Bush and Rumsfeld and all them Neocons should just God-damn Resign!

**lulldapull** · 26th October 2004 20:47

Here yo go! an insult to the continuous injuries we are all suffereing since these baastards invaded Iraq in a move reminiscent of the LBJ administration!

This is a God-damn outrage and the height of incompetence! There ought to be a law here for incompetent idiots like these Neocons be thrown out of office for running our country into the ground! god I ave never seen such incompetence ever! Rumsfeld should be fired immediately! This is a God-damn outrage!

380 tons of explosives missing in Iraq

VIENNA, Oct 25: Nearly 400 tons of powerful explosives that could be used in conventional or nuclear missiles disappeared from an unguarded military installation in Iraq, the International Atomic Energy Agency said on Monday.

The Iraqi ministry of science and technology informed the IAEA of the disappearance of 380 tons of mainly HMX and RDX explosive materiel on Oct 10, agency spokeswoman Melissa Fleming told AFP, confirming a report in The New York Times.

"It can be used in a nuclear explosion device, for the explosion," she said, adding: "That's why it was under IAEA verification and monitoring" before the US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

The NYT said the materiel could produce bombs strong enough to shatter aeroplanes or tear the buildings apart.

Ms Fleming noted: "From a proliferation standpoint there is a possible application in nuclear weapons, (but) the most immediate concern is the threat of the explosive falling in the wrong hands and being used to commit terrorist acts."

The NYT reported that the explosives disappeared from the sprawling Al Qaqaa facility, which "was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no man's land, still picked over by looters as recently as Sunday."

"White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished sometime after the American-led invasion."

After UN weapons inspectors left Iraq under US pressure last year, "our only ability ... to monitor these sites is through satellite imagery. It was very difficult to detect here (from IAEA headquarters in Vienna), because the things were in bunkers," Ms Fleming said.

She said IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei would report the matter to the UN Security Council.

Our Washington correspondent adds: Meanwhile, the news prompted Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry to declare that this was "one of the great blunders" of the Bush administration.

US officials told reporters that President Bush's National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice had been informed of the missing explosives in September. Iraq's interim government had also informed the United States and UN nuclear inspectors that the explosives had vanished.

Senator Kerry said that failure to secure hundreds of tons of explosives now missing in Iraq was "one of the great blunders" of the war by the Bush administration. "Terrorists could use this material to kill our troops (and) our people, blow up aeroplanes and level buildings.

"The unbelievable blindness, stubbornness (and) arrogance of this administration to do the basics have now allowed this president to once again fail the test of being the commander in chief," Mr Kerry told an election rally.

**Confed999** · 27th October 2004 02:48

Hmmmm, nuclear program stuff huh? Thought that was all gone? BTW, how could "looters" take 380 tons of anything? Who has proof the explosives were even still there after the troops got there? Could Kerry have protected them with his little camo suit and shotgun? If so, where was he?

**Julie** · 27th October 2004 03:20

Originally Posted by Confed999

Hmmmm, nuclear program stuff huh? Thought that was all gone? BTW, how could "looters" take 380 tons of anything? Who has proof the explosives were even still there after the troops got there? Could Kerry have protected them with his little camo suit and shotgun? If so, where was he?

Oh please, can't you respond any better than that? I try to stay away from these military threads, but you have got to admit, that incident Lulldapull posted is incompetent, if ever anyone can see! AND, it was supposed to stay "hush-hush" until after the presidential election -- why so???? Does that mean even Bush himself thought it would make him look incompetent as a Commander in Chief? Well, duh !! I imagine so.

How many other things have occurred that we don't know about? I'm scared to even imagine.....that's why I don't want Bush re-elected!

**Confed999** · 27th October 2004 04:08

Originally Posted by Julie

Oh please, can't you respond any better than that?

Not without more information, as I indicated. You may take things at face value, but if it's part of political rhetoric, I need alot more info. Also, being from the NYT, the reporting is suspect, they've allready been caught publishing false stories.

Originally Posted by Julie

but you have got to admit, that incident Lulldapull posted is incompetent, if ever anyone can see!

