Anthropologists say we are all descendant from the Cro-Magnon race (regardless of what races we are today). The Cro-Magnon suddenly appeared and the Neanderthal faded out a few thousand years later. What DNA testing that could be done on Neanderthal fossils so far has shown that we are not related at all to them.

Therefore, where did we come from? Please, no Von-Daniken right now. Just think about it. An alien space craft lands on Earth 200,000 years ago packed with people escaping their own dying planet. They will have to revert to survival methods and re-adapt living without their technology as that space craft eventually will decompose. So, Captain Adam and Executive Officer Eve send the people off to inhabit the planet.

Bah humbug.

-dale

Originally Posted by Canmoore

I wouldnt say that life was easy in our case. As the saying goes, all the stars were aligned, and life happened. I am sure that there are many many planets like Earth and Mars that could have supported life, but something might have happened that stopped life in its tracks. such as a meteorite striking the planet, a massive solar flare emitted from the sun, or a large volcanoe that emitted enough debris into the atmosphere that it blocked the sun..

The planet and biosphere has endured many such shocks, repeatedly, over the last 3.8 billion years (the presumed time of a solid surface forming), and life continued to toot along just fine.

Seeing as how resilient life appears to be on earth, I think that life in its infancy, when it is first getting started is probably extremely delicate. The smallest of deviations in global conditions could upset the entire process.

Your conclusion is illogical. Resiliency now in no way implies delicacy early on.

-dale

Originally Posted by dalem

The planet and biosphere has endured many such shocks, repeatedly, over the last 3.8 billion years (the presumed time of a solid surface forming), and life continued to toot along just fine.



Your conclusion is illogical. Resiliency now in no way implies delicacy early on.

-dale

How do you figure?

When life is first starting to get a foothold, all it would have taken was a meteorite to hit the earth, and wipe out life in its infancy. Yes, life on earth has endured much, but that is because life has already established itself.

Look at a Human Being, we are such an intelligent, resilient and adaptable organism. Yet look at how delicate and fragile a Human fetus and infant is.

In everything in life, it is more difficult to start up something, than it is to keep it going. This is just another example of constants that can be found everywhere in the Universe.

SETI, that thing were scientists waste people's time and money on a pointless exercise to satisfy their own curiosity. It's gotta be so far away that they'd never hear back from it within their own life-time. It's also very unlikely that there are alien civilizations that are at a similar level of technological developement anywhere near us. On top of that, there's the issue that they may simply not be listening. Or they may deliberately chose to avoid letting anything know they are there. On top of that... they may well be so utterly unimaginabely different to us that there is no possibility of us ever establishing a dialogue with them anyway. Even swapping equations requires them to have something similar to our concept of mathematics and numbers.
So, unless we can make physical contact, there's no point.

Conducting far-sighted theoretical studies into space-travel and habitation? Yeah. Searching for NEOs? Yeah. Learning about our solar system? OK. Waiting until we have at least established a state where everyone is able to meet their own survival needs? Priority number one. Searching for life in some remote corner of the universe that we in all probability never hear back from, nor be able to say anything meaningful to? No, get a job.

Originally Posted by Canmoore

How do you figure?

When life is first starting to get a foothold, all it would have taken was a meteorite to hit the earth, and wipe out life in its infancy. Yes, life on earth has endured much, but that is because life has already established itself.

Look at a Human Being, we are such an intelligent, resilient and adaptable organism. Yet look at how delicate and fragile a Human fetus and infant is.

In everything in life, it is more difficult to start up something, than it is to keep it going. This is just another example of constants that can be found everywhere in the Universe.

Like I said, illogical.

You cannot know, and neither can I, how "easy" it was for life to start on this planet more than 3 billion years ago. We don't even know where it started. The "pool of goo" theory was a fine fit for a while - goo plus lightning and Shazam - amino acids. Then the underwater "smokers" were discovered and it is now (last I read) "deep sea vents + proto organics + released heat and Shazam - amino acids". Even the "organics from meteorites" theory, which I think is a particularly stupid and weak theory, cannot be dismissed utterly at this point. Tomorrow someone may develop and put forward a plausible theory involving "snow + vulcanism + cosmic rays".

Maybe some such conditions were common, maybe some were not. Either way you have no basis for claiming it was "hard" or "fantastically unlikely". And your claim that nothing is as easy to start as it is to maintain is wrong in the sense you are describing. Put a marble on the edge of a slope and it starts rolling automatically - shallow the grade and it loses momentum or stops completely. The question is a scientific one, not poetic.

-dale

Well, I can see that this thread is getting far too serious and a tad nasty in some respects. So this will be my last comment on Earth's delicate balance.

The wobble IS necessary for BALANCED seasons. When tilted "up" with the northern hemisphere further away from the sun, that is when the Earth is closest to the sun in its elliptical orbit. If it didn't do that wobble it would leave a scorched ring around the continents of nothing but uninhabitable dessert.

If the Earth's wobble didn't tilt back "down" when it is the furthest away from the sun, Canada, British Isles and northern Asia would be an eternal glacier.

Originally Posted by RustyBattleship

If the Earth's wobble didn't tilt back "down" when it is the furthest away from the sun, Canada, British Isles and northern Asia would be an eternal glacier.

That's when global warming would be considered a good thing!

Originally Posted by glyn

That's when global warming would be considered a good thing!

Speak for yourself !

And I'm sorry, I must object to the terming, Anglo-Celtic isles is the term that should be used .