Thread: It's important to keep this topic on the boil...

Originally Posted by Aryan

No point in backtracking now. In the other thread, you pointed out several times that eradicating ALL muslims was inevitable.

It seems to me you've got a problem separating radical islam from "regular" islam. I mean you address "me" as an enemy, I'm in no doubt in deciding your views on the average practicing muslim.

And its inevitable because they are inseperable(radical vs regular islam).

I have been completely consistent in this view.

Originally Posted by Aryan

Troung...don't you see? It's much, much easier to whine on about how islam is this big nasty evil religion just waiting to land on every American's head, than to actually look at some of the more real issues that go on in their country.

You've got people in this thread whining about how they don't want their daughters to wear burkhas...WTF? How is that even an issue?

Especially considering my cousin sisters don't wear burkhas, and their American convert daughters would. Put some effort into thinking about who we are before you build up this image in your minds.

Originally Posted by Aryan

I honestly don't know enough to answer that. It could be either, depending on who you listen to, or what you look at.

If that's the case, then you seriously over-estimate Europe's ***** factor.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Especially considering my cousin sisters don't wear burkhas, and their American convert daughters would. Put some effort into thinking about who we are before you build up this image in your minds.

Islam is an insidious force that eats away at a society from the inside, so that really spooks a lot of people. That's where all the burkha crap comes from.

It's a demographics game.

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

I'd say that's exactly what he was saying.

The problem is you see, "radical Islam" is in reality inseperable from "regular Islam".

That presents a dilemma.

"You see" ? How do u know what I believe? (see!)

You have distinguished me from Osama Bin Laden from the word get go, so how're you ever going to know? I personally think it's intellectually simpler for you to assume that, and given the resources you can kill me, and Osama, you probably would. Because its simpler.

Hmmm one would think you'd prefer to use a sniper rifle(specific) than a shot gun (indiscriminate) to take out targets given your name.

bluesman,

What I meant by my posts from the DPW thread was that I still believe that Islam IS reformable, and Dubai is as good an example of that as anywhere you could find. THEY aren't killing anybody; THEY seem to live and let live. Dubya's right about them: we can work together.

However, it is extremely disturbing to me that we go to all the time, trouble, effort and expense to liberate the Afghans (make no mistake, that's exactly what we did), and they use the opportunity to lift themselves out of the filthy mire of fundamentalist mis-rule for WHAT?...to go right back to imprisoning the minds, consciences and souls of free-thinkers that may happen to reject this degraded and inferior brand of voodoo that has such low self-esteem that authors, cartoonists, and men who embrace other (but much, much safer) brands of fairy tales, legends and myths are threatened with violent, nightmarish death.

See, I think there is one way forward out of this time that either ends in a new Dark Age, or that sees an amelioration of the most virulent strain of this ignorant, bigoted and aggressive system of belief that is based on nothing so much as a threat, both in this world AND the next, a threat that doesn't abate, sleep, forgive or forget. The entire culture is one of blind obedience, revenge, conquest and the love of violence and death.

If, as we've been so told by so many, Islam means 'Peace', its practitioners, particularly the scholars (who presumably know what they're talking about, after having studied it for a lifetime) sure have a funny way of showing it.

Here's why I say that if Rahman dies, we should throw off the Bush Doctrine right away, and start rounding up any and all Muslims, and putting them in camps:
Because they will have proven themselves so intolerant, so incapable of living in peace alongside us 'kaffirs', 'dhimmis', 'apostates' and 'infidels', that really, we have no choice, and it's just as Osama always said it was: a war to the death between Islam and all comers.

see, that is where i do not fully comprehend your thought process. you yourself bring up the example of one nation that seems to be doing good (dubai), and here where i'm sitting i can think of one NATO ally that is largely muslim (turkey); we have one muslim nation that we ostensibly liberated from saddam; millions of muslim US citizens, thousands of muslim US servicemembers...

and for the example of rahman (who was let go, incidently) and a bunch of loud-mouth mullahs screaming their heads off in a nation that still remains heavily conservative...

you would basically rip up all semblance of good relations with those above peoples and countries (well, actually kill most of them), you would be willing to rip up the US constitution (the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh amendments) which you swore to defend, and give osama his greatest wish of a world-wide clash? and what would you do with all those muslims in the camps? keep them there till they die of old age, try them all by civil jury, shoot them in the back of the head, move on to poison gas trucks, or more expendiently, gas them all in 'showers'? that would only be logical, because they are all evil right?

a harsh analogy, to be certain, but this is what you are on the verge of advocating.

sgt, i don't understand. you acknowledge that muslims are capable of good and have done good, but at the same time you are willing to do away with every last one of them, innocent or no- and in doing so, unravel the principles of freedom upon which our society is founded- on such a slim example.

sir, your conversations with me and the other people on this board have been gentlemanly and civil (well, mainly i am sure trolls would disagree ) but the direction which you and certain other members seem to be advocating is downright chilling. it smacks of hitler and the worst type of fascism which so many peoples, including americans, died to stop.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

"You see" ? How do u know what I believe? (see!)

I dont have to know what youre thinking, i only have to know what i think youre thinking.

Perception is reality.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

You have distinguished me from Osama Bin Laden from the word get go, so how're you ever going to know? I personally think it's intellectually simpler for you to assume that, and given the resources you can kill me, and Osama, you probably would. Because its simpler.

We'd really rather not have to butcher a good chunk of the world population unless it is percieved to be neccesary.

Originally Posted by Asim Aquil

Hmmm one would think you'd prefer to use a sniper rifle(specific) than a shot gun (indiscriminate) to take out targets given your name.

