What will happen if China war with Japan? - Page 9

wangrui961 · 10-17-2006, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essay

And you are wrong to this point too.
The Soong, however, were not Steppe Peoples, and remain outside until Kublai.
If you have time,pls visit my hometown and i,m glad to be your tour guide!
and you can see different buildings erected by ancient Chinese army and immigrants in Iner mongolia and outer-mongolia.Both Mongolian and Chinese always say if a mongolian live in China for 20 years he will be a Chinese vice versa for Chinese.And my family is an example.We have origin of Mongol and once didn,t admit that we are Chinese,but when we live with Chinese in city,we realize that we share the same root.

Thanks ,but are you in the inner of outer mongoia?

essay · 10-17-2006, 11:12 AM

OFFICER,pls READ the "Tamerlane"published by Yale university press.He do speak Mongol language,and Turkish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Hate to tell you this but there was not even a China until Kublai and under Kublai, they were Mongol, not Chinese, with various Khanates giving tribute to the Great Khan. The Golden Horde which remained closest to China was definetely not Chinese. And certainly, Tammerlane in his quest to reunite the Mongol Empire was on his way to face the Ming, couldn't speak a word of Mongol, let alone any of the Chinese dialects.

The Han and Tang had tributary states in the North and Korea - does not make them Chinese at all.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-17-2006, 11:16 AM

Tammerlane was Turkic though he claimed old Genghis blood. As I recalled, he never had any Mongol teachers, and all his schooling were in Islam and his treaties were with other Turks.

essay · 10-17-2006, 11:17 AM

I live and work in Beijing.My grandfather came down from outer-mongolia in 1950s.More exactly he came from Russia.You know Mongolian is the second largest minority in Russia after break up of soviet union.And my grandfather had a Russian wife who gave birth of two chirdren for him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wangrui961

Thanks ,but are you in the inner of outer mongoia?

wangrui961 · 10-17-2006, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essay

OFFICER,pls READ the "Tamerlane"published by Yale university press.He do speak Mongol language,and Turkish.

I think I would not debate the China history with offier,he even not konw Chinese is not a people but a summarization of all peoples of China,or he would not say Mongolians are not Chinese. I think even a middle school student in China konw this.

essay · 10-17-2006, 11:22 AM

Soong overthrew Tang dynasty,and certainly take all territory of Tang.Because of Governmental corruption,peasants uprising and Jinn tribe,liao tribe overthrew the government,and emperor flee with officer from Northern China to southern china.
Soong is devided into North Soong and South Soong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

How? The Soong were Southern China. The Steppes are Northern Asia. It was Kublai who conquered the Soong.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-17-2006, 11:25 AM

Ok, I'm a military historian. There is a BIG difference between Mongols and Mongolians in view of the historic context. The Jinns did not consider themselves Han nor Tang. The Ming certainly did not feel Mongols belonged in China. And how long did the rest of China considered the Qing foreign occupiers?

To say they're all Chinese today is fine but back in their time, it is NOT correct to state that they were Chinese. They were not. They were different peoples with different styles of governments with different agendas. If is FROM that perspective that you've got to view things.

To state that the Mongol Empire stretching from Europe to China was a Chinese Empire is false and extremely misleading. If it were so, then why did the Ming and the Poles fought so hard to kick the Mongols out?

essay · 10-17-2006, 11:26 AM

He was born in a mongol tribe who was turklized.But he is a mongolian,the descendent of Chai he tai Khan.Who ruled uzbekstain and large part of central asia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Tammerlane was Turkic though he claimed old Genghis blood. As I recalled, he never had any Mongol teachers, and all his schooling were in Islam and his treaties were with other Turks.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-17-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essay

Soong overthrew Tang dynasty,and certainly take all territory of Tang.Because of Governmental corruption,peasants uprising and Jinn tribe,liao tribe overthrew the government,and emperor flee with officer from Northern China to southern china.
Soong is devided into North Soong and South Soong.

