Neo

THE general perception outside the realm of Islam is that Muslims are at loggerheads with the rest of the world because their religion rejects other religions with disdain renouncing them as superannuated systems of belief. This is contradicted by its Scripture and its Prophet’s deeds and words.

In fact, it is Islam alone which distinguishes itself from other religions so far as respect of previous religions’ apostles and scriptures is concerned. A Jew rejects all scriptures except Torah revealed to Moses. The Christian recognizes the Torah, embracing its moral and ethical teachings but ignoring its prescriptive commands and contents, and rejects all other scriptures except the Gospels of Christ.

But a Muslim has to abide by what the Holy Quran has laid down as an article of faith for him. His holy Book tells him to “Say: We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and his offspring and that which Moses and Jesus received and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them and unto Him we have surrendered. And if they (others) believe like what we believe then they are rightly-guided” (Al-Baqra: 135-36). This article of faith is so important that it has been repeated, with minor verbal difference, in Surah Al-Imran, Ayat 84.

Thus, a Muslim ceases to be a Muslim if he does not believe in the previous scriptures revealed to the prophets with whose names the Arabs who were the first listeners of the Quran, were familiar.

While it is imperative to believe in the scriptures specifically mentioned in the Quran, those ancient scriptures which have not been named therein have not to be rejected out of hand. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) is on record for having directed his followers to “neither accept them nor reject them” (Bukhari’s chapter on Tauhid).

It was in the light of this Quranic edict that the Prophet categorized all citizens of the world as: (a) Muslims (or Mominoon) who believe in the Quran and all other sacred scriptures named in it; (b) People of the Book (Ahl-e-Kitab) who do not recognize the Quran as a divinely-revealed Book but do believe in any of the scriptures named therein. It covers the Jews and the Christians.

Such a classification generated in the Muslim community a sense of tolerance of other faiths even though they did not conceal their hostility to Islam as a religion. It was the teaching of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that made Muslims to adjust themselves with the adherents of other faiths when a large part of the civilized and developed world came under political domination of Islam and which, in course of time, led to the blossoming of pluralistic and progressive societies in Spain, the Middle East, Central Asia, North Africa, India and South East Asia.

This kind of co-existence with other faiths, without compromising the Islamic tenets, is the achievement of political Islam which only a blind and obstinate opponent of this religion will fail to note and admire. The accusation that political Islam acted on the doctrine of ‘conversion’ or ‘the sword’ is false — a canard and a concoction having no historical basis. At best, it is an exaggeration or mis-statement of some isolated incident of high-handed behaviour of a Muslim King or conqueror and not a true instance of Islam’s official policy.

As for the official policy, it will surprise many in the West (and also, to some extent, in our own East) to learn what the Quran lays down. Those Jews and Christians living in Madina during the Prophet’s time, who had not converted to Islam were advised to continue dispensing justice and deciding their legal cases according to their own Books. The following excerpts from the Quran will open the eyes of those who allege that Islam denigrates other rival faiths.

This is how the Quran describes the Jewish Torah: “We did reveal the Torah wherein is guidance and a light by which the prophets judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests judged by such of God’s Scripture” (Al-Maida: 44). And these are the words in which the Christian Gospel is described: “We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps confirming that which was revealed before him, and we bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light... Let the people of the Gospel judge by that which God has revealed therein.” (Maida: 48).

Forced conversion at the point of bayonet is not corroborated by historical facts (distinct from fiction) and is contradicted by Quranic pronouncements on the subject. The following quotation from the Quran will prove the point being debated: “O, Prophet” ask those who have received the scripture (i.e. Jews and Christians) and those who are illiterate (Arabs of the Prophet’s time) whether they accept Islam or not. If they do so, then truly they are rightly guided; and if they turn away then it is your duty only to convey the message, as Allah is the Seer of all His creation” (Aal-e-Imran: 20).

The point to be understood is that Islam does not claim to be the only God-given guidance to mankind or that the guidance available in scriptures of other faiths is fake. All it claims is that it is the last and final heavenly guidance, as it is not likely to be doctored, distorted and amended by human hands as had happened in earlier times with the scriptures of other faiths.

Is this a tall claim? No, firstly, because the Quran was revealed in an age which can be called the threshold of modern age, when writing on papyrus, leather and other material was very much in vogue and means of communicating the written text had developed to such an extent that the sprawling Roman empire had established its writ and firm administration throughout its far-flung areas in Europe, the Byzantium (present Middle East) and North Africa very effectively, thanks to the highly developed communication system.

More so, those in Arabia who received the Quran as Divine guidance were never subjugated, their homeland never overrun by inimical, alien forces and their sacred scripture never desecrated or destroyed as had happened in all other cases. Secondly, unlike the Prophet of Islam with whom the advent of Prophets has been ‘sealed’ for ever without the prospect of further heavenly-guidance to arrive, Prophet Moses of the Jews and Prophet Jesus Christ of the Christians, both of them, had in their lifetime expressed their expectation that God will send yet another Prophet after them.

