Ray

You are right. I don't know much about Islam.

However, I do know Islam as is practised in India.

I will also not hesitate to add that MOST Indian Moslems are wierd and obscurantist, if not primitive in thought and practice when I compare them with the enlightened thoughts of Moslems around the world on this forum.

It is painful for me to see that our Moslems are still cave dwellers.

About Islam being a religion of love and compassion, I don't know. I know that is is what is being bandied about in the posts and on websites. I sincerely hope that it is. But the fact that Moslems are not actually showing that ethos the Moslem websites are projecting! That's where is my dilemma and disbelief in the written or spoken word. The ground realties are totally contrary to what is being said.

I assure you I didn't want to hurt you, but to goad you to explain this dilemma of what Islam claims on websites and what it does on ground. And what is being done to correct his imbalance.

Imagine in Egypt you have belly dancing. And yet that is not what I understand is Islamic in thought!

Further, I have posted an article somewhere on this forum that reads 'Moslems are not Terrorists, but unfortunately most Terrorists are Moslem'. This article is by a Moslem author. His anguish is my anguish.

Inspite of everything, I have many Moslem friends and I am proud to be their friends.

If you have been hurt, I apologise.

__________________


"Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

HAKUNA MATATA

Ray

When I was a child I have met many visiting Professors from Egypt in the Institute where my Mother taught.

They were great and swell guys. Wonderful in fact.

Yet, I was surprised when I compared with the Indian Moslem professors. The Egyptian, Iranian and Professors of the Middle East were way out and our Indian Moslem Professors were like rats in a hole with total mind block. One idiot would even stop teaching as soon as he heard the call for Prayers and rolled out his Prauyer rug! Imagine he didn;t finish his lesson for which he was being paid! What about the students being swindled thus because they had paid their fees and should ahve been taught!

That never happened with the genuine Moslems Professors from the Middle East.

Anony

the belly dancing thing is a good example. But not suffice. A muslim is someone who follows Islam. So when a guy who happens to be muslim by birth , kills another INNOCENT CIVILIAN, and makes it his life job, it doesn't mean he is following Islam., even if he does the Islamic rituals and such. The teachings of Islam on War are miserably misunderstood due to the negative media coverage it has been getting, maybe you should research it for yourself.

For example Lebanon. You have Muslims and Christians not based on what they do, but based on what their families were traditionally. Means you will find muslims who don't know a single verse of the Quran and a Christian who didn't go to church more than a couple of times in his lifetime .Despite all these each of them claim they are part of a particular religion, doesn't mean that in reality they are.

It is sad that some people give a bad image of a large group of people, but one should diffrentiate between both groups using his given logic.

Ray

Anony,

If some Moslems are killing and not following Islam, excommunicate them. Declare them as Non Moslem like the Qadianis or Ahmediyas have been done in Pakistan.

Won't that give Islam a fair name?

Instead, some prominent Mollahs are praising them both in Islamic countries and in the UK and other foreign countries inclduing India.

The apathy in lessoning the terrorists by Moslems, indirectly suggests that the majority of Moslem support them.

Thus, would it be wrong to believe that the Moslem World supports the Terrorists and thus are abetting Terrorism?

Would that be an unfair judgement by Non Moslems?

Anony

"Instead, SOME prominent Mollahs are praising them both in Islamic countries and in the UK and other foreign countries inclduing India."

So I don't understand. you acknowledge that only a few acknowledge terrorist attacks , which happens in a lot of religions, and then you say it is correct that people have a close minded view and believe (Islam == Terrorism) ?
That is just promoting ignorance in my opinion. If people are limited in their view of the world, why do muslims have to face the burden at the end ?

otomik

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/3698196.stm
no information on demands met, rumors of big money ransom paid.
but still a happy ending

Ray

I wonder if it is a happy ending.

They are praising the Terrorists. That is hardly a happy situation for Berluscani (spelling!).

Ray

Because, the rather gruesome, barbaric and inhuman form of physical harm, especially on the unarmed and the innocent is used by Islamic folks to ensure what you term as 'resistance'.

To top it all, they quote justification from the Islamic religious text. Extraordinarily, those religious text turn out to be authentic.

Further, when some prominent Moslem clerics too raise the clamour of religious sanctity being the rasion d'etre to these hideous and barbaric acts, then it becomes extraordinary.

All folks of the cloth or relgious leaders of all religion are supposed to be preaching the goodness of man, humanity, brotherhood and things like that. Therefore, when Islamic religious folks also show intolerance and justify the same with their religious texts, it apparently shocks the others.

Therefore, to quote you ' muslims have to face the burden at the end'. It thus becomes the business to oppose the terrorists and the Mullahmen.

All this also robs the friends of the Moslem people, who are from other religions, the moral right to defend the Moslem point of view and they then play on a rather sticky wicket!

Now, you may say that the Moslems are being bombed etc which is also inhuman. The difference is that it is not hate inspired against an individual or a race or religion per se. It is to rid the area of terrorists who are holding the world at ransom. The vermins have to be erradicated. They are a danger to all, including Moslems.

