xinhui

I started a thread on the US - China relations,
Sino-US relations

if you want to have serious exchange, I will be happy to conduct.

Ray

This thread is titled "Tibet protest in a perspective".

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

xinhui

and you are the one who bring US and her VP into this discussion. I just pointed out there are other thread out there regarding to that topic.

Ray

Thank you, Pied Piper!

flow

Thank you Inst! You told us the thoughts of Tibetans (The writer is a Tibetan I guess). But the date is strange. Why was it written on Mar 23rd, 2008, the day that has't come yet??

I heard from my friends who have been to Tibet that many Hans were doing business in Tibet. Most Tibetans still made their lives by depasturing sheeps. Tibetan kids were begging in streets (beggees were ususally foreigners and travellers).

So what the writer said may be true. If so, China do need to change its policy.

However, the writer says:

"The targets of destruction and violence were not random. The cars toppled and burning in front of the Jokhang temple, the 7th-century holy site at the heart of Lhasa's old city, and on the nearby Beijing East Road were expensive Toyota Land Cruisers and slick Hondas and Audis. They represent the upper class of Tibet's bureaucratic society and the ruling Han immigrants from China. The shops burning were Chinese-owned stalls and businesses, so many of which were built since Beijing renewed its push to bring intensive development and encourage Han migration to the Tibet Autonomous Region in the late 1990s."

As can be seen, the rioters were GOOD ORGANISED, the protest was ABORATIVELY PLANNED! If they did not plan for the destruction before hand, but were "forced by the police", they would have conflicts only with the police or just made some destruction randomly! Some media says "the peaceful parade turned into riot because of Chinese troops' suppression", which is purely a lie. Medias become agitation tools for some political parties.

Using the instrumentality of killing innocent people, burning shops and cars is somewhat like terrorists do. (I hope they're not) The New York Times supports such terroristic action, which is a self-contradiction to the US's action in Iraq. The Bush government protests terrorists while New York Times supports terroristic actions. bizarrerie

xinhui

India: Rampaging Hindus burn Muslim children alive | Independent, The (London) | Find Articles at BNET.com



INDIA'S WORST outbreak of Hindu-Muslim violence for a decade escalated yesterday with the deaths of 60 more people in the riot- torn western state of Gujarat amid fears the violence could spread.

A political crisis also loomed as the Indian Prime Minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, begged Hindu militants to halt inflammatory plans to raise a temple over the rubble of the mosque.

Six rioters were shot dead by police and at least seven Muslims were stabbed to death as towns in Gujarat erupted. Muslim businesses, homes, vehicles and mosques were set alight.


A single act of violence stood out on a day of horror. A 2,000- strong mob surrounded a block of Muslim flats in the Hindu-dominated area of Meghaninagar and set it alight. A dozen children and 26 adults were thought to have been burned alive. The mob blocked roads to stop police and firefighters rescuing victims.

The mobs were out for revenge after nearly 60 Hindu activists from the Hindu World Council (VHP) were murdered by Muslims who hurled firebombs into their train at Godhra station on Wednesday.

The horror of that attack, in which 14 children also died, stoked an atmosphere of inter-communal hatred that threatens to spread to other states ahead of a 15 March deadline imposed by militants for the building of a temple at the flashpoint of Ayodhya in northern India.
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Yesterday it was the turn of Muslim businesses, homes, restaurants and mosques to be sought out, doused with fuel and set alight. Hindu mobs fuelled by primal hate and armed with swords, clubs and petrol cans hunted them on the streets, inside the walled city and through the stinking slums of Ahmadabad's Muslim ghettoes.

Often the police, claiming that they were hopelessly outnumbered, stood by as one of India's most modern and richest cities was taken over by men bent on murder.

By the end of the day, the death toll was at least 60 and expected to rise. The army was called on to the streets to restore order and wrest control back from the mobs, which set fire to dozens of buildings and looted many more. Curfews were imposed in 26 towns and 70,000 officers were drafted on to the state's streets. About 700 people were arrested.

Much of the anger was spontaneous, fuelled by the horror of Wednesday's massacre. But even as smoke from the Muslim slums hung over the city, the state government announced it would investigate the conduct of Ahmadabad's police force, which is notoriously Hindu- dominated in a city that for decades has been infamous for its bitter religious conflicts.

Ahmadabad's descent into savagery came just over a year since it was hit by an earthquake that killed nearly a thousand people and brought down dozens of buildings.