According to the Old Testament, whose first five books are based on the Jewish Torah, Moses had told the Israelites about the Divine promise to send “a Prophet like himself from among their brethren and will put His words in his mouth and will speak to them all that God shall command him — to him you shall hearken... as he will speak God’s words in God’s name” (Deutronomy: 18: 16-22).

Similarly, according to the New Testament which comprises the various versions of the Gospel (Injeel), Jesus Christ spoke to his disciples thus: “I will pray to the Father and He shall give you another paraolete (helper or comforter) that he may abide with you for ever... When he the spirit of Truth is come, he will guide you into all truth...” (John 14:16 & 16:13).

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Administrator @ Defence.pk

Insomniac

Verses from the Koran:

4:101 "...For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."

4:89 "They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they. But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them."

5:54 "O ye who believe. Take not the Jews and the Christians for you friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."

9:5 "...fight and slay the pagans (Pagan: a term used for anyone that does not believe in God) wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)..."

9:14 "Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame..."

9:29 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day nor hold forbidden which hath been forbidden and his apostles nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (even if they are) people of the book, until they pay the Jizya [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

4:74 "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks, at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond family (on them).... but if it had been God's will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (himself), but (he lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God, he will never let their deeds be lost."

4:95 "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and recieve no hurt and those who strive and fight in the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home)."

And there's plenty more verses that support violence where that came from.

You are contradiction the words of the Quran and the Muslim doctrine itself. There are some peace loving muslims that try to ignore the violence of the Quran or "sit at home" as the Quran describes, but the ones that are going out in the world and blowing themselves up to wage the Jihad (Jihad: Arabic term for a war that is waged for religious purposes) are the true Muslims. Your image of Islam contradicts the Quran itself.

Lunatock

How it must disapoint you that there's billions of "bad Muslims" who are civilised and decent people, and not billions of OBL's trying to bring ruin to the free world.

Insomniac

Who said it disappointed me? I never said "bad muslims" I said "true muslims." Your definition of the words "civilized" and "decent" completely differ from their definition. You can't really tell if a person is true, faking it, or "sitting at home" as the Quran describes it. I don't know who you consider a civilized, decent muslim nor do I know if they are really a muslim or just faking it. All I know is what the Quran says and the true muslims have been and will always follow the doctrine of the Quran. The Jihad bombers are a perfect example of what Islam is all about.

I'd like to ask you have you read any part of the Quran? If so, please tell me what verses speak of peace that involves people outside of the religion if there are any. If not, I really don't care what you have to say.

By the way, what's an OBL?

Shek

Insomniac,

Can you please explain to me why Iraqi Muslims came bearing plates of food and prayers for the soldiers in my battalion who were guarding a canal where two vehicles had rollover into, resulting in the death of three soldiers, with only some heroics of other soldiers preventing that number from being higher. Most specifically stated that they had prayed for the dead soldiers to Allah. Surely, the verses you quoted cannot be the motivation for such sympathy and empathy, can it?

Also, can you explain to me about the concepts of internal and external jihad? of da'wa?

I'm sure I could come up with some more questions, but as a Roman Catholic, I just don't know enough about Islam and would be satisfied for know to have your expert opinion on these matters. Thanks.

__________________
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

Insomniac

I never said I was an expert, don't think of me as one. The Iraqi Muslims are greatful to U.S. soldiers for liberating them from Saddam. Like I said earlier there are peace loving muslims that ignore the verses of violence in the Quran. Not all muslims are Jihadists.

Internal Jihad: Purification of self mind.

External Jihad: Purification of a society (doesn't matter which one).

Note: I have some friends in Iraq, but I have never been to Iraq and I have not experianced anything that you have.

Also what number battalion are you in? Nothing personal, but a lot of people get on here and fake being a soldier for respect. I got fooled not too long ago.

Bulgaroctonus

I will let the Buddha, a man who was meditating more than a millenium before Muhammad even lived, calm your anger. Let your rage pass like the spring rain storm. I have been fighting my own rage recently, and this has helped.

From the Dhammapada, Charlie hit from the top...


Dandavagga - Violence
(verses 129-145)

All tremble at the rod. All fear death. Comparing others with oneself, one should neither strike nor cause to strike.


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All tremble at the rod. Life is dear to all. Comparing others with oneself, one should neither strike nor cause to strike.


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Whoever tries to seek happiness through hurting others, cannot find happiness.


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Whoever tries to seek happiness without hurting others, can find happiness.


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Speak not harshly to anyone. Those thus addressed will retort. Painful, indeed, is vindictive speech. Blows in exchange may bruise you.


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If, like a cracked gong, you silence yourself, you have already attained Nibbana: no vindictiveness will be found in you.


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As with a staff the heardsman drives his cattle to pasture, even so do old age and death drive out the lives of beings.


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So, when a fool does wrong deeds, he does not realize (their evil nature); by his own deeds the stupid man is tormented, like one burnt by fire.


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Whosoever causes pain to the innocent ones will himself suffer quickly from one of the following ten states.

He will get sharp pain or injury of the body, or get serious illness or become mad.

Or punishment by the kind, or being accused of doing wrong or death of relatives or loss of treasures.

Or his house will be struck by lightning or after death, he will be reborn in Hell.


