Thread: Latest Pentagon Video

Originally Posted by tw-acs

Top Hatter
Gun Grape

I did not say it was not hit by a plane. I don't think it was hit by a 757.

The flight path that the plane took was a very difficult maneuver that would enter the plane into a stall. The degree of complexity and requirement of precision to successfully pilot this manuever does not seem practical for Hani Hanjour.
The damage inflicted on the Pentagon does not seem consistent with the impact of a 757.
The whole in the Pentagon is slightly larger than the fuselage of a 757 however where did the engine wings, vertical and horizontal stabilizers go?

Have a look:

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-hole.html

If the videos have nothing to show then there would be no harm in releasing them.

I had intended this thread to be about the videos and them being release but I got caught in a tangent of was it a plane or not. Quite frankly it does not matter what it was, because it hit the pentagon. Something hitting the pentagon is what is important.

Any video surveillance that could show something should be released to appease the public that still has unanswered questions.

Originally Posted by tw-acs

Any video surveillance that could show something should be released to appease the public that still has unanswered questions.

What are these "unanswered" questions?

-dale

Originally Posted by dalem

What are these "unanswered" questions?

-dale

People who do not requre things like a motive, or evidence, for a government conspiracy to be taking place, still have some questions...

Good column:

Call me crazy. I blame terrorists.

How can 36 per cent of people polled think U.S. officials knew of or participated in 9/11?

MARK STEYN

Who is A. K. Dewdney? He's an adjunct professor of biology at the University of Western Ontario, and he has pieced together the truth about what happened on 9/11. You may be familiar with the official version: "To account for the events of Sept. 11, 2001, the Bush White House has produced a scenario involving Arab hijackers flying large aircraft into American landmarks," writes the eminent Ontario academic. "We, like millions of other 9/11 skeptics, have found this explanation to be inconsistent with the facts of the matter."

Instead, he argues, a mid-air plane switch took place on three of the jets. "The passengers of one of the flights died in an aerial explosion over Shanksville, Pa.," he writes, "and the remaining passengers (and aircraft) were disposed of in the Atlantic Ocean." Most of us swallowed "the Bush-Cheney scenario" because we were unaware that, when two planes are less than half a kilometre apart, they appear as a single blip on the radar screen. Thus, the covert switch. Instead of crashing into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the flights were diverted by FBI agents on board to Harrisburg, Pa., where the passengers from all three planes were herded onto UA Flight 175 and flown on to Cleveland Hopkins and their deaths. By then, unmanned Predator drones had been substituted for the passenger jets and directed into their high-profile targets. The original planes and their passengers were finished off over the Atlantic.





But what about all those phone calls, especially from Flight 93? Ha, scoffs Dewdney. "Cellphone calls made by passengers were highly unlikely to impossible. Flight UA93 was not in the air when most of the alleged calls were made. The calls themselves were all faked." Michel Chossudovsky, of Quebec's Centre for Research on Globalization, agrees: "It was extremely difficult, if not impossible, to place a wireless cell call from an aircraft travelling at high speed above 8,000 feet."

So all the "Let's roll" stuff was cooked up by the government spooks. So, presumably, were the calls from the other planes. Flight 175 passenger Peter Hanson to his father: "Passengers are throwing up and getting sick. The plane is making jerky movements." This at a time when, according to professor Dewdney, Flight 175 was preparing to land smoothly at Harrisburg. Or Flight 11 stewardess Madeline Sweeney: "We are flying very, very low. We are flying way too low. Oh my God, we are way too low." Two minutes later, Flight 11 supposedly crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center -- though, as professor Dewdney has demonstrated, by then the plane wasn't even in the state. These so-called "calls" all used state-of-the art voice modification technology to make family members believe they were talking to loved ones rather than vocally disguised government agents. In the case of Todd Beamer's "Let's roll!" the spooks had gone to the trouble of researching and identifying individual passengers' distinctive conversational expressions.

In the end, says Dewdney, Flight 93 was shot down by a "military-looking all-white aircraft." It was an A-10 Thunderbolt cunningly repainted to . . . well, the professor doesn't provide a rationale for why you'd go to the trouble to paint a military aircraft. But the point is, several eyewitnesses reported seeing a white jet in the vicinity of the Flight 93 Pennsylvania crash site, so naturally conspiracy theorists regard that as supporting evidence that the plane was brought down by the U.S. military rather than after a heroic passenger uprising against their jihadist hijackers. "It was taken out by the North Dakota Air Guard," announced retired army Col. Donn de Grand Pre. "I know the pilot who fired those two missiles to take down 93." It was Maj. Rick Gibney, who destroyed the aircraft with a pair of Sidewinders at precisely 9:58 a.m.