In Pakistan, the fundamentalists were encouraged and shaped into terror spreading well knit organisations by Zia. They became more powerful than the govt. Benazir tried to control them but failed miserably. Other civilian govts shied away. It is only Mushrraf because of the Army backing can do something. Yet, he has been attacked twice, and, inspite of his heavy hand there is daily killings in Pakistan. Not against minorities or foreigners, but against their own - against Moslems!

Therefore, today's fundamentalist warriors or jihadis of today are tomorrow's Frankensteins to the Moslem world. Don't get befooled by their quoting the scripture and praying five times. The Devil can cite scriptures for his purpose goes the English saying.

Remember Sadat? John K Cooley in his book 'Unholy Wars', apart from given in details Sadat's help to the Moslem Brotherhood for recruits for Afghanistan at the behest of the US, (to which he wanted to show everlasting loyalty) (to paraphrase the authour) also shows how the Islamists paid back Sadat by assassinating him in Oct 1981.

So, take heed before it becomes too late.

Anony

Firstly I clearly stated that there is a difference between resistance and terrorism. No matter what you say when a militia takes up arms against SOLDIERS, it is in no way terrorism. In their eyes they are getting rid of invaders. If you call that terrorism then you would find alot of terrorist worldwide and in heros in history books would also be called terrorism.

Incase you did not get my stance . BEHEADING IS TERRORISM. Get that straight before posting endless arguements.

Secondly you are showing your ignorance through arguing about a religion you know squat about. can you please quote the Quran telling muslims to kill other people? Lets say that you are right, islam is a terrorist religion, muslims just can't wait to behead you at the command of their religion. Do you think wars are religion inspired nowadays? They may have a religious backing, but is it the main reason?

I don't like your attitude saying:
"Now, you may say that the Moslems are being bombed etc which is also inhuman"
Compare how many Innocent muslims democratic countries has killed compared to the 'Mullahmen'. I am in no way defending terrorists, but I am pointing out that muslims are not animals for you to take their deaths as insignificant.
So which is worse to you ? 2 Israelis children or 2 Palestenian children dying ? To me they are exactly the same tragedy. Now compare 66 to 2. Are they still the same worth to you ? Will you ignore 66, focus on 2 and call the 66 death a result of terrorism ?

Incase you did not know, the Us army is in Iraq, and not the opposite. The Israeli army is in the West bank and gaza, not the opposite. So you want there to be America in Iraq without opposition of the local people, and Israel in the Westbank and gaza without opposition of local people ? Why don't we return to colonialism then altogether ? I think Britian should conquer India and liberate the people from the corrupt government. How about that ? let other countries interfere in internal affairs.

Confed999

Ask the mullahs why they preach just that...

__________________
No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

Franco Lolan

US doesn't want to stay in Iraq; we want to get out! Israel does want to stay in Gaza. The Israel/Iraq comparison is fallacious.

Anony

Which Mullahs ? I haven't seen a sheikh at the mosque so far who preached that. You need to get out in the real world and ask real mullahs instead of living in a world of t.v. propaganda. And again if you don't have hard evidence, don't even continue this arguement. You are just showing your ignorance with the way you are replying.

Confed999

Here's a bunch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Taliban_leaders .

Anony

ok.. you clearly don't get my point

Ray

Anony,

Though I dont agree with you. Yet, for discussion's sake - so what's up in Iraq is by a militia? Friend, a militia has to have an uniform and a leader who are upfront. Even in Cuba, Castro's men were in uniform and not poodlefaking in civil clothes.

I am afraid I don't see in Iraq any uniform or any leader upfront!

If you are without uniform, you are at best a terrorist.

True. I am not saying it. Your Mullahmen are saying so. They say jihad is a holy war against infidels. I presume that the Mullahmen are religious leaders of Islam or are they a part of the infidels?

You don't like? What makes you feel I like what you say? Or is it the typical arrogance of Islam showing? Everyone else is a blasted infidel and you alone know the revealed Truth? Friend, Live and Let Live. Cut out the arrogance and the supercilious attitude.

I don't think Moslems are animals. I ahve commanded Moslems troops when I was in the Army. My orderly was a Moslem. To me all deaths of innocents matter. I have not ever supported the Israeli killings or the Palestianian killings. Firend, I have seen death more than you. I was in the Army and have seen a whole lot of combat and unecessary deaths because of war. So don't tell me about all this in your mealy mouthed way.

No. So let there be elections in Iraq. The terrorists don't want that or do they? If they do, then it is a funny and lethal way they are showing their desire!

In so far as Plaestine is concerned, get back to Oslo.

Then, please don't exhibit your crocodile tears for the Palsetinians. If you meant business, the Arab League wouldn't be poodle faking in those beautiful palaces where they hold meetings and instead do something to allievate the sufferings of the Palestinians.

Forget about British recolonising India. Worry about why Egypt has sold itself to the US. I am surprised you don't like the US in Iraq when you are regularly boosted by the US funds and arms. read Cooley's UNHOLY WARS. It will give you an interesting perspective; not only about the US Egypt axis but also about the spread of Islamic fundamentalism and Egypt's role in it.

Lastly, don't thump the pulpit and pontificate. And pray why are you so engrossed in fiddle faddle?