zraver

North Koreas's side of the DMZ has thousands of HARTs (Hardend Artillery sites each needing a direc thit to take out. Belt after belt after blet of mines, bunkers pill boxes and fighting postions by the thousandsa and unlike Iraq no open flanks thanks to the mountains.

The US Army could chew through it with time, but not fast enough to save Seoul. The USMC might be able to outflank the DMZ, but we dont have enough sealift to keep them supported if the army cannot get through fast enough.

Officer of Engineers

Zravaer,

An interesting thought just entered my head. What could the Americans do to help the Chinese get KJI first. Obviously, the Chinese had a green light or at least did not get a read light and the Chinese decided it couldn't be done. What can the Americans offer to get it done?

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Chimo

zraver

More accuretly, what can China offer the US and South Korea. In this scenerio I am thinking Kim has decided on war and theres no way around it Seoul is a sa good as dead and the nulear threat is real. Korea glowing in the dark is one thing that would draw the PRC in. The biggest assets the US can add to facilitate the PLA's arrival at Ponyang are airpower, sealift, airlift and USMc troops.

I am assuming that the US Army and RoKA will be fighting and dying along the DMZ and the failure of the North Korean invasion is what has caused the nuclear flashpoint.

USAF isolates Ponyang trapping Kim in the city and blankets the southern/western coast from a certain point down preventing the DPRK moving troops from the front. USMC units and perhaps airassult units seize the coastl roads leading to ponyang and set airheads further trapping Kim in the city, the also seize airfeidls with runways big enough for comercial sized jets.

USAF also hammers rocket sites and airfeilds capable of handling bombers armed with DPRK nukes.

USN Aegis vessels ring the pennisula to protect Japan

Becuase the US can strike form over the horizon with marines and is already within helicopter range. They can set up the beach and airheads faster and safe than the PLA can. Once set up, the PLAN and PLAAF can deleiver amphib forces and airborne forces in safety to set up the acutal seige of the city while the PLA races down from the North.

The chance of failure is high. Such an invasion would work no problem, the DPRK is orented in the wrong direction, but keeping a determined foe from popping a nuke... However a joint operation offers the best alternative to a tit for tat nuclear exchange which none of the major players wants.

For the PRC It also puts the PLA firmly incontrol of the border and gives them the ability to "dictate" terms on the Korean unification.

For the US and South Korea, the DPRK is no longer a threat and re-unifiaction is probalby around the corner.

Blademaster

South Korea doesn't want to be unified to a dirt poor starving country that S. Korea has to shell out hundreds of billions of dollars to raise the standard of living as comparable to S. Korea. All S. Korea wants is to remove the nuthead from N. Korea and start it on a non-threatening progressive level without any nukes.

One question: If Kim dies, who is the chosen successor? I have not heard any news or report who is the designated successor. In every dictatorship, there's gotta be a designated successor such as a first born son or such. So far I haven't seen anything which is weird because the first thing you do when you consolidate power as a dictator is to find a designated successor so that way you ensure the loyalties of your followers and keeping your designated successor under your control. It seems to me that the inner circle will make a power play or such.

Officer of Engineers

Somethings bother me with your scenario. If the USMC could not support their own beachheads, how are they going to support a PLAMC one? The Chinese could move 4 corps up front and probably another 3 with a 30 day warning but I don't see how they're going to be effective amphibously. If the USMC can't do it, then how are the Chinese going to do it?

Officer of Engineers

KJI's elder son is currently being groomed. He's not ready but the chances are that KJI's reign won't be passed on. The Chinese are squeezing him tight.

zraver

The USMC can support its beachhead, it just can't get much farther becuase of small numbers. The idea is to set up beachheads so the PLAN can land 2 divsions of PLA mech troops who can join with the USMC's mobile units rush to reinforce the PLA troops coming into the airbridges set up by the 82/101 to physically isolate Ponyang until the PLA's heavy units arrive from China.

Remember I am basing my theory on Kim already haivng gone to war, failing in his invasion and firm intel that he has decided to go nuclear. China doesn't want that for many and various reasons. The US doesn't hav ethe combat power to do it alone and has to go nuclear in repsonce unless China can offer an alternative.

Blademaster,

my scenerio is predicated on the fact that South Korea is already wrecked and Seoul has been flattened by war. Millions are already dead. The Koreas are already going to need rebuilding.

Officer of Engineers

Can this be achieved without cross training? You're talking two very different armies with very different command structures and thinking. And blue-on-blue risks are extremely high.

zraver

But less than the risk of a nuclear exchange. But if the risk is to high the US foirces might not venture out behoynd the actual air and beach heads.

YellowFever

God, I love this:

A Total amateur in these affairs (me) asks a few dumb questions and a whole bunch of military professional answers!

Thanks, guys....

How probable is your scenario zraver?

I agree both China and the US probably wants to see someone else in control of NORK but I don't see them wanting it badly enough to cooperate to such extent.

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...If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space!

zraver

How probable? I don't know I do know China does not want a nuclear exchange near its borders and the US doesn't want to use nukes if ther eis another way. My scenerio isn't exaclty my own, military writers have proposed similar solutions in various books before.

Officer of Engineers

PEACE MISSION 2005 - The Sino-Russian military exercise which included amphibous landings ... within shooting distance of North Korea.

Defcon 6

how about the US not paying for military intervention. why are we the ones racking up our defecit over this crap.

Officer of Engineers

Seems cheap to me. American money and South Korean blood doing what's right.

zraver

And yet Kim didn't get the hint.

Letting several billion people world wide ove rthe years live in peace and safety is well worth the treasure and blood we've spent.