Except other reports, including imbedded NBC reporter reports, are saying the stuff was gone when they got there. Like I said, I need alot more info than has been provided.

Originally Posted by Julie

Bush

Again, how is Bush involved? Now Bush has to pick every spot in Iraq that has to be guarded?

I knda hope Kerry is elected, and we'll get to do all of this same stuff to you libs. Whether Kerry had anything to do with it or not.

**Ray** · 27th October 2004 05:48

These sites had been indentified by the UN Inspector team as those which were being used for WMD and had been inspected. They did not contain WMD, but did contain RDX ( a potent explosives and is very popular with terrorists) and HMX ( the later variety can be used for triggering off Atom bombs and can be used to demolish buildings). These were sealed by the UN Team.

All sites identified by UN Inspections should have been taken over by the Invasion Force. However, in the heat of battle and the heady aftermath of the military task being achieved = Mission Accomplished, I reckon this issue was forgotten or given perfunctory attention.

As a neutral observer, I feel that while the military operation was perfect and well planned, everything else was left to God and good luck. Obvioulsy, the fgallout would be exactly what is being observed, wherein Iraq has turned out to be messy and each day increasingly srings new surprises, that indicates very shoddy planning (not with the military) but on the part of those who visualised the political, social and overall strategy.

Indeed, if there were WMD and they are not found because Saddam could have squirreled it off elsewhere, then again, the fault lies at the doorstep of those who conceptualised the operation and the strategy. It is not feasible to move the large quantity of WMD that Saddam is said to have possessed without it having been observed, given the 24 hours suveillance Iraq wa subjected to and the 2/3 of the country covered by teh no fly zone.

**Officer of Engineers** · 27th October 2004 13:28

Julie,

I would be very surprised if that warehouse was not already empty by the time the Coalition reached it. Soldiers are not in the habbit of leaving bad things or bad guys in the rear area.

**smilingassassin** · 27th October 2004 14:00

Dob't beleave the hype. In an election week rush:

**ABCNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 4 Times
**CBSNEWS Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 7 Times
**MSNBC Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 37 Times
**CNN Mentioned The Iraq Explosives Depot At Least 50 Times

But NBCNEWS reported: The 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives were already missing back in April 10, 2003 -- when U.S. troops arrived at the installation south of Baghdad!

An NBCNEWS crew embedded with troops moved in to secure the Al-Qaqaa weapons facility on April 10, 2003, one day after the liberation of Iraq.

According to NBCNEWS, the HMX and RDX explosives were already missing when the American troops arrived.

So now, lets get this straight - the special explosives used in nuclear weapons development that Iraq didn't have or in terrorist operations that Iraq didn't participate in - were missing prior to the US invasion had already been either buried, hidden or moved to Syria - which never took place.

I've been an avid beleaver that the WMD's were shiped of to Syria, the U.S. had troops poised to move through Turkey and they could have secured the border before these weapons could leave. Turkey flip floped back and forth before finnaly refusing to let the U.S transit through its teritory. IIRC Turkey wanted nato assets to protect them in order to accomidate the U.S plans but as usual the French scuttled it.

Lets also not forget Jordanians uncovered a Sarin plot by Syrian nationals weeks after the fall of Bagdad where did they get all the sarin from?, but of course this is just fancifull thinking in the eyes of the treasonous left, who would rather call the Iraq war Illegal because it dosn't follow the past actions of the U.S., which incidentally were wrong but Bush is wrong for not following them.

**lulldapull** · 27th October 2004 14:57

I swear to God I feel like walking up to this Rumsfeld baastard and biitch slapping him so God-damn hard that he'd stumble and falls over

God! man what a bunch of incompetent buffoons! From day one these guys have not got anything right!

Look at the latest! That A-raanb monkey El-Baradei from the IAEA is sounding off the alarm, and telling ppl that this is where these terrorists are getting the RDX to make those tiny hard to detect but powerful road side Bombs!

I literally have absolutely zero confidence in Rumsfeld now! This is criminal negligence!

Rusmsfeld should be God-damn fired!

