Goatboy

I think you might be missing the critical issue here however: East Germans
are Germans. North Koreans are Korean, and not Chinese. Not the same language, not the same customs, and a different history (FAR more different than East and West Germans). Analogous to, guess what, North and South Korea merging!

Correct, food and survival are the most important considerations, but what do such temporary considerations have to do with the assimilation into mainstream Chinese society? These are two very different issues. Analogous to your cousin's house burning down. Of course you invite him into your home, you feed him, comfort him, help him get in touch with other family members, but in no way would you expect to provide him with permanent shelter, as he has no intention of remaining permanently either. Taking care of someone in their time of need does not constitute "permanent adoption".

Chinese "terms" have ALWAYS been "Koreans remain in North Korea".

How many countries in history have ever welcomed 20 million "aliens" all at once, and taken steps to ensure their assimilation into that respective society? Temporarily provide for? yes (along with the Red Cross, UN). China could handle the influx yes, but they'd be doing so with one goal and one alone: the repatriation of North Korean refugees back to Korea.

Sure, South Korea would help, and as a matter of fact, they would provide the greatest impetus for North Korean refugees to return to their homeland!
If South Korea exists, then it's a guarantee that Chinese policy toward North Korean refugees is not going to be: "lets assimilate" Koreans into society and spread them across the Chinese mainland to ensure adequate housing. No, China will "feed them", "clothe them", and with the help of international sponsors -- "house them temporarily", BUT send them back ASAP".

lemontree

I fail to understand what makes most members here think that China has no control over NK.

This is a Chinese move all the way, and I don't believe their statements denouncing the NK test. Its all a show on their part.

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Cheers!...on the rocks!!

Officer of Engineers

Well, Captain, I'm one of those who thinks China has no control over Kim. You do know that the Kims have rewritten their history to erase all Chinese participation in the Korean War and the graves of Chinese troops in Korea are at best neglected, at worst killed.

The Kims have played Moscow against Beijing, and vice versa.

The games the Kims have played with Seoul, Tokyo, and Washington with Beijing in the mix. Those of us who watched China during the Cold War saw the same thing. Neither Moscow nor Beijing knew which side of the Sino-Soviet split the Kims would side with.

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Chimo

Zhang Fei

Actually, my response was a way of saying that I'll respond to your points when you respond to mine. Unlike you, I'm not going to assume that you don't have a response - merely that you think my arguments are beneath contempt and not worthy of a response. In other words, you're employing what I'll call the classic Chinese filibuster/stonewall.

Officer of Engineers

The Russian claims of a 5-15kt device can be thrown out the window. Their own data does not support that conclusion

http://www.ceme.gsras.ru/cgi-bin/inf...l?mode=1&id=84

They reported a 4.0 in the r-scale.

PandaRoo

Reminds me of the film Team America. Love Trey and Matt~:D
Well, you American guys should get into real quick action
and save the motherf***ing day!

Well, I don't like the idea of having the refugees flooding into China.
While in Australia I'd even be pissed off when some people try to speak Cantonese to me in restaurants. I'd tell them to speak either English or Mandarin. Too troublesome to have a big group there that will hardly ever integrate.

But we ordinary people here don't call the shots so...
whatever~(the way Sebastian in Little Britain pronounces it)

__________________
Going to the gym is not a sign of being shallow!
Get over it~:rolleyes:

PandaRoo

Well, NK hopes that everybody else thinks that China has a strong influence over them so that they would think twice before they do anything to NK.

Meanwhile probably some countries out there do hope China has a strong influence over the NK so that NK could still be dissuaded from walking down the wrong path.

The irony, however, is in reality China has very little influence there.
You guys are correct with the facts after the war in early 1950s.
There wasn't even a honeymoon during the war.
And the post-coitus kicks were surely big pains in the neck for Beijing afterwards.

Probably that's politics, where you don't always get what you see.

Officer of Engineers

Oh I don't know. Cutting off the electricity and water would grab Kim's attention but that's a double edged sword and Kim knows it.

Canmoore

very interesting...thanks!

kams

Now I do need that Weed real bad

Glad to see that OOE recoved fully from that nasty shock

Parihaka

So Sir, as an engineer, you have one week to supply food, water, shelter and sanitation for already malnourished refugees starting from zero and growing to lets say just 10 million in that week.
Your Government has also tasked you with preventing those refugees from dispersing throughout your country.
How many divisions will you need?

kams

And Sir, while you are at it, please ensure medical care for approximately 200,000 refugees (1% of refugees with serious injuries, old people, babies etc etc...or do you prefer to shoot them?), may be some out patient care for another 200,000-500,000 (ahhh forget it, let Darwin take care of them, survival of fittest), make sure that no epidemic breaks out (proper burial for 50,000-100,000). Then ensure transportation to South Korean Border (mmm lets see at 2000 refugees/Train its 10,000 trips).

Oh I almost forgot..keep our Army supplied and we have to win a war

Our Good Wishes and Prayers are with you.

Officer of Engineers

Way, Way, Way above my pay grade. However, for a single battle group with a full engineering regt, I could handle about 10,000 people provided I have the proper location.

astralis

zhang fei,

alright, you asked for it. i used those questions as a WAY TO RESPOND TO YOURS. the answer to MY questions is effectively my answer to you. and as you don't seem to know the answer to those questions, i will answer them for you.



94% of chinese live in the eastern third of the country.
56% of chinese live in the 13 southeast/coastal provinces as well as two coastal municipalities (Shanghai, Tianjin).

in the three provinces that border NK- heilongjiang, jilin, liaoning- have around 100 million people. assuming HALF of north korea's 23 million people run across the china-NK border, that is around 12% of the population in the area!!!

considering that right now, in peacetime, around 300 million chinese do not have access to clean drinking water, yes, i would say that the north korean refugee problem will be a friggin' disaster. not just for north koreans but for chinese. considering how many problems the world's richest nation had with katrina, a disaster that required evacution of "only" 1.2 million people...

essay

Yup,America is the richest and most powerful nation of the world.That,s the only reason that why US government badly cope with katrina!After the disaster ,the whole city sunk into anarchy and became the hotbed of sin and crime which never could be expected in China.Chinese ppls have a high discipline,esp in hard time.China is such a country in where ppls always have to cope with lot of disasters include natural disaster and that made by warlords.In contrast,American ppls live in a better-off society,and they rarely experience what Chinese have to endure.And as a consequence of it,American do worse than Chinese during the time of disaster.