Well, that just proved that they were not Chinese.

wangrui961 · 10-17-2006, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essay

I live and work in Beijing.My grandfather came down from outer-mongolia in 1950s.More exactly he came from Russia.You know Mongolian is the second largest minority in Russia after break up of soviet union.And my grandfather had a Russian wife who gave birth of two chirdren for him.

I must say sorry to a great many chinese who love peace for my acts so casually in the forum.I often us "we" instead of "I",in fact i can't do this.But I think you should forgive me and undestand me--i love China deeply.I am so young and must learn a lot from others.Everyone who is friendly can be my teacher .

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-17-2006, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by essay

He was born in a mongol tribe who was turklized.But he is a mongolian,the descendent of Chai he tai Khan.Who ruled uzbekstain and large part of central asia.

How could you Turklized a Mongol tribe? Turk is a bloodline, not a political system.

essay · 10-17-2006, 11:30 AM

They shared the same root and blood.PLs came to China and Mongolia (both iner and outer)you will find everthing i said is true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Well, that just proved that they were not Chinese.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-17-2006, 11:34 AM

I've been to China and I understand what you're trying to say but what you're not understanding is that the Jinns, Laos, etc, did not replace their rulers. They kicked them out and set up independent kingdoms. That made them distinct from the Soongs or Hans or Tangs. Until Kublai united them all under one banner, they were not one country, let alone one people.

wangrui961 · 10-17-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Ok, I'm a military historian. There is a BIG difference between Mongols and Mongolians in view of the historic context. The Jinns did not consider themselves Han nor Tang. The Ming certainly did not feel Mongols belonged in China. And how long did the rest of China considered the Qing foreign occupiers?

To say they're all Chinese today is fine but back in their time, it is NOT correct to state that they were Chinese. They were not. They were different peoples with different styles of governments with different agendas. If is FROM that perspective that you've got to view things.

To state that the Mongol Empire stretching from Europe to China was a Chinese Empire is false and extremely misleading. If it were so, then why did the Ming and the Poles fought so hard to kick the Mongols out?

Sorry offier ,but as "a military historian" you still not understand what does china and Chinese mean. China does not means Ming or Tang or PRC. So the Ming does not means china too.China consist of Ming and Mongol
that time.Just as the south and north of US in the civil war.

**Officer of Engineers** · 10-17-2006, 11:41 AM

Do you consider Canadians, Australians, British, Irish, and Americans one people?

10-17-2006, 11:16 AM	#123 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 17,064 Country:	Tammerlane was Turkic though he claimed old Genghis blood. As I recalled, he never had any Mongol teachers, and all his schooling were in Islam and his treaties were with other Turks. __________________ Chimo

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10-17-2006, 11:25 AM	#127 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 17,064 Country:	Ok, I'm a military historian. There is a BIG difference between Mongols and Mongolians in view of the historic context. The Jinns did not consider themselves Han nor Tang. The Ming certainly did not feel Mongols belonged in China. And how long did the rest of China considered the Qing foreign occupiers? To say they're all Chinese today is fine but back in their time, it is NOT correct to state that they were Chinese. They were not. They were different peoples with different styles of governments with different agendas. If is FROM that perspective that you've got to view things. To state that the Mongol Empire stretching from Europe to China was a Chinese Empire is false and extremely misleading. If it were so, then why did the Ming and the Poles fought so hard to kick the Mongols out?

10-17-2006, 11:34 AM	#133 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 17,064 Country:	I've been to China and I understand what you're trying to say but what you're not understanding is that the Jinns, Laos, etc, did not replace their rulers. They kicked them out and set up independent kingdoms. That made them distinct from the Soongs or Hans or Tangs. Until Kublai united them all under one banner, they were not one country, let alone one people.

10-17-2006, 11:41 AM	#135 (permalink)
Officer of Engineers *Military Professional* Moderator Scotch taster Join Date: 08-06-03 Posts: 17,064 Country:	Do you consider Canadians, Australians, British, Irish, and Americans one people?

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