Tons of Iraq explosives missing
'Massive' facility also held large caches of artillery
Monday, October 25, 2004 Posted: 8:52 PM EDT (0052 GMT)

(CNN) -- Some 380 tons of explosives powerful enough to detonate nuclear warheads are missing from a former Iraqi military facility that was supposed to be under American control, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog agency says.

Melissa Fleming, spokeswoman for the International Atomic Energy Agency, said the interim Iraqi government reported to the agency several days ago in a letter that the explosives were missing from the Al Qaqaa complex south of Baghdad.

The explosives -- considered powerful enough to demolish buildings or detonate nuclear warheads -- were under IAEA control until the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. IAEA workers left the country before the fighting began.

"Our immediate concern is that if the explosives did fall into the wrong hands, they could be used to commit terrorist acts and some of the bombings that we've seen," Fleming said.

She described Al Qaqaa as "massive" and said it is one of the most well-known storage sites. Besides the explosives, it also held large caches of artillery.

Fleming said the IAEA, which is based in Vienna, Austria, did not know whether some of the explosives may have been used in past attacks.

Deputy State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said the multinational force in Iraq and the Bush administration's Iraq Survey Group had been ordered to investigate the disappearance of the explosives.

The news followed an IAEA report earlier this month that said high-end, dual-use machinery that could be used in a nuclear weapons program was missing from Iraq's nuclear facilities. (Full story)

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said President Bush wants to determine what went wrong.

McClellan, talking to reporters on Air Force One, said the storage site was the responsibility of the interim Iraqi government, not the United States, as of the June 28 transfer of power.

McClellan said the Iraqi government reported the missing weaponry to the IAEA in a letter dated October 10, and the IAEA informed the U.S. mission in Vienna on October 15. National security adviser Condoleezza Rice was told a few days later, then informed the president.

The Iraqi letter said the material disappeared "due to lack of security" of government installations during the looting that followed the fall of dictator Saddam Hussein's regime in April 2003.

The IAEA said that before the war it inspected the Al Qaqaa facility multiple times and verified that the material was present in January 2003. The agency said the material was mentioned in reports to the U.N. Security Council that were made public.

Ereli said coalition forces searched 32 bunkers and 87 other buildings at the Al Qaqaa facility after the war for weapons of mass destruction. The troops found none, but did see indications of looting, he said. Bush declared an end to major combat operations in Iraq on May 1, 2003.

"Some explosive material at the time was discovered, although none of it carried IAEA seals, and this discovery was reported to coalition forces for removal of the material," Ereli said.

Ereli said coalition forces have cleared 10,033 weapons caches and destroyed 243,000 tons of munitions. Another 162,898 tons of munitions are at secure locations and awaiting destruction, he said.

A senior administration official played down the importance of the missing explosives, describing them as dangerous material but "stuff you can buy anywhere."

The official noted that the administration did not see this necessarily as a "proliferation risk."

"In the grand scheme -- and on a grand scale -- there are hundreds of tons of weapons, munitions, artillery, explosives that are unaccounted for in Iraq," the official said.

"And like the Pentagon has said, there is really no way the U.S. military could safeguard all of these weapons depots or find all of these missing materials."

The official said the Iraq Survey Group concluded that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction and documented the scope of the problem.

Threat from terrorists
A European diplomat told The New York Times that Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the IAEA, is "extremely concerned" about the potentially "devastating consequences" of the vanished stockpile.

"The immediate danger" of the lost stockpiles is its potential use by insurgents to make small, but powerful, bombs, an expert told the Times. The expert said the explosives could be transported easily across the Middle East.

According to the Times, the stockpiles missing from Al Qaqaa are the strongest and fastest in common use by militaries around the globe.

The Iraqi letter to the IAEA identified the vanished explosives as containing 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or "high melting point explosive," 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or "rapid detonation explosive," among other designations, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or "pentaerythritol tetranitrate."

Fleming said the IAEA, whose mission is to keep track of everything with potential nuclear weapons applications, had been monitoring about 100 sites in Iraq, but there were only a few of special concern, including Al Qaqaa.

