InfiniteDreams

Statements like these worry me and even more so because I know your not alone in your thoughts.

This is a war FOR humanity and it's not just the United States to fight. What type of behavior will the human race accept and not accept? That's what this is about. The rest of the world needs to get on board.

Any goverment, nation or organizations that strategically targets civilians and non combatants has got to go. Every war is going to have collateral damage but it is just that collateral damage.

You think US soldiers would go out and kill innocent men, women and children as a general policy. Never in million years unlike those whom we fight against or fight to stop.

Genocide and terrorism are evils that need to be stomped out. If that's a fight against humanity in your book then so be it.

Asim Aquil

That may be the stated objective, but theres a point where we got to ask ourselves, "For how long can the end justify the means?"

No I don't. I'm pretty sure that if any such orders were given, there would've been some amount of mutiny and desertion. However there have been quite a few US soldiers who've started to speak up against the tactics they're being asked to use. That Tsujiru blog I posted up there is run by an ex US marine.

I guess its more of the blatant disregard of basic human rights assuming that everyone caught in Afghanistan or with a beard just has to be a terrorist scum. Since Taliban's fall, we've had numerous people (mostly from Pakistan) released after no charges were proved against them, but they went through severe torture in the meantime. It's not like I'm blaming the US in this, my own government is an equal party to this charge.

I'm all up for attacking terrorists, but something that the human kind has learnt over the years is that everyone deserves a fair trial. Some of them are people like you and me, and got arrested just for being there and could've happened to any of us. Once they're in Guantanamo Bay, I doubt US soldiers would ever even consider the fact that this person might just be innocent. Emotions of the 9/11 attack might play in and psychologically you're all set to find torture agreeable. You cannot save humanity without holding onto what makes us human.

konkerer

People died because of their own stupidity and religious fanaticism.

Flushing a Koran/Bible/Torah down toilet is not reason enough to go riot in the street, destroy public/private property, and kill people.

ZFBoxcar

Konkerer, I totally agree, and here is a column supporting our view:


For this, you riot?

Dennis Prager
National Post

Wednesday, May 18, 2005

Newsweek magazine published a scoop last week. Based on an unnamed source, the magazine informed the world that U.S. interrogators of suspected Islamic terrorists at Guantanamo Bay had flushed pages of the Koran down a toilet.

If this were true, the interrogators would be both morally wrong and stupid. The words of the Koran and the pages on which they are written are considered intrinsically holy to Muslims.

As it happens, it was not true. Newsweek put politics and craving a scoop ahead of truth, not to mention ahead of America's security.

Even if the report were true, the magazine was irresponsible for publishing it. It could have only one effect: inflaming the wrath of hundreds of millions of Muslims against America. And that is what happened. Riots broke out in several Islamic nations, claiming 16 lives.

If an American interrogator of Japanese prisoners desecrated the most sacred Japanese symbols during World War II, it is inconceivable that any American media would have published this information. While American news media were just as interested in scoops in 1944 as they are now, they also had a belief that when America was at war, publishing information injurious to America and especially to its troops was unthinkable.

Such a value is not only not honored by today's news media, the opposite is more likely the case. The mainstream media oppose the war in Iraq and loathe the Bush administration. Whatever weakens the war effort and embarrasses the president raises a news source's prestige among its domestic, and especially foreign, peers.

Newsweek is directly responsible for the deaths of innocents and for damaging America. Still, a word must be said about the rioters. They have desecrated their religion and their holy text far more than the alleged flushers of Koranic pages.

Did any Buddhists riot and murder when the Taliban Muslims blew up the irreplaceable giant Buddhist statues in Afghanistan?

Did any Christians riot and murder when an "artist" produced "Piss Christ" -- a crucifix immersed in a jar of the "artist's" urine? When all Christian services and even the wearing of a cross were banned in Saudi Arabia? When Christians are murdered while at prayer in churches by Muslims in Pakistan?

Have any Jews rioted in all the years since it was revealed that Jordanian Muslims used Jewish tombstones in Old Jerusalem as latrines? Or after Palestinians destroyed Joseph's Tomb in 2000 and set fire to the rebuilt tomb in 2003?

It is quite remarkable that many Muslims believe that an American interrogator flushing pages of the Koran is worthy of rioting, but all the torture, slaughter, terror and mass murder done by Muslims in the name of the Koran are unworthy of even a peaceful protest.

Nevertheless, one will have to search extensively for any editorials condemning these primitives in the Western press, let alone in the Muslim press. This is because moral expectations of Muslims are lower than those of other religious groups. Behaviour that would be held in contempt if engaged in by Christians or Jews is not only not condemned, it is frequently "understood" when done by Muslims.

That kind of soft bigotry, not phony reports about an American desecrating Koranic pages, should really upset Muslims. But it won't.

The lowest of the Muslim world and the elite of the Western world: Anti-Americanism makes strange bedfellows.

This column originally appeared on www.townhall.com. More of Mr. Prager's work is available at www.dennisprager.com.