Ooooo-kay. We now turn to a brand-new book edited by David Dunbar and Brad Reagan called Debunking 9/11 Myths: Why Conspiracy Theories Can't Stand Up to the Facts. Brad Reagan? There's a name for conspiracy theorists to ponder, notwithstanding his cover as a "contributing editor" for Popular Mechanics. First things first: Maj. Rick Gibney is a lieutenant-colonel. At 9:58 a.m. he wasn't in Shanksville, Pa., but in Fargo, N.D. At 10:45, he took off for Bozeman, Mont., where he picked up Edward Jacoby, Jr., director of the New York State Emergency Management Office, and flew him back to Albany, N.Y., in a two-seat F-16B, unarmed -- i.e., no Sidewinders. The white plane was not an attractively painted A-10 Thunderbolt but a Dassault Falcon 20 corporate jet belonging to the company that owns Wrangler, North Face and other clothing lines. It was coming into Johnstown, near Shanksville, when Flight 93 disappeared and the FAA radioed to ask them if they could look around. "The plane circled the crash site twice," write Dunbar and Reagan, "and then flew directly over it to mark the exact latitude and longitude on the plane's navigation system."

Just for the record, I believe that a cell of Islamist terrorists led by Mohammed Atta carried out the 9/11 attacks. But that puts me in a fast-shrinking minority. In the fall of 2001, a coast-to-coast survey of Canadian imams found all but two insistent that there was no Muslim involvement in 9/11.

Oh, well. It was just after 9/11, everyone was still in shock.

Five years later, a poll in the United Kingdom found that only 17 per cent of British Muslims believe there was any Arab involvement in 9/11.

Ah, but it's a sensitive issue over there, what with Tony Blair being so close to Bush and all.

Professor Dewdney's plane-swap theory?

Come on, if you already live in Canada, it's not such a leap to live in an alternative universe.

But what are we to make of the Scripps Howard poll taken this month in which 36 per cent of those surveyed thought it "somewhat likely" or "very likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks or had knowledge of them beforehand?

Debunking 9/11 Myths does a grand job of explaining such popular conspiracy-website mainstays as how a 125-foot-wide plane leaves a 16-foot hole in the Pentagon. Answer: it didn't. The 16-foot hole in the Pentagon's Ring C was made by the plane's landing gear. But the problem isn't scientific, it's psychological: if you're prepared to believe that government agents went to the trouble of researching, say, gay rugby player Mark Bingham's family background and vocal characteristics so they could fake cellphone calls back to his mom, then clearly you're not going to be deterred by mere facts. As James B. Meigs, the editor-in-chief of Popular Mechanics, remarks toward the end of this book, the overwhelming nature of the evidence is, to the conspiratorially inclined, only further evidence of a cover-up: "One forum posting that has multiplied across the Internet includes a long list of the physical evidence linking the 19 hijackers to the crime: the rental car left behind at Boston's Logan airport, Mohammed Atta's suitcase, passports recovered at the crash sites, and so on. 'HOW CONVENIENT!' the author notes after each citation. In the heads-I-win-tails-you-lose logic of conspiracism, there is no piece of information that cannot be incorporated into one's pet theory."

When I was on the Rush Limbaugh show a couple of months back, a listener called up to insist that 9/11 was an inside job. I asked him whether that meant Bali and Madrid and London and Istanbul were also inside jobs. Because that's one expensive operation to hide even in the great sucking maw of the federal budget. But the Toronto blogger Kathy Shaidle made a much sharper point:

"I wonder if the nuts even believe what they are saying. Because if something like 9/11 happened in Canada, and I believed with all my heart that, say, Stephen Harper was involved, I don't think I could still live here. I'm not sure I could stop myself from running screaming to another country. How can you believe that your President killed 2,000 people, and in between *****ing about this, just carry on buying your vente latte and so forth?"

Over to you, Col. de Grand Pre, and Charlie Sheen, and Alan Colmes.

The sad reality is that never before has an enemy hidden in such plain sight. Osama bin Laden declared a jihad against America in 1998. Iran's nuclear president vows to wipe Israel off the map. A year before the tube bombings, radical Brit imam Omar Bakri announced that a group of London Islamists are "ready to launch a big operation" on British soil. "We don't make a distinction between civilians and non-civilians, innocents and non-innocents," he added, clarifying the ground rules. "Only between Muslims and unbelievers. And the life of an unbeliever has no value."

Our enemies hang their shingles on Main Street, and a University of Western Ontario professor puts it down to a carefully planned substitution of transponder codes.

Yep. Simplest question I've asked of the conspiracy fooks from the beginning: "Your government just murdered 3000 people - why aren't you taking up arms or heading out?"