"This is a real massive quantity of explosives that could have reached the hands of insurgents and could be used with deadly force and consequences against people in Iraq," Fleming said.

"One would have to assume it's been stolen by someone who has some sort of nefarious purpose for it."

Political fallout
With the U.S. presidential election eight days away, Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry seized on the information.

"If President Bush can't recognize his failures in Iraq -- which he doesn't admit, won't acknowledge -- you can't fix them. And then he's doomed to repeat the same mistakes elsewhere," Kerry said. (Full story)

The Bush campaign responded in kind.

"John Kerry has no vision for fighting and winning the war on terror, so he is basing his attack on the headlines he wakes up to each day," said Bush-Cheney campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt.

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux and Elise Labott contributed to this report

**Julie** · 27th October 2004 14:58

Originally Posted by Confed999

Again, how is Bush involved? Now Bush has to pick every spot in Iraq that has to be guarded?

The Bush "Administration" seemed to have alot of satellite photos of what Iraq did have at the UN meeting to convince them an invasion was required. Wasn't satellite resources monitoring these sites closely during the pre-emptive invasion which is specifically important during a post-war planning phase? I mean since WMD were the main topic of issue, weapons in Iraq should have been one of the first and foremost secured, especially for the safety of our troops in the post-war. The UN left Iraq right before the invasion, so we know they were not there guarding them, and the UN did beg to go back into right after the invasion, but were denied access by the US.

Based upon that, I would say the title "Commander In Chief" is not just a title, but is supposed to carry a certain amount of responsibility on his watch for incompetence such as this. And, giving Bush the benefit of the doubt, if he is not solely responsible, then he needs to fire the one who obviously is. That is part of his administration, and when the lives of our troops are at stake, horrible incidents such as this are inexcusable and should not be downplayed.

Originally Posted by Confed999

Except other reports, including imbedded NBC reporter reports, are saying the stuff was gone when they got there. Like I said, I need alot more info than has been provided.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3955673.stm

How much more do you need to prove the incompetence of this whole administration? Do you need to actually be there to see it first-hand?

The many excuses for this current Presidency is so "politics" to me, it almost makes me sick.

**Jay** · 27th October 2004 15:09

It still is a mystery. How the heck were they able to move 380 T of high explosives in a desert. Is it for real or is it like WMD story

Iraq was/is/will be under surveillence and I dont think a convoy of vehicles in an open desert is that easy to hide. Its very hard to believe this news. This thing may be looted/distributed even before the war started.

**lulldapull** · 27th October 2004 15:12

I swear to God this has got to be the worst administration our country has ever seen! Pretty soon it'll all be over! our boys would come back home, and these Neocon buffoons will go down in history as the most incompetent and retarded bunch of bible bigots that disgraced us in front of Americans, let alone the god-damn world!

Every damn day that goes by, some disaster of sorts unfolds in Iraq! Very very disgusting situation, compounded by these religious fundo/ bible bigot administrtion!

I mean what the hell were they thinking when they went in that god-forsaken country???

Iraq is a total policy failure, and It is really a time of infamy for all of us! We should put Bush and co. on trial and lynch these incompetent baastards!

**Julie** · 27th October 2004 15:34

Originally Posted by lulldapull

I swear to God this has got to be the worst administration our country has ever seen! Pretty soon it'll all be over! our boys would come back home, and these Neocon buffoons will go down in history as the most incompetent and retarded bunch of bible bigots that disgraced us in front of Americans, let alone the god-damn world!

Every damn day that goes by, some disaster of sorts unfolds in Iraq! Very very disgusting situation, compounded by these religious fundo/ bible bigot administrtion!

I mean what the hell were they thinking when they went in that god-forsaken country???

Iraq is a total policy failure, and It is really a time of infamy for all of us! We should put Bush and co. on trial and lynch these incompetent baastards!

Ditto. I feel like we're in a nightmare trying to wake up.