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Neither wandering naked, nor matted locks, nor filth, nor fasting, nor lying on the ground, nor dust, nor ashes, nor striving squatting on the heels, can purify a mortal who has not overcome doubts.


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Though gaily decked, if he should live in peace, (with passions) subdued, (and senses) controlled, certain (of the four Paths of Sainthood), perfectly pure, laying aside the rod (in his relations) towards all living beings a Brahmana indeed is he, and ascetic is he, a Bhikkhu is he.


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Those, who are ashamed to do shameful things, are rare. Such men can be compared to a thoroughbred horse who does not get whipped.


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A man, who practises virtue, who has confidence in what he does, who meditates and who understands the Law, such a man will get rid of suffering as a thoroughbred horse gets rid of being whipped.


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Irrigators lead the waters. Fletchers bend the shafts. Carpenters fashion the wood. The virtuous control themselves.





Osama bin Laden

Shek

Insomniac,

Don't get fooled by violent verses in the Quran. They are certainly there, and have been used to ill effect by OBL and his ilk. However, to just quote them and pronounce it as the only form of true Islam, and then go on to pronounce suicide bombers as a pure form of Islam is ignorant. It has taken centuries of radical interpretations to produce the interpretations that justify individual jihad and suicide bombings.

Islam has it challenges, and certainly there is much work that Muslims need to do to effect their own reformation and overcome the self-destructive interpretations and strains of Islam. It has taken centuries for them to arrive at this point, and it will not be an easy process to reverse the strains of ideological decline. While military force is a necessary part of the equation to suppress the radical elements of Islam, it cannot be the only part or such efforts will fail. The way forward is not to convince non-Muslims that Islam is irreconciably evil, but rather to challenge radical Islamists over how their interpretation is wrong and take Muslims that fail to condem their radical bretheren. Posts from Brigadier Ray are a great example of this.

As far as jihad, the internal jihad is the greater jihad, and the defensive jihad, which is a communal duty if a state is attacked, is the lesser jihad. Your definition of offensive jihad is a radical interpretation, and it is not a universal interpretation.

Lastly, I am currently assigned to the United States Army Student Detachment. If you want to read about the rollover that I was referring to, a Google of the key word "Stryker", "rollover", and "Michael Gilbert" should pull up probably around half a dozen articles or more. Mike was in my Stryker the night of the rollover, and it was my former executive officer whose platoon was securing the site the next morning while we were getting the assets to recover all of our equipment, and whose men were approached by the locals.

Also, do not try to explain away this empathy as pro-American sentiment - Ad Duluiyah is a strong Sunni community with a strong undercurrent of Wahhabism in the vicinity along the Tigris River basin. While it was never confirmed to my knowledge, a British paper reported that some contractors were burned alive in the center of Ad Duluiyah after their convoy had been ambushed - based on the description of the incident, it would have occured within about 500m of where my buddy's platoon was securing the rollover site.

sparten

Insomniac, from your profile, I can see that you are barely 16, which of course excuses your ignorance.

Quoting things completely out of context is no way to show that a piece of work is "evil" or "violent". I could take Mein Kempf and well by taking selected parts completely out of context "prove" that old Adolph was not anti-semetic or that he actually was a Jew. So quoting verses completely out of context, does not prove anything one way or another.

__________________
"Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

Samudra

I have asked for simple things from moslems aboard here.
Recognition that other religions are true and are equally good if not better than Islam.

Vaman

If you need to refer back to a 1200 year old book to decide on how you should live your life today, I dont think that person can really be progressive.

sparten

You will never get that, obvioulsy as a muslim I am going to think that Islam is the best religion; if I thought one was better, I would be a follower of that.

But I would never insult somebody's religion. Yours included.

Samudra

Let me ask you this.
To be qualified to say that Islam is the best religion, should you not be aware of what EVERY other religion is all about ?

Dont take it personally,but lets have an example for the sake of it.

1.How much of Hindu scriptures - both Smriti and Shruti have you read ?

2.Do you know what Vedanta,Dvaita and Advaita are ?

3.Are you aware of most Hindu traditions, beliefs and customs ?

If your answers are in the negative to any of the above three questions then your assertion that you follow Islam because it is the 'best' religion is rooted in blind faith and not reason or education.

May be you should read about all other religions(and thoroughly with correct translations and commentary) before you start declaring that Islam is the best and therefore you follow it ?

Lunatock

I've read through the Quran once already and am working on a second reading. And if you want Surah's that don't condone slaughtering People of the book, here are a few:


Surah 2:190.Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors

This is what is before the verse that says: "Slay them wherever ye find them!".... It doesn't seem so menacing now when put that way; does it?

[Surah 5: verse 32: Anyone who saves one life, it is as if he has saved the whole of mankind and anyone who has killed another person (except in lieu of murder or mischief on earth) it is as if he has killed the whole of mankind.

And if it's hostile passages in religion you wish to focus on, perhaps you'd like these passages from the Old Testament?

And if you wish to read more, it could be possible that the Torah has less than humanitarian passages as well.

Bulgaroctonus

God save us from religion.