Give us a target to point a sniper rifle at, i assure you we will use one.

Originally Posted by astralis

bluesman,



see, that is where i do not fully comprehend your thought process. you yourself bring up the example of one nation that seems to be doing good (dubai), and here where i'm sitting i can think of one NATO ally that is largely muslim (turkey); we have one muslim nation that we ostensibly liberated from saddam; millions of muslim US citizens, thousands of muslim US servicemembers...

and for the example of rahman (who was let go, incidently) and a bunch of loud-mouth mullahs screaming their heads off in a nation that still remains heavily conservative...

you would basically rip up all semblance of good relations with those above peoples and countries (well, actually kill most of them), you would be willing to rip up the US constitution (the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh amendments) which you swore to defend, and give osama his greatest wish of a world-wide clash? and what would you do with all those muslims in the camps? keep them there till they die of old age, try them all by civil jury, or more expendiently, gas them all in 'showers'?

a harsh analogy, to be certain, but this is what you are on the verge of advocating.

sgt, i don't understand. you acknowledge that muslims are capable of good and have done good, but at the same time you are willing to do away with every last one of them, innocent or no- and in doing so, unravel the principles of freedom upon which our society is founded- on such a slim example.

Thank you for showing a semblance of sanity on this damned thread!

Originally Posted by astralis

bluesman,



see, that is where i do not fully comprehend your thought process. you yourself bring up the example of one nation that seems to be doing good (dubai), and here where i'm sitting i can think of one NATO ally that is largely muslim (turkey); we have one muslim nation that we ostensibly liberated from saddam; millions of muslim US citizens, thousands of muslim US servicemembers...

and for the example of rahman (who was let go, incidently) and a bunch of loud-mouth mullahs screaming their heads off in a nation that still remains heavily conservative...

you would basically rip up all semblance of good relations with those above peoples and countries (well, actually kill most of them), you would be willing to rip up the US constitution (the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh amendments) which you swore to defend, and give osama his greatest wish of a world-wide clash? and what would you do with all those muslims in the camps? keep them there till they die of old age, try them all by civil jury, shoot them in the back of the head, move on to poison gas trucks, or more expendiently, gas them all in 'showers'? that would only be logical, because they are all evil right?

a harsh analogy, to be certain, but this is what you are on the verge of advocating.

sgt, i don't understand. you acknowledge that muslims are capable of good and have done good, but at the same time you are willing to do away with every last one of them, innocent or no- and in doing so, unravel the principles of freedom upon which our society is founded- on such a slim example.

The answers to all your questions can be found in an extensive study of US history. The Japanese and Native Americans ought to show you that in extreme situations the US is fully capable of doing extreme things, just like all nations seeking survival.

Originally Posted by Sniper

Islam is an insidious force that eats away at a society from the inside, so that really spooks a lot of people. That's where all the burkha crap comes from.

It's a demographics game.

I don't know, I turned out pretty ok.

My parents didn't go through divorce, 30 yrs married. Married only once.

Everyone in my family is at least a college graduate. I'm not unemployed, father's nearing retirement after decades of service, mom's running a business.

No one in my family has ever been arrested, never done drugs.

For fun and some side money, I manage rock band, we've 3 music videos too now and is on air every other day on satelite tv. Infact a a concert begins in 3 hours from now.

My extended family. Pretty close with 2 cousin sisters, who're happily married with kids. One's a housewife and the other's painter.

That's my Islamic society in brief. What's going on over at yours?

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

I dont have to know what youre thinking, i only have to know what i think youre thinking.

Perception is reality.

So what you're saying is... You're going to beat me up no matter WHAT I do. For being myself.

That also kinda shows that YOU are wrong.

We'd really rather not have to butcher a good chunk of the world population unless it is percieved to be neccesary.

Naah, you'd do it anyway. If you were even thinking about what is necessary this debate wouldn't be happening. You'd do what is simple. My perception.

Give us a target to point a sniper rifle at, i assure you we will use one.

Nawab Akbar Bugti.

you would basically rip up all semblance of good relations with those above peoples and countries (well, actually kill most of them), you would be willing to rip up the US constitution (the first, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh amendments) which you swore to defend, and give osama his greatest wish of a world-wide clash? and what would you do with all those muslims in the camps? keep them there till they die of old age, try them all by civil jury, shoot them in the back of the head, move on to poison gas trucks, or more expendiently, gas them all in 'showers'? that would only be logical, because they are all evil right?

A knee jerk reaction to fear... marching to the terrorists tune... in short with comments like that it is pretty clear that many think we are losing the GWoT...

Give us a target to point a sniper rifle at, i assure you we will use one.

OBL for starters...

m21,

The answers to all your questions can be found in an extensive study of US history. The Japanese and Native Americans ought to show you that in extreme situations the US is fully capable of doing extreme things, just like all nations seeking survival.

yes, nations seeking survival must do desperate things. but one would hope that in a liberal democracy like the US, those things would have some use. i am not sure how the native americans fit into that one...but as for the japanese, an useless, racist effort. that insulted hundreds of thousands of patriotic americans, including the most decorated unit in american military history. that in the end merely hurt the US war effort, what with all the resources wasted on camps, and a disrupted economy.

i would hope that we have learned from that experience.

in any case, it is true that we are fighting for survival, but only in the most broadest sense. the terrorists have yet to stop US military power; the economy grows as normal, with most people just somewhat aware of the terrible war of the night that the US is fighting.

given that it does not seem to be curtains for the US just yet, i would expect a reasoned, methodical response rather than a desperate effort that would besmack of fear.

what did that wuss FDR say? "we have nothing to fear but fear itself."