Indirect Fire

Why would China go with war with Iran? After all, everybody knows that Iran is on China's payroll.

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I have no idea what I'm doing. Honestly!

xrough

UN rejects membership for Taiwan

By Laura Trevelyan
BBC News, UN, New York


The United Nations has once again blocked Taiwan's quest for membership of the world body, despite a huge high-profile campaign by the island.

A key UN committee has rejected a proposal from Taiwan's allies to put its bid on the agenda of the general assembly, meeting now in New York.

China, which claims Taiwan as a province, is adamantly opposed to UN membership for the island.

Taiwan and mainland China split in 1949 amid civil war.

Referendum planned

This is the 15th consecutive year that Taiwan's quest for membership of the United Nations has been rejected.

After the split in 1949, Taiwan became the stronghold of the nationalists and the mainland became the communist People's Republic of China.

However, until 1971, the Chinese seat at the UN was held by Taiwan under its formal title, the Republic of China.

But then the United Nations expelled Taiwan and gave the seat to the Beijing government.

Ban Ki-moon, the UN Secretary General, was asked why the UN could not consider Taiwan's membership.

He said it was legally impossible because of that 1971 general assembly resolution that expelled the representatives of nationalist China.

Taiwan, though, has no intention of giving up its bid for membership. The government is planning a referendum on the issue for March.

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ExNavyAmerican

Well, considering there is evidence that China has been shipping weapons to the Taliban, which is in the middle of a struggle with the US. AND since China's providing support to Iran's nuclear programs, AND since Iran has been in turn providing all measures of supplies and support to Iraqi insurgents who are killing US troops: I think, after hearing China's opinion on the subject, let's strike Iran now with full confidence we're doing the right thing.

In regards to Taiwan, I think that they should secede from China as the Republic of Taiwan. In that case, the UN will have no excuse to not admit them. I realize that this may very well bring war, but it very well may blow over. Anyway, it has to happen eventually. This status quo can't last forever.

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"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever."
- Thomas Jefferson

Officer of Engineers

The Chinese weapons found in Afghanistan dates back to the Soviet-Afghan War. China has suspended all nuclear aid long before this current crisis. Chinese nuclear weapons knowledge was spread by AQ Khan without their knowledge nor approval.

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Chimo

astralis

exnavyamerican,

the taiwanese themselves wouldn't vote for that- and it's a toss-up whether they would, even if china didn't threaten to invade.

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Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present.

-Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

beka

I think people forget in the Taiwan matter, that there are still a large number of Taiwanese that don't want independence from China, even without the invasion threat.

xrough

I think it will depend on the majority, if they choose to be independent or not that could be considered as the voice of the whole country.

ExNavyAmerican

The other alternative is to become a special administrative region like Hong Kong or Macao. I was just speaking from an American stand-point that I don't want an American ally to become a part of America's rival.

astralis

exnavyamerican,

the funny thing is, the DPP (aka the independence people) don't really view america with the friendliest of eyes (see CSB's latest speeches). the pan-greens have traditionally viewed america with some suspicion because of american support for the KMT in the past, and now more than ever, as america's stance here fits far more closely with china's.

that CSB is saying what he's saying now shows he pretty much doesn't give a good goddam what america thinks. that's the danger of the pan-green movement: they do not like america, but they believe so resolutely that america will come to their aid no matter what that they're quite willing to twist the tail of the dragon for their own domestic political gain.

beka

Well, if it was stave off a war with China, I'd think that this would be the better solution. It seems like the current Taiwanese government is more than willing to stir up the Tiger. Right now the Chinese are for the most part leaving the Taiwanese alone, as long as they don't declare independence. But the current Taiwanese government doesn't seem to care about the consquences of their actions.

ExNavyAmerican

I know what you mean. I ran into several Taiwanese nationals in China, and some of them, after talking to them, made it perfectly clear that they think very little of the US; but that they expect us to come to their aid. We can't cast them to the wolves, but it's not worth going to war over either -ie they aren't the most cordial of allies.

ExNavyAmerican

That's exactly the problem. The thing is, if they're attacked, America is required by law to aid them. I'd have no problem with assisting them as long as they act like allies, and not like leeches. The current Taiwanese government seems pretty reckless in regards to foreign policy. The need to lighten up. But I wouldn't blame them for being adverse to becoming a special administrative region because it's not the same thing as independence. We can't just leave them to that unless they're for it; we've done to much of abandoning allies (even bad ones) in the past 30 years.

beka

But China isn't forcing Taiwan to do anything right now. They are letting Taiwan be nominally independent. The Chinese would rather have unification be peaceful than not peaceful. The Chinese have said that they will not attack as long as the Taiwanese held to the one China principle.

Quite frankly, this has been the deal and the understanding between all sides for a lot of years. And this is the United States understanding with Taiwan as well. I think one could argue that if Taiwan declares itself independent they are in a sense provoking the Chinese to attack them.

ExNavyAmerican

The Chinese had rather it be peaceful, but are willing to fight for it. There's little to fear from China. We have to stop fearing war, and stop believing in peace at all, or at most for that matter, costs. The United States has made a commitment, and if Taiwan provokes China into attacking, we're obligated. If everyone agrees to Taiwan becoming a SAR of China, than fine. All for the good. But we should be prepared to fight for it: the Chinese are.

Of course they're provoking China by declaring independence. My rationalle is that the status quo can't last forever. It would be good for the US to show some guts, and tell China that Taiwan isn't uniting with anyone. But we'd have to have Taiwan behind us. Taiwan itself is split on the subject. So it's all very complex.

Taihang

Americans are bold when it comes to US interests. But how much US can hold to its promises or make a commitment is questionable today.