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Thread: Shia's Are Infidels: Top Sunni Cleric

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    Senior Contributor Srirangan's Avatar
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    Post Shia's Are Infidels: Top Sunni Cleric

    An influential cleric of Saudi Arabia’s hardline Sunni school of Islam has denounced Shia Muslims as “infidels” in a new religious edict that comes amid rising sectarian tension in the region.

    “The rejectionists (Shias) in their entirety are the worst of the Islamic nation’s sects. They bear all the characteristics of infidels,” Sheikh Abdel-Rahman al-Barrak said in the fatwa, or ruling, distributed on Islamist websites.

    “They are in truth polytheist infidels, though they hide this,” the fatwa said, citing theological differences 14 centuries after the death of the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), such as reverence of shrines which followers of Saudi Arabia’s Wahhabi school consider abhorrent.

    Concern is growing in Saudi Arabia over Shia-Sunni violence in Iraq which has taken the northern neighbour to the brink of civil war. Sunni-Shia tensions are also high in Lebanon, where Shias are leading efforts to bring down a Sunni-led cabinet.

    “The Sunni and Shias schools of Islam are opposites that can never agree, there can be no coming together,” the fatwa said. Barrak, an independent scholar, has come to be regarded by many as the highest authority for Wahhabi Muslims.

    Clerics of the austere Wahhabi school of Sunni Islam have long dismissed Shias as virtual heretics and Saudi Arabia’s Shia minority complains of second-class treatment. But Barrak’s fatwa was the strongest in recent years.

    The fatwa, which was published on Barrak’s website in response to a follower’s question, also appeared to criticise efforts by some government-backed Saudi preachers at reconciliation between Sunnis and Shias. reuters

    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...-12-2006_pg1_3

    Welcome to the kaffir club!
    I rant, therefore I am.

  2. #2
    Ray
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    To Wahhabis, other Sunnis are also infidels!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    huh?

    Iam also an infidel

    if it helps

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    Senior Contributor Srirangan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    To Wahhabis, other Sunnis are also infidels!
    If most Sunni's too are infidels, phir mussalman bacha koun?
    I rant, therefore I am.

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    Ray
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    The Wahhabi view of Islam asserts that all who do not adhere to its beliefs are infidels, including mainstream Sunni and Shiite Muslims. Wahhabis practice an extreme form of Puritanism; they limit themselves to simple short prayers, worship in undecorated mosques where even the name of the Prophet cannot be inscribed, and refuse to celebrate his birthday. Many Islamic scholars and organizations have published denunciations of Wahhabism as a rigid minority sect intolerant of other forms of Islam. For one such article published by the Islamic Supreme Council of America, see http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org...radicalism.htm .

    There is no true Moslem except the Wahhabis is what they preach!

    The remainder Moslems as per them are kaffirs!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Stupid asses, they'd remain divided while foreigners come in and kill them one by one.

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    Senior Contributor Srirangan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    The Wahhabi view of Islam asserts that all who do not adhere to its beliefs are infidels, including mainstream Sunni and Shiite Muslims. Wahhabis practice an extreme form of Puritanism; they limit themselves to simple short prayers, worship in undecorated mosques where even the name of the Prophet cannot be inscribed, and refuse to celebrate his birthday. Many Islamic scholars and organizations have published denunciations of Wahhabism as a rigid minority sect intolerant of other forms of Islam. For one such article published by the Islamic Supreme Council of America, see http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org...radicalism.htm .

    There is no true Moslem except the Wahhabis is what they preach!

    The remainder Moslems as per them are kaffirs!
    Are these the same guys who proudly claim to be the direct descendants of Mohammad?
    I rant, therefore I am.

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    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srirangan View Post
    Are these the same guys who proudly claim to be the direct descendants of Mohammad?
    No.

    They are followers of Abdul Wahab. A scholar who pointed out all the new things being practiced by Muslims and said that this is not part of Islam.

    I think at first this movement kind of made sense. What is not part of Islam AND against Islam should be pointed out. Like say things like you know how in Pakistan (I think in India too) people goto the graves of old saints or generally pious people and pray to them for miracles...

    He said if you believe in Allah then why ask miracles from dead bodies? At some point it got lost upon the Wahabbis that these were good arguments to win people over through debate but they started forcing these changes.

    This mostly happened in Najd (in Saudi Arabi). The concept, absolutely makes sense, but its implementation is horrible. I mean correction of faith can only happen through constant examination, debate and even reevaluating the re-evaluated ideas. Correction of faith should've been a fluid thing, they made it into a rigid thing.

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    Senior Contributor Srirangan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asim Aquil View Post
    No.

    They are followers of Abdul Wahab. A scholar who pointed out all the new things being practiced by Muslims and said that this is not part of Islam.

    I think at first this movement kind of made sense. What is not part of Islam AND against Islam should be pointed out. Like say things like you know how in Pakistan (I think in India too) people goto the graves of old saints or generally pious people and pray to them for miracles...

    He said if you believe in Allah then why ask miracles from dead bodies? At some point it got lost upon the Wahabbis that these were good arguments to win people over through debate but they started forcing these changes.

    This mostly happened in Najd (in Saudi Arabi). The concept, absolutely makes sense, but its implementation is horrible. I mean correction of faith can only happen through constant examination, debate and even reevaluating the re-evaluated ideas. Correction of faith should've been a fluid thing, they made it into a rigid thing.
    This is why institutionalized/organized religion sucks. Each person should be given freedom to practice as he/she likes. Because faith is something very personal.