Asim Aquil

This article again revolves around the "get over it" paradigm that people are epecting off the Muslims. I remember quite a few protests when the Bamiyan were taken out. People have been protesting in Pakistan about its Shariat court. We've come to a point where some of us have realized that yes, there is a problem of religious intolrance within our societies. But to hear responses like "Oh get over it" is so not what we're in the mood for right now. Apology is not enough, retraction is not enough. And yes, the violent riot was the stupidest response the Muslim world could've given to this.

I personally feel some greater action is required, I've become really skeptical about that entire prison facility ever since I've learnt about the rampant abuse for prisoners, almost all of them there without trial. Several of them found not-guilty later on. Can you imagine yourself being tortured and then being said "Oops sorry" and let go? I'm not saying that the US soldiers are under orders to poke fun and torture people like mad men and women, but they have too many emotions vested into all of this and perhaps some get carried away. I think a UN team should take over the inner functions of that facility and a mix bunch of prison guards and everyone there SHOULD be tried, especially the one that are going to be kept for over a week.

Confed999

I only know of a couple dozen credible accounts from several facilities, that's not rampant.

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InfiniteDreams

The US has been taking pain staking measures not to enflame world perception about the war. We've been walking on eggs shells since day one to our own detriment. Everytime something 'unethcial' or 'immoral' happens mainstream media try blow it up and paint it as standard US Policy. This is War this is not pretty stuff we're dealing with, one should expect things of this nature to occur and be able to seperate it from the big picture.

Asim Aquil

... well many from Pakistan... I posted one link, but I've read more over the months. Just once is too many, but I'm pretty sure I've read a lot to make anyone uncomfortable.

I don't think anyone's blaming US policy here. I think US policy for the very sake of mission objectives must be the very opposite here. You're right, they've got a bad rep now and can't afford to make any more goofups, the policy might be to be nicer to the prisoners. But its still not happening.

After 9/11 attacks, I think its kind of impossible to ask each and every US soldier to be a nice guy in the prison. There will be a few bad apples. I personally think, UN forces should take over that facility, and the Americans just retain rights for interrogations. But the catch is they only get to interrogate people with sufficient evidence on them. 6 months of torture and then saying oops is a very effective way of making more enemies for the US than to resolve any problems.

Source: UK Observer

konkerer

If you think the article was about "get over it" then I am afraid you did not get the gist of it at all.

The article is simply saying that muslims create so much fuss about their religion compared people of other religion such as christians, buddhists, or the jews for example.

I am afaird, what he is saying is actually true.

Flushing a couple of pages of Koran down the toilet is not same thing is as destroying a 2000 year old World Heritage site such as Bamiyan budha.

The flushed pages of the Koran can be replaced, but can we go back 2000 years in a time machine and rebuild Bamiyan Buddha?
Loss of Bamiyan Buddha was not only loss to Budhists but to entire civilization, thanks to the Islamists.

Asim Aquil

Well if you'd think deeper, its not really about the few pages of Quran now is it?

I mean I can tell you right now I've not lost any sleep over the Quran pages, but I'm at unease at this perception that has been set in my mind now, about the situation in Gitmo. Why do you think people aren't satisfied with a retraction and an apology? You wanna know whats worth a lot more worse than a million years old heritage site? An unconvicted person serviing time (though umm they haven't been tried and sentenced) and very possibly going through various abuses in the name of interrogation. The Quran story just added to that perception that perhaps the prison guards there really know no bounds?

And really since when did we start comparing American standards of morals with a tribalistic government like the Taliban?

Confed999

"alleged"

Asim Aquil

Thats true. But it still leaves a strong perception, to make us uncomfortable.

smilingassassin

Thats the best damn interpretation of events I have ever seen! Islamists always scream bloody murder when their religion is even allegedly defiled and yet where is their overwhelming distaste when something like the distruction of the Bamiyan Buddha occurs? I won't forget the day muslims danced in the streets after 3000 inocent civilians were murdered in a hellish and cowardly attack, one that reaked of contempt for human life.

Asim Aquil

You won't forget? Well I guess then you know what I'm talking about, its the perceptions that get wedged in even though an ordinary American joe would never torture people, lynch days as far as I know in America are over. If you'd recall people in Palestine danced to that.

Muslims a whole lot. I'm pretty sure people in Palestine also weeped. People in Pakistan burnt American flags, then there were those who also promised "unstinted support" and its still on for the 4th consecutive year. That's the thing, I keep repeating. Islamic mullahs want have Pan-Islamic paradigms about the world. Some in America, view Muslims to have that Pan-Islamic thought wedged into them already. Who'd support those who are trying to break away from that mindset?

There will always be people trying to exploit news like the "desecration of Quran" and "innocents being tortured". Just as there will be people dancing and burning flags. Its your job to keep your house in order and its my job to keep fight for mine.

indianguy4u

what too late who told those idiots to riot & die for .This things r done by mullahs to shows how powerfull they r

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