But yesterday man, not nature, brought death to the city.

"There is a fire inside us. Our blood is boiling," said one Hindu woman, Mangal Behn.

Many eyewitness reports suggested that at least some of yesterday's attacks were organised and directed as cold-blooded revenge for the train massacre of Hindus at Godhra.

Other parts of India could only watch with a fascinated fear - and hope the bloodletting would not spread.

Once again the flashpoint had been Ayodhya, the site of a 16th- century mosque destroyed by Hindu militants in 1992 because they believed it to be the birthplace of the god Ram. They want to build a temple on the rubble and - defying a court order - have come up with the self-imposed deadline of 15 March to begin construction.

Pressure grew on Mr Vajpayee last night to clamp down on the VHP. There were also fears of more copycat attacks on trains carrying militants and more riots. The militants' destruction of the mosque in 1992 sparked rioting across India in which 2,000 people died. The men now ruling India were implicated, especially the home minister, L K Advani.

Ayodhya has become a rallying point for the ugly side of Hinduism, the fundamentalists who would root out Western influence and put down India's 100 million Muslims. Many want a war to settle old scores with Pakistan.

Last night the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party government of Mr Vajpayee seemed to be on a collision course with its one-time VHP allies, as opposition leaders called for the VHP to be banned.

Copyright 2002 Independent Newspapers UK Limited
Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights Reserved.

xinhui

let the fact speaking for itself.

enter Gujarat riot/violence in google.

or in wikipedia and follow the reference it listed, let the readers judge for themselves.

2002 Gujarat violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

kams

Xinhui,

I was in Ahmedabad when that happend. With all due respect lot of stuff in the press is very far from reality. Far more Hindus were killed by Police action. Far more Hindus have died in communal violence since independence that minority communities.

BTW the violence didn't spread to anyother state and there hasn't been a single act of communal violence since then in Gujarat.

Adux

Xinhui,

Type in Godhra Train burning, 64 Hindu's were burnt alive, the Riots started that way. you have 476 Hindu's and 700 odd muslims killed in those riots.

Stupid Indians, that is all I have to say for this.

xinhui

Just me, but I would never make such a statement. again, it is just me, but I prefer to view at issues/cause/policy. Calling a group of people by label, even your own, no matter positive or negative, is not a good idea.

maybe, just maybe, someday I can gain an understanding.

xinhui

kams,

I admit that I don't nothing about India politic and I hardly (with the above as an exception) commented on India affair, because I don't know enough

I remembered there were race riot in India and I did some google search per Ray's comment and I found those.

But it does seems some individual already know everything there is to know and commenting on everything they run into, and I am happy for those individuals, I wish I can have their wisdom.

All I can do is post my information and source and "let the readers judge for themselves" Not here to change any minds, nor tell government what to do.

Ray

How about looking a few bit back into time?

What started the carnage and riots?

Please search.

And check who were burnt.

Since you are so keen on facts, find them and let us know.

I could post it, but then it would be better if you researched and obtained the same.

Indeed you must post information, but you must know the complete facts of the case of what you are posting especially when you claim that you are not in the know of Indian politics. Further, you should not make such tall claims that 'let the reader decide' etc when you know nothing of the issue! Half baked info pandered as the complete truth is disinformation.

True there were riots and it was most unsavoury, but then what caused it? That is the way one quenches his thirst for facts!!

And you claim you are a "fact man"!

kams

Xinhui,

I believe Ray was refering to Indian State (Government) protecting the minorities. GoI record in appeasing minorities is very evident. (all because of vote bank politics).

xinhui

Easy on the personal attack there Ray. Attack the article, not person who posts it.

again, let the readers decide on that. I post my reference, my links. let them decide.

Ray

Sorry if you take it as a personal attack,

I am afraid I am a trifle forthright in expressing my views and am not adept at slanted insinuations.

I do post links, but I do express opinions too and they need not be from a cut and paste. For that I apologise.

When I said that China's trade with the West was important and major, it was based on a general feeling. Therefore, your demanding facts, did unnerve me, more so, since I have openly stated in this forum that I have no clue of economics.

But, I thank you again for providing the facts to indicate nearly a quarter of Chinese export is to the West (US and EU). A quarter, to me, is a large portions, even if it is to some, mere peanuts!

I reckon it is all about perceptions.

If I have ruffled your feathers, my most sincere apologies and I hope you accept the same.