I'm beginning to think we NEED to lose a city and have a big messy war just to weed out the dangerous idiots. I HATE thinking like that.

-dale

In this democratic republic, certain freedoms are restricted to protect the well being of each citizen and other freedoms should not be limited to ensure the strength of our governmental system.

Officials come and go with elections. Policies are legislated and outdated. The pendulumn swings back and forth regarding many issues in our country. The history of the governance of our country has many lessons to be taught.

Corruption and desparity are the darkness that plague out society. To overcome hardship; This is my country as much as it is yours. That concept came through the perilous efforts of patriots like Thomas Paine and "Common Sense."

I shall not leave this great United States of America because you choose to excercise your right to freedom of speech. I beseech you to see the necessity of seeking truth and understanding in the tragic events that happened on September 11, 2001.

IT is my implied duty as a U.S. Citizen to Vote. Knowing the issues is just as important as voting. This discussions and the World Affairs Board forum is a media that is specifically designed to talk about things.

"Your government just murdered 3000 people - why aren't you taking up arms or heading out?"

dalem

Education and history have taught me that the most appropriate course of action in the current situation is to be politcally active and knowledgeable about the current events to best shape the country we live in together by expressing our own individual opinioins through the freedom of speech and most importantly voting.

Originally Posted by tw-acs

dalem

Education and history have taught me that the most appropriate course of action in the current situation is to be politcally active and knowledgeable about the current events to best shape the country we live in together by expressing our own individual opinioins through the freedom of speech and most importantly voting.

That's a revealingly weak answer. In your world, your vote merely empowers the system that enables the murderers and power brokers. If they are so powerful and evil as to construct a 9/11 (and I assume a 3/11 and London Tube attack and the Bali bombers) then long before your enlightened and educated voting bloc achieves anything, y'all will be found bludgeoned to death under a highway overpass.

In YOUR America, your every vote is nothing more than another bullet in the tyrant's belt.

So do you really believe that our government, or elements thereof, orchestrated the 9/11 attacks? Yes or No?

-dale

Originally Posted by TopHatter

Oh I quite doubt that. He's been around since the beginning (literally).

That, and I've been placing all newcomers under my Gestapo-style microscope.

He's a high school buddy of mine, and we traveled to Europe together about six and a half years ago.

But I completely disagree with his assessment. I believe the evidence shows that a 757 hit the Pentagon.

Originally Posted by dalem

That's a revealingly weak answer. In your world, your vote merely empowers the system that enables the murderers and power brokers. If they are so powerful and evil as to construct a 9/11 (and I assume a 3/11 and London Tube attack and the Bali bombers) then long before your enlightened and educated voting bloc achieves anything, y'all will be found bludgeoned to death under a highway overpass.

In YOUR America, your every vote is nothing more than another bullet in the tyrant's belt.

So do you really believe that our government, or elements thereof, orchestrated the 9/11 attacks? Yes or No?

-dale

Slam dunk. I love the way he talked about 'his country too' and 'common sense' as an excuse for avoiding the issue.

Dale that last response reeks of fallacy. At least word your response as to not say or imply to say my opinion.
The "Murderers and power brokers"... these are all things you have said; could be better described as a faction. As of now I would suspect they are the faction that has primary influence on the United States government as of now and at least back as far as the catastrophic and catalyzing event that occured on 9/11.

Seriously now are you threatening me

Who is the tyrant? If my vote goes into his belt.

Factions are groups of people that act with unity to accomplish a political and or other goals.

This is not a matter of whether the government did something. That is much too broad and overwhelming to pinpoint the blame of a specific matter on the government. However, I think that a faction that has primary influence on our country or at least holding some partial if not entire responsibility of 9/11 could hold positions within the government.

The whole point of this discussion was to come to a conclusion on that question. As of now the so called facts and stories do not agree with physics and chemistry and that fun science stuff; steel will melt at around 3000 degrees sustained heat, Jet fuel can reach temperatures around 2,500 degrees with sustained fuel. Until a plausible explanation is brought to the table that we can all agree to have happened that is within the laws of physics and thermodynamics this discussion should continue...

I believe the evidence shows an aircraft hitting the pentagon.

What is thermite does anyone know?

Originally Posted by tw-acs

Dale that last response reeks of fallacy.

List them then. We'll discuss them.

At least word your response as to not say or imply to say my opinion.

You're the one who is questioning the truth.

The "Murderers and power brokers"... these are all things you have said; could be better described as a faction. As of now I would suspect they are the faction that has primary influence on the United States government as of now and at least back as far as the catastrophic and catalyzing event that occured on 9/11.