**Jay** · 27th October 2004 15:37

US plays down loss of explosives

The US is playing down the significance of a UN letter saying almost 350 metric tons of high explosives went missing from an Iraqi base after the war.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said there was no risk of nuclear proliferation because of the theft.

It has become a big election issue after President George Bush was accused of incompetence by his Democrat rival.

Meanwhile, some US media reports have queried if the theft happened before US troops arrived at the base at al-Qaqaa.

NBC television reported that one of its correspondents was embedded with the 101st Airborne Division which temporarily took control of the base on 10 April 2003 but did not find any of the explosives.

However, other US outlets, including NBC's own news website, quoted Pentagon officials who said a search of the site after the US-led invasion had revealed the explosives to be intact.

Weapons destroyed

Arms experts say the missing explosives - monitored by the UN nuclear watchdog until the March 2003 invasion - could potentially be used to make a detonator for a nuclear bomb or other explosive device.

MISSING EXPLOSIVES

US presidential challenger John Kerry condemned the incident as a prime example of what he said was President George W Bush's mishandling of the war in Iraq.

"This is... one of the greatest blunders of this administration - and the incredible incompetence of this president and this administration has put our troops at risk and this country at greater risk," Mr Kerry said.

Administration officials, quoted anonymously by US media, criticised the UN watchdog - the International Atomic Energy Agency - for leaking the news at such a sensitive time, a week before the US election.

The Vienna-based IAEA said it had been informed on 10 October by the Iraq interim government that the explosives were missing.

Mr McClellan pointed journalists to the 243,000 munitions destroyed in Iraq since the invasion, and another 163,000 earmarked for destruction.

"The first priority, from our standpoint, was to make sure that this wasn't a nuclear proliferation risk, which it is not," he said.

"These are conventional high explosives... and the president wants to make sure that we get to the bottom of this."

Improvised devices

The IAEA last inspected the munitions at al-Qaqaa in January 2003, at which point the HMX explosives had been sealed and tagged.

The agency has not been allowed back into Iraq since the invasion.

Analysts say the theft raises the possibility that some explosives could have found their way into improvised devices used against US-led forces in Iraq, or could do so in the future.

But US officials say the car and roadside bombings that have claimed thousands of lives in the Iraq insurgency have mostly used artillery shells or dynamite.

The explosives lost at Qaqaa consist mainly of 195 tons of HMX (high melting explosives) and 141 tons of RDX (cyclonite) - both key components in plastic explosives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3955007.stm

**lulldapull** · 27th October 2004 16:28

Originally Posted by Julie

Ditto. I feel like we're in a nightmare trying to wake up.

Man I tell you that this is exactly the type of situation that we faced in vietnam! Just an asss-hole being a bible bigot faag makes up his mind that he is going to have his way whether any one gives a rats asss or not!

The problem with this neocon/ bible bigot way of thinking is the very same myopic delusional thought process that goes without saying for all them God-damn middle eastern bull**** religions!

The problem of seeing the world through a warped fundo/ mulla lens is the same as it was 2000 years ago! and basically entails the hope and anticipation that reality turns out to be identical to their way of thinking because of an overwhelming personal desire to do so!

Religious and conservative Ppl make up fictitious claims and concoct bull**** stories and make up lies because they don't want their little fundo glass houses to shatter, despite knowing the God-damn truth!

This type of situation is nothing short of pseudo imperialism. very sad that our country has learn't nothing from the past 50 years of these types of total fiasco's and dilemma's.

I swear to God even if that God-damn pseudo A-raanb Ralph Nader were to get elected, I'd support him against these Bible bigot Fundo mullas that now sit in the White House!

Shame on all us Americans for not standing up to this incompetent tyrant christian mulla Bush!

**Fonnicker** · 27th October 2004 17:24

I find it convenient that now the the "Iraqi Government" is in place, when something goes wrong we can balme them for it.

McClellan, talking to reporters on Air Force One, said the storage site was the responsibility of the interim Iraqi government, not the United States, as of the June 28 transfer of power.

If indeed it's true that it would be impossible for the US to secure all of the weapons and explosives in Iraq, why not just say that? Why skirt around the issue and point the finger of blame?

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