    If Mr. XYZ likes to go and pray at the graves of his ancestors, and it gives him solace, comfort and closure, who am I to dictate to him otherwise?
    I rant, therefore I am.

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    Ray
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    In Islam, you cannot revere or love anything. All your reverence and love should only be for Allah.

    That is why there is no picture of the Prophet Mohammed. If there were, then the people would be attracted to this icon and revere and love him and thus divide the power of reverence and love.

    That is why there are no marking on graves of the Wahhabis. If it were, then one would be attached to the graves and memory of their loved ones. Not done in Islam since it is counter to the total reverence required for Allah. That is why the Shab e Barat celebrated by the Moslems is a pagan ritual given religious sheen. And the truth is, who can forsake the love for their departed loved one except heartless inhuman people!

    Islam is not an easy religion to follow. It is a very clinical religion and is very particular of what is right or wrong. There is hardly any leeway. And there is quite a lot of very astoundingly practical explanation of many of the issues. It is a very interesting religion to study. In fact, it excites me and intrigues me to fathom the decrees of the Prophet and reconcile it with the incorrect practices by its followers and their claiming that they are true Moslems!

    In fact, the Wahhabis are closer to the teachings of the Quaran than others. They interpret the Quaran rigidly and to the letter (as they understand, that is).

    Of course, these are my understanding of the Wahhabis and the Quaranic injunctions.
    Last edited by Ray; 30 Dec 06, at 18:49.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Senior Contributor Asim Aquil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    In Islam, you cannot revere or love anything. All your reverence and love should only be for Allah.
    Hmmm no love is mentioned between people everywhere. Love for Allah is emphasized but Islam doesn't go against such basic human nature:

    002.177
    PICKTHAL: It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces to the East and the West; but righteous is he who believeth in Allah and the Last Day and the angels and the Scripture and the prophets; and giveth wealth, for love of Him, to kinsfolk and to orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and to those who ask, and to set slaves free; and observeth proper worship and payeth the poor-due. And those who keep their treaty when they make one, and the patient in tribulation and adversity and time of stress. Such are they who are sincere. Such are the Allah-fearing.
    That is why there is no picture of the Prophet Mohammed. If there were, then the people would be attracted to this icon and revere and love him and thus divide the power of reverence and love.
    That is a special case. The Prophet himself asked the Muslims from ever letting that happen. People were maaad crazy about him. Heck one of the biggest names in Islamic history, the 2nd Khalifah, Umar, went into a state of denial upon hearing of the Prophet's death. He'd fight with people who'd say he's dead, days after. He snapped out of it later...

    That is why there are no marking on graves of the Wahhabis. If it were, then one would be attached to the graves and memory of their loved ones.
    This Wahabbi fixation with the graves does annoy me too. You know I always thought they had a point to all this, but I never believed it should be forced. They can point out, and Muslims should not do so themselves.

    Incidentally they don't let women into Graveyards. Supposedly the dead have some sort of see through vision and they can see the women naked (jibberish I tell you, jibberish). This hit me hard when I lost my 2 month old nephew and he's buried in Sharjah. So the graveyards a place where religion's observed to the letter and till date my cousin sister hasn't visited the grave of her child.

    That's just wrong.

    Islam is not an easy religion to follow.
    IsHard :D

    In fact, the Wahhabis are closer to the teachings of the Quaran than others. They interpret the Quaran rigidly and to the letter (as they understand, that is).
    I think they are lost within themselves. In their effort to protect the religion from innovations they are forgetting that re adaptation as new things become known is a part of the religion. Sadly this concept called Ijtihad, a common practice when Islam came about no longer exists under similar notions.

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    Ray
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    Asim,

    The Quaran. Boy, just the Quaran.

    No interpretation by others.

    That is Wahhabism.

    Hence your post is out of context.

    Even the hadith and sunnah is not recognised by the Wahhabis or so I am told. I believe that if the ways of the Prophet is given as the sole guide, it would be revering a man and that is blasphemy.

    But correct me if I have been instructed incorrectly.

    Wahhabis are the pure Islamists.

    The Khalifa who did not believe that the Prophet was dead is not a true Moslem! He had divided loyalties or so it appears. He was enamoured more by a man and not Allah!
    Last edited by Ray; 30 Dec 06, at 19:30.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Senior Contributor kams's Avatar
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    Asim, Ray, Sri,

    Thanks for the info on Wahabi sect.

    This hit me hard when I lost my 2 month old nephew and he's buried in Sharjah. So the graveyards a place where religion's observed to the letter and till date my cousin sister hasn't visited the grave of her child.
    Thats in-human. When I lost my 2 month old daughter, I just marked a place in my garden as hers (WE Hindus cremate so no grave) and I used to spend time there whenever I felt like ..It gave me peace, gave me a place to cry..

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    Ray
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    Asim and Kams,

    My heartfelt condolence to both of you.

    It is heart breaking to lose a loved one and of that there is no doubt.

    May those who you lost rest in peace!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

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    Contributor snc128's Avatar
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    u blame me ,i accuse u.result:NOTHING.
    Personally,i dont give a **** what the others say.i m what i m.and i accept the others the way they r.that s all!

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