Right, I heard you the first time. In your world our government is being run by people willing and able to murder thousands of Americans to serve their own purposes. My point about the value of your vote in such a world stands.

Seriously now are you threatening me

Of course I'm not. I'm demonstrating the importance of your educated vote in a circumstance such as you described. In such a scenario people willing and able to murder thousands will of course not hesitate to murder a dozen more who are endangering their power base.

Who is the tyrant? If my vote goes into his belt.

In your world it would be the President, or, if in your world the Presidency is a mere figurehead, then I guess it would be some "mover and shaker" behind the scenes.

Factions are groups of people that act with unity to accomplish a political and or other goals.

This is not a matter of whether the government did something. That is much too broad and overwhelming to pinpoint the blame of a specific matter on the government. However, I think that a faction that has primary influence on our country or at least holding some partial if not entire responsibility of 9/11 could hold positions within the government.

But if you've figured it out then surely the professionals in the FBI, the CIA, the Secret Service, NSA, and other intel gathering agencies would have also figured it out by now, yeah? If not, then they're either rampantly incompetant or supportive of this "faction".

The whole point of this discussion was to come to a conclusion on that question. As of now the so called facts and stories do not agree with physics and chemistry and that fun science stuff; steel will melt at around 3000 degrees sustained heat, Jet fuel can reach temperatures around 2,500 degrees with sustained fuel. Until a plausible explanation is brought to the table that we can all agree to have happened that is within the laws of physics and thermodynamics this discussion should continue...

non sequitur. The melting point of steel has nothing to do with whether a plane hit the Pentagon or where all 4 flights disappeared to. The science of the 4 flights has already been done to death by respectable professionals and is not in dispute except by crackpots.

I believe the evidence shows an aircraft hitting the pentagon.

What is thermite does anyone know?

Used in charges intended to burn at high temperature rather than explode.

-dale

Deregistered Aircraft 1 of 1

Aircraft Description
Serial Number 24602 Type Registration Corporation
Manufacturer Name BOEING Certificate Issue Date 05/08/1991
Model 757-223 Mode S Code 52072030
Year Manufacturer 1991 Cancel Date 01/14/2002
Reason for Cancellation Destroyed Exported To


American Airlines Boeing 757-223, registered N644AA, was piloted by Captain Charles Burlingame and First Officer Dave Charlebois; 11SEP2001 Registration: N644AA, Carrier: American Airlines, Fatalities: 64 on board and 125 on ground, Approximate Location: The Pentagon, Washington, D.C., United States

Security camera video

On May 16, 2006, the Department of Defense released filmed footage that was recorded by a security camera of American Airlines Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon, with a plane visible in one frame, as a "thin white blur"[31] and an explosion following.[32] The images were made public in response to a December 2004 Freedom of Information Act request by Judicial Watch.[33] Some still images from the video had previously been released and publicly circulated, but this was the first official release of the full video of the crash.[34] Judicial Watch hoped that the Pentagon security video would dispel conspiracy theories,[35] though David Yancey, whose wife died on the flight, expressed concerns that the video did not show enough detail to "end the talk of a conspiracy".[36]

Giving credibility to these conspiracy theories, Donald Rumsfeld - Secretary of Defense at the time - also mentioned the Pentagon being hit by a missile in an interview with Parade Magazine: "Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center." An official transcription of that interview is still available at the Department of Defense site http://www.defenselink.mil/transcrip...1_t1012pm.html

A nearby Citgo gas station also had security cameras, but this video released on September 15, 2006 did not show the crash.[37][38] as the camera at the Citgo was pointed away from the Pentagon.[39] The Doubletree hotel, located nearby in Crystal City, Virginia, also had a security camera video, and on December 4, 2006 the FBI released the video in response to a freedom of information lawsuit filed by Scott Bingham. "The video is grainy and the focus is soft, but a rapidly-growing tower of smoke is visible in the distance on the upper edge of the frame as the plane crashes into the building."[40][41] No plane can be clearly seen entering the Pentagon since the camera was mounted on a lower point on the Doubletree Hotel and an elevated highway obstructs the view of the Pentagon.[42][43] However, a shape or group of shapes can be seen above the highway, moving from left to right and ending at the explosion point. One of the shapes protruding upward reflects the sunlight in a way which suggests it is metallic, particularly in comparison to the truck moving behind it on the elevated roadway, and could be the tail fin of Flight 77.[44]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...ines_Flight_77

If we are done with conspiracy theories, give me a feasible explanation of how the Twin towers came down? and on the pentagon where is the impact of the Turbines on the pentagon?

Where is the impact of the turbines?

How much gold was kept in the WTC complex